The Marvels (2023)
- Thread starter renaissance_man
- Start date
... but he's not a cat.
Bloop
Sr Member
I did get that. My point is that it's a contrivance the writers came up with so that the characters would have to fight hand-to-hand. And it didn't really explain why Kamala was able to go toe-to-toe with Dar-Benn's armed soldiers, when she has no real hand-to-hand combat experience (that I'm aware off).
Also, while I was talking about the movie to my brother (who had seen the whole thing while I was just halfway through), he brought up a good point
He said, "you know how the villain can charge her bracelet by absorbing the Marvels' power? You'd think they'd try that with the other bracelet Kamala has, but you'd be wrong!"
firesprite
Master Member
Look man, it might not seem like a big deal, but Goose is a she, just as her comics counterpart Chewie is a she.
Although the Quantum Bands are a pair I don't think they have identical abilities. Besides if you supercharged Kamala's and Dar Benn then got hold of it, you'd be playing into her hand.
Bloop
Sr Member
It doesn't seem clear that the two bands aren't identical - or at least the film doesn't seem to do a good enough job of presenting that. We see two identical-looking bands, we're told they're a pair, they needed both to fix the problems caused by one, so why wouldn't the heroes think the two might just have the same poweful properties?
And not using a weapon you're in possession of just because you think your enemy might somehow take that weapon from you seems like a bad military tactic. That's like an army refusing to use fire missiles on their enemy while their enemy is destroying them with identical missiles of their own. Why wouldn't Kamala's band at least be able to absorb the energy from Dar-Venn's band, rendering it an impotent weapon? I know we're dealing with mystical, imaginary, sci-fi weapory here, but for the characters to not even think that their band would have the same properties as their enemy's band, and to not even attempt to figure out if they could use it to stop said enemy is another example of the writers ignoring logic in favor of story.
At no point do we see Dar Benn use the Quantum Band she has to create hard light constructs the same way Kamala does, to me that shows their difference.
Dar Benn mostly uses the band she has as an energy source. We see her use it in conjunction with her Universal Weapon to create the extra jumps points. That seemed very clear to me when I watched the film.
Everything was happening very quickly and given the characters were constantly switching places it was hard to even speak to each other for a few minutes before they'd switch. Granted they had time on the ship to practice their ability to switch but they are still dealing with mystical, pretty much legendary objects, it isn't like they came with a manual and exact operating instructions.
I'd say it was a smart move to not over power Kamala's band, you would'nt hook a battery up to the mains and think that's going to give you a super battery. To introduce more instability into an already precarious situation would be foolish.
firesprite
Master Member
In fairness, the hardlight constructs are not something from the band. They're an innate ability that Kamala has as a Noor. The fact that Kamran could also make hardlight constructs in the series confirms that. The bands just unlocked her natural abilities.
cboath
Master Member
You can take it to extremes too. We had 6hiurs of kamala figuring out what she could do with 1, and clearly doesnt know all it can do or how to use it. In india, she did get some fight training, too. Dar ben, on the other hand, seemed to know exactly how to use it the second she saw it.
Bloop
Sr Member
Thanks, good points. Though "some fight training" still shouldn't really be enough for Kamala to defend herself without her powers against a soldier. I suppose one could argue that maybe those soldiers weren't well-trained, but that also seems like a stretch the viewer shouldn't have to make. I know movies & TV have a history of making the "grunt" soldiers be easy to beat, so I shouldn't really expect more from this film.
CB2001
Master Member
He points out the character flaw of Carol not giving a damn about another living creature that has been in her life for what is basically decades in-story, whereas anyone who actually has emotions would be concerned about said animal after a few hours, and all you're focused on is the cat's gender.
firesprite
Master Member
CB2001
Master Member
Aren't jokes typically suppose to include a laughing face like this? XD Or J/k? Just saying, text doesn't give context.
cboath
Master Member
Welcome to the internet
Remember the motto: "Don't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War I got started."
As sad as it is, there are probably people who think this is true.Welcome to the internet
Remember the motto: "Don't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War I got started."
cboath
Master Member
I loved that line the second i heard it in a ps3 commercial
Sadly you could probably convince a lot of people it was a cause if ww1 these says. Critical thinking is an endagered skill.
Solo4114
Master Member
Finally saw this one last night. Overall it was...fine. Better than some made it out to be, but not without its flaws.
First the positive stuff. I think all of the leads were terrific, and are clearly giving solid performances, but the editing of this film really hurt how those performances come across to an audience that isn't really paying attention. SOME of the f/x work was really impressive and cool looking. There are also a bunch of fun ideas scattered through the film that probably would've landed really well if the story had been told differently.
To me, the really big failure of this film seems to have been in the edit. There are a TON of editing problems in this film, and it feels like there's probably another 30-40 minutes worth of filmed content that either never got finished or was dumped, such that the more streamlined film kinda sorta mostly works as a story, but feels rushed and disjointed at some places. Big emotional moments drop from the sky and while they don't feel like they have no antecedent, they don't feel earned within the narrative because there hasn't been enough time to flesh out the story and characters. As a result, the film feels like a coherent outline for the story, but doesn't feel fully fleshed out. That, in turn, leads to moments where it's clear that the actors are performing their roles well...but it's unsupported by the story we've actually seen at this point. Like, they're conveying emotion in a way that, taken in isolation, is believable if you assume context...but the film hasn't give us that context, so it seems weird.
As evidence, one of the things my wife and I noticed was that you'd jump from scene to scene and now people are wearing different clothing with zero explanation or sense of transition. It's just whoops, hey, guess we're in a new scene now... There are occasional references to stuff that either happened so briefly or...maybe didn't actually happen(?)...that the new beat the film is trying to hit feels out of left field. As an example, I get the sense that Kamala and Carol had a much bigger showdown after the Skrull planet was destroyed, but that got cut. There's maybe one or two lines about...something with Carol scolding Kamala or whatever? And then in a later scene, Carol is apologizing to her and it just feels weird and out of place. Similarly, there's the sequence where Carol and Monica are fixing the ship and they have this big heart-to-heart discussion that doesn't really end in a way that feels resolved...and then we're on to another sequence where Kamala is introducing herself to Carol after they "start over" and she's fangirling all over the place and Monica is just smiling on in the background...and WTF? Wasn't she just chewing Carol out? Wasn't she just super pissed at her? Why is she now like "Aww, you're fangirling! Have fun, kiddo." That seems really out of place. Again, it feels like there are scenes that are missing here. Then you get the battle on the water/Bollywood planet (the destruction of which is ultimately implied but not shown), and Kamala again has some reference to her making a call, and it's probably meant to be this big emotional moment of Kamala growing up and integrating with the team...but it just doesn't land because too much other stuff has been chopped out.
Then there are other things that may be sloppy, like how the bangles work, and a sequence where Kamala uses her power WITHOUT THE BANGLE (wtf? She can do that?! I thought the bangle was what gave her her powers?!) to scoop up Carol and, apparently, the two bangles which I could have sworn were floating farther away from her, and now they're back on the ship, only now Kamala is back to wearing only one bangle because reasons and WTF?! Like, all of that stuff is just sloppiness which, again, may be explained in a different edit or the script or whatever, but it just feels...weirdly out of place here.
If I had to guess one or more things are the cause here:
1. Studio/exec interference and "auteurship." This may have been a more coherent, more consistent film, but some idiot exec got hold of it and cut out a bunch of stuff to focus more on the action and keep the pace brisk because they felt it "dragged" at points. They didn't care about reshooting stuff that might otherwise be jarring (e.g., random costume changes, Kamala wearing one bangle or two or none or whatever and still having powers), and just figured audiences would accept it. I accepted it up to a point, but I did notice the flaws.
2. The script was never really finished. There are a ton of sequences in here that are good in and of themselves, but they aren't stitched together effectively, and that makes me think stuff was filmed and the theory was just "We'll fix it in post," but they never really did. So a disjointed script that's a collection of entertaining vignettes gets thrown together, and the edit can't save it because it's still too disjointed. Nobody cares, though, because they're on deadline and they assume audiences are morons anyway who won't notice this stuff and only care about multicolored explosions.
3. A bunch of stuff was filmed, but required waaaaaaaaaay too much of an f/x budget, so rough-cut scenes never got finished and had to be dumped. In other words, there's a fully shot story, but not a fully finished story because of the lack of f/x due to budget constraints.
I'd bet it's actually a combination of some of these. But the end result was a film that was, you know, fine, but not really great. It felt shaky the whole way thru, including the ending and the post-credit. The whole thing just comes across as unsteady, but like there's actually a really good story hiding in scraps on an editing room floor or unfinished on a hard drive. It's a shame, because, again, the individual scenes are fine, even good in isolation, but they don't knit together well.
As for the rest of it (the "woke blah blah blargity blarg") stuff, that crap's nonsense and not the problem here. The problem here, as I see it, is money and time, and a mismanagement of both. It's got zip to do with woke anything.
First the positive stuff. I think all of the leads were terrific, and are clearly giving solid performances, but the editing of this film really hurt how those performances come across to an audience that isn't really paying attention. SOME of the f/x work was really impressive and cool looking. There are also a bunch of fun ideas scattered through the film that probably would've landed really well if the story had been told differently.
To me, the really big failure of this film seems to have been in the edit. There are a TON of editing problems in this film, and it feels like there's probably another 30-40 minutes worth of filmed content that either never got finished or was dumped, such that the more streamlined film kinda sorta mostly works as a story, but feels rushed and disjointed at some places. Big emotional moments drop from the sky and while they don't feel like they have no antecedent, they don't feel earned within the narrative because there hasn't been enough time to flesh out the story and characters. As a result, the film feels like a coherent outline for the story, but doesn't feel fully fleshed out. That, in turn, leads to moments where it's clear that the actors are performing their roles well...but it's unsupported by the story we've actually seen at this point. Like, they're conveying emotion in a way that, taken in isolation, is believable if you assume context...but the film hasn't give us that context, so it seems weird.
As evidence, one of the things my wife and I noticed was that you'd jump from scene to scene and now people are wearing different clothing with zero explanation or sense of transition. It's just whoops, hey, guess we're in a new scene now... There are occasional references to stuff that either happened so briefly or...maybe didn't actually happen(?)...that the new beat the film is trying to hit feels out of left field. As an example, I get the sense that Kamala and Carol had a much bigger showdown after the Skrull planet was destroyed, but that got cut. There's maybe one or two lines about...something with Carol scolding Kamala or whatever? And then in a later scene, Carol is apologizing to her and it just feels weird and out of place. Similarly, there's the sequence where Carol and Monica are fixing the ship and they have this big heart-to-heart discussion that doesn't really end in a way that feels resolved...and then we're on to another sequence where Kamala is introducing herself to Carol after they "start over" and she's fangirling all over the place and Monica is just smiling on in the background...and WTF? Wasn't she just chewing Carol out? Wasn't she just super pissed at her? Why is she now like "Aww, you're fangirling! Have fun, kiddo." That seems really out of place. Again, it feels like there are scenes that are missing here. Then you get the battle on the water/Bollywood planet (the destruction of which is ultimately implied but not shown), and Kamala again has some reference to her making a call, and it's probably meant to be this big emotional moment of Kamala growing up and integrating with the team...but it just doesn't land because too much other stuff has been chopped out.
Then there are other things that may be sloppy, like how the bangles work, and a sequence where Kamala uses her power WITHOUT THE BANGLE (wtf? She can do that?! I thought the bangle was what gave her her powers?!) to scoop up Carol and, apparently, the two bangles which I could have sworn were floating farther away from her, and now they're back on the ship, only now Kamala is back to wearing only one bangle because reasons and WTF?! Like, all of that stuff is just sloppiness which, again, may be explained in a different edit or the script or whatever, but it just feels...weirdly out of place here.
If I had to guess one or more things are the cause here:
1. Studio/exec interference and "auteurship." This may have been a more coherent, more consistent film, but some idiot exec got hold of it and cut out a bunch of stuff to focus more on the action and keep the pace brisk because they felt it "dragged" at points. They didn't care about reshooting stuff that might otherwise be jarring (e.g., random costume changes, Kamala wearing one bangle or two or none or whatever and still having powers), and just figured audiences would accept it. I accepted it up to a point, but I did notice the flaws.
2. The script was never really finished. There are a ton of sequences in here that are good in and of themselves, but they aren't stitched together effectively, and that makes me think stuff was filmed and the theory was just "We'll fix it in post," but they never really did. So a disjointed script that's a collection of entertaining vignettes gets thrown together, and the edit can't save it because it's still too disjointed. Nobody cares, though, because they're on deadline and they assume audiences are morons anyway who won't notice this stuff and only care about multicolored explosions.
3. A bunch of stuff was filmed, but required waaaaaaaaaay too much of an f/x budget, so rough-cut scenes never got finished and had to be dumped. In other words, there's a fully shot story, but not a fully finished story because of the lack of f/x due to budget constraints.
I'd bet it's actually a combination of some of these. But the end result was a film that was, you know, fine, but not really great. It felt shaky the whole way thru, including the ending and the post-credit. The whole thing just comes across as unsteady, but like there's actually a really good story hiding in scraps on an editing room floor or unfinished on a hard drive. It's a shame, because, again, the individual scenes are fine, even good in isolation, but they don't knit together well.
As for the rest of it (the "woke blah blah blargity blarg") stuff, that crap's nonsense and not the problem here. The problem here, as I see it, is money and time, and a mismanagement of both. It's got zip to do with woke anything.
Mostly agree... the big issue is plot/scene incoherence plus what seems to be an unwillingness to really deal with the ramifications of Carol's actions in a serious way.
Carol sparked a civil war that probably killed millions, if a planet or 2 was lost it might be billions. They dealt some with her guilt and feelings about this, but really they should have done a lot more. Kamala should have her worldview shattered by this. It does seem like they wrote or filmed more. Perhaps they thought it too much a downer and the studio wanted an upbeat girl power team movie. I do think studios are still kind of allergic to treating comic books like they deserve to be a "serious" movie when it comes to the inner journey of characters.
I'm pretty sure it was explained in the Ms Marvel series that Kamala's powers originated from her ancestry, allowing her access to the Noor, the Bangle simply triggered this unlocking/activation of her mutant gene which was mentioned by her friend Bruno. I think the Bangle may also act as an energy source for Kamala. In short she has powers without the Bangle.
