Terminator: Genisys

[Bigdaddy]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I couldn't read all post, but what I think would needed to do:

1. Forget T3 and T4

2. Go back to the source T1 + T2

3. Take the strength of story-telling from TSCC and some elements, like the development of JC, how he accepted his fate, etc.

4. Start from the future war, let JC tell in an OV, how this have been so far to 2021 to keep an option for the final T6 movie set in 2027 and take the concept of T1 never realized, the room of Termies with Arnold's face and how JC sends Reese back, that'll be a great end
(i.e. "…since my mother told me about the future, it has been in a constant state of flux, things have turned out differently, I remember things, that never happend and yet for me, it's been so clear that it can't be a dream… Not like those nightmares my mother and father had from the future. The nature of time are as unpredictable as Skynet's next move, and still… my fate and the fate of humanity are set.")

5. Most important: stick to what Reese said about the old Termies 600 Series: human sized, rubber/silicone skin like in TSCC. Keep all Skynet hardware like in the Future War dreams, no Harvester and stuff that the hack McG wanted

6. Geez, cast someone, who at least looks like Michael Edwards, the original Connor of T2, but a bit younger

This is a cool idea, I just watched Terminator and T2 for the 1st time in years (my daughter's 1st time seeing either) I saw T3 a long time ago but was really disappointed so I never bothered with 4. I doubt the formula you described would be attempted again though (remember Superman Returns?), as mass audiences don't seem to go for the whole "forget what we said before" notion. :lol
Edit: Arnold should forget about playing an "ageless" machine and get busy swinging a sword again!

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

This is a cool idea, I just watched Terminator and T2 for the 1st time in years (my daughter's 1st time seeing either) I saw T3 a long time ago but was really disappointed so I never bothered with 4. I doubt the formula you described would be attempted again though (remember Superman Returns?), as mass audiences don't seem to go for the whole "forget what we said before" notion. :lol

Well, Terminator is one of those franchises where you actually CAN do that, seeing as it's time travel and alternate timeline movies. You don't even need to say "forget what we said before"... you can just say: "we will continue the T1(-T2) timeline, the other movies are just other timelines...".

Problem solved and no need for rebooting anything.

 

[Bigdaddy]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Well, Terminator is one of those franchises where you actually CAN do that, seeing as it's time travel and alternate timeline movies. You don't even need to say "forget what we said before"... you can just say: "we will continue the T1(-T2) timeline, the other movies are just other timelines...".

Problem solved and no need for rebooting anything.

I agree :thumbsup, it's one of the great aspects of time travel stories, however I doubt the studio would see it that way, nor the mass audience that wants "cooler" machines:facepalm

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I agree :thumbsup, it's one of the great aspects of time travel stories, however I doubt the studio would see it that way, nor the mass audience that wants "cooler" machines:facepalm

Yeah, that's the whole problem right there. The T-800 is supposed to be the top of the line - the best Skynet has produced. All the other machines are, as Reese put it, not very bright. The T-800 is the height of Skynet warfare at the end of the war and it still doesn't save it from being overrun - which is the whole point of the time displacement device and that desperate plan to wipe out Connor in the past.

The sequels just kills the drama and importance of the piece.

 

[Jamie Staff]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I still say the first film, stands up against any of the of sequels. What I'd love to see is Reese's / Cameron's future war, starting with Connor's rise to power the battle with the terminators and then, into their Skynet strong hold and the final fight that see's Reese stepping trough time.... Then a re-masted NOT remade T1, with a cgi "cleanup" not replacement of the stop motion bit etc...... That is what Salvation promised but DID NOT deliver......

 

[Bigdaddy]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I still say the first film, stands up against any of the of sequels. What I'd love to see is Reese's / Cameron's future war, starting with Connor's rise to power the battle with the terminators and then, into their Skynet strong hold and the final fight that see's Reese stepping trough time....

Yeah, then end it with a cleaned up clip from the 1st film of Arnold arriving in 1984 and the original score coming up. :thumbsup

 

[batguy]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Before we tear too deeply into ALL the sequels . . .


Cameron has said that the liquid-metal Terminator was originally dreamed up to be the second half of the first movie. (Of course budget & SFX limitations killed the idea until the 2nd movie.) The T-800 was to be defeated by Reese partway through the movie. Then Skynet would send back the T-1000. He was picturing the T-1000 as last resort that they were scared to even unleash.

It's also well known that Cameron was picturing Lance Henriksen to play the T-800 for a more normal-looking human cover. The studio forced him to have a meeting with Arnold for the Reese role and they ended up casting him as the T-800 as a result of that.

------------


I would agree that the final cut of T1 portrays the T-800 as the newest scariest monster in Skynet's arsenal. The fist movie shows no signs that Cameron planned on ever following the T-800 with anything scarier.

But I'm saying the T-800 was never the scariest Terminator that Cameron had dreamed up. Even in 1983 he was thinking beyond the brute-force abilities of the T-800 towards something more evolved.

The idea of a lower-profile-looking evil Terminator, the idea of Arnold playing the good guy, the idea of a liquid metal T-1000 being scarier than either Arnold or the T-800 . . . Add it all up. The major elements of the T2 match-up were already being spoken out loud during development of the first movie.


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[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Yes, which is why, in part, T2 is accepted as a working sequel. It just butts heads with the first movie in its narrative, which is why it isn't perfect and can be discarded.

 

[Atomic Punk]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

I went through and watched all 4 movies again recently.

The 1st one in my mind is a perfect movie. The second one was really good--especially when the scenes cut out of the theatrical version were added back in on the DVD. The 3rd one was just plain and simple, a bad movie done by hacks. Lazy writing that retconned elements of 1 and 2 that were perfect, too many callbacks, and bad, bad attempts at comedy. I liked the ending when it appeared that Judgement Day was actually happening and the revelation that Crystal Peak was a 60's fallout shelter for Continuity of Government. I thought, OK this movie sucked but Future War is coming next. I was so excited. They didn't need Arnold anymore just show the Future War as Kyle decribed in T1. Then...nothing.

Finally T:S came out and as outlined here, the whole development was a mess due to bad decisions made by the retards at Halcyon. I rolled my eyes through the whole thing and walked out of the theater shaking my head. It made no sense from beginning to end. I was so confused by that movie that I had to watch it again to see what I missed. There was so much going on, I figured there was stuff that was cut out to squeeze in another showing per day and to make it PG-13 to sell toys, and I just needed to see the full Director's Cut and watch the additional material and it might make more sense. Well, I finally did that and realized, no, Its just a cluster f&ck of a movie. The only thing I got out of the Director's Cut was Moon Bloodgood's t!tties, and even that scene made no sense....sigh.

Unless they start over again as if T3 and T:S were never made, I don't see how it is salvageable. Maybe, a new set of movies based on the T:SCC but I don't see Hollywood doing that. The show was just not popular enough.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

T:S came out and as outlined here, the whole development was a mess due to bad decisions made by the retards at Halcyon

It was worse in the green lighted filming script. Common's character was pretty much a pimp (no joke he had topless ladies in a mini harem), there was an army of Terminator Endo's building countrysides and laying astro turf down right over human skulls, T800 golf caddies (ive said this in the same thread previously but really T800 golf caddies) and a slew of other hilarious acid trip visuals its a wonder how those writers keep getting work.

Unfortunately, again being a broken record since many dont read prior posts, whats missing is the actual story and plot being time travel and future technology being sent back via Marcus. That leaves the Connor's and anyone directly related through the futures past history as any potential side mission for Marcus.

Pay attention and watch TS again, you will see three versions of Marcus clear as day.
Marcus 1: human and executed.
Marcus 2: dead and on the table at the films opening then blown up in a nuclear blast. Also pay attention that the T800 is now in the computer files a full ten+ years too soon.
Marcus 3: shows up the night following the opening nuclear explosion at the exact location. This is the Marcus we follow through the film.

Marcus is an advanced infiltration prototype being a mix of human and machine. He is given free will with no knowledge of what he is. He is constantly driven by an urge to go North when he is told by Kyle there is nothing there, its Skynet Central, yet he keeps going North. Reason is his mission is to upload the future technology files to the Skynet computer. When Blaire says "Connor will know a way" or whatever Marcus instantly snaps his head and says "how far is your base?". His mission has now changed from uploading files to information on Connor. Its not to kill him, just gain intel then continue to upload the files to Skynet.

There is footage and stills to back much of this up including other hybrids and original footage that was reshot around Helena Bonham Carter.

The time travel and future technology plot is still visible when you know what to look for and was a brilliant idea that was abandoned as the film started to go well over its already over inflated $200 mil final budget. There must be a good hour of missing footage somewhere.

I believe it was also in this thread where people had words with me over the set future end all time date where time travel catches up to the end of the world. There is no traveling to the future, only the past. When the time machine is blown up, thats the end time date as the past permanently catches up to the future. Whatever changes that were made will not alter or change the end date. However, as seen in every single Terminator film, the past can be altered and changed but the end results are inevitable. Nukes will drop, wars will happen, the end of the world is locked and sealed.

Watch TS again with what you just read and a sequel would possibly be the second best Terminator film. Not the proposed McG version where Connor travels to 1990's era England but a full on time travel mind hump, the future war everyone wants that leads into the discovery of hybrids and future technology leading to information on a time machine...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

We have read your synopsis before, there is just nothing of that visible in the movie. It just isn't there. And the movie just isn't good enough to bother go digging for glimpses and bits and pieces of it. There is no way T:S in any way connects to the Future War as seen in T1 and even T2 - just not possible, because T:S builds on T3 which was just an abnormal train wreck of crap.

There is no end date. There is no catching up. There is no time travel mind hump. And personally... anyone thinking that time travel is essential in a terminator movie is missing the point. Skynet built the time travel displacement unit to send the terminator back in time and the resistance blew it up. It's GONE. Sure, it could be re-developed in the future... but there is no indications of that making the one Skynet built a blind luck fluke.

If things can be changed, then there is no such thing as inevitability. That's H.G.Wells kind of outdated logic... that really isn't all that logic to begin with. Only T1 got it right by no change being possible at all.

 

[airair]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

there is simply no way they can rescue this series in terms of giving legitimacy and credibility in the fans eyes.

The damage has been done and its too much to overcome. The fact they put out a TV show, 2 crappy sequels (T3 and TS) and diluted the "Big screen" showcase, shows that its all about money at the end of the day.

In terms of Terminator now, Money comes first, then the actors, then the story (well, if you can call hack writing a script!)

There is just no point in taking things further with this series.

T3 bastardised everything, right down to the shambolic disgrace of the soundtrack score, disregarding the themes of Brad Fiedel, then TS took things further by going kid friendly PG.

Sorry, but you can't save a series after that downward spiral!

Some things are only made to last a certain time, and in my opinion, Terminator lasted from 1984 to 1991 and that was enough for everyone.

Sure, after another 10 years, they might want to reboot it, but really, sooner or later, those people in charge need to take a chance on new ideas and scripts.

 

[Bigdaddy]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Reading this thread has made me really glad I never saw Salvation, and confirmed I won't see the next one. I'll stick with Terminator, like Highlander, it's a movie that never needed a sequal. :thumbsup

 

[Atomic Punk]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Rob, I do appreciate your info as it does help make sense of the mess that was on screen. I just read the 3 T2 novels (they take place after T2) and it seems that Brancato and Ferris' scripts took some of those ideas and I am reading the official T:S spinoff novels for additional background on the characters. The official film novelization differs from the screen which just shows they were making changes right up until the movie release.

I really should just let it go but can't. I am just too caught up (my wife would say obsessed) with the first movies and want to know everything I can about the official storyline--even if it has become crap.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

We have read your synopsis before, there is just nothing of that visible in the movie. It just isn't there.

It is completely visible in the final theatrical cut. You just have to watch it unbiased and accept it.

As mentioned the multiple Marcus', his drive to go north, the T800 and future technology being here far too soon, hybrids and not just Marcus were cast, filmed and even seen in on set photographs (even the original trailer had alternate footage from the hybrid scenes) as well as hybrid and human scientists which are visible in the film (dark figures looking down from above in the human cattle scene as Kyle grabs the piece of metal), Marcus' unexplained knowledge of Skynets location, its interior and computer system, even the sentry robots allow him in as Skynet is aware of his mission, its all there in the cut of the film you have seen.

In fact, you should know about this already:
Hope Of The Future - Terminator Salvation deleted scenes - Hybrids at Skynet Central
Hope Of The Future - Terminator Salvation deleted scenes - Hybrid Male (Greg Plitt)
Hope Of The Future - Terminator Salvation deleted scenes - Hybrid Serena

Also dont forget, again as prior mentioned, Kate is preggers yet thats completely edited out and discarded as much as possible, yet its still visible in the film as well as the original trailer. Thats John Connor Jr.
Hope Of The Future - Terminator Salvation deleted scenes - Extended goodbye John/Kate

And the reshoots that were rushed to change the final cut to what it became abandoning the time travel, hybrids and pregnancy:
Hope Of The Future - Terminator Salvation deleted scenes - The reshoots of Terminator Salvation

Were talking films, not comics, books or such. The script again was a total joke. What ended up being filmed vs the final cut vs the script are three separate stories interlinked together.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Actually... there is nothing to accept, as it wasn't presented in the film in any way that it was made clear to the viewer. If you have to go outside the source to find the answers and possibly spot a little of it here and there, then it's a fail.

I honestly don't understand your obsession with T:S. It's a mediocre film that pretty much craps on the original, by continuing from that abomination called T3 and introducing even more illogical and completely unneeded and overly complicated crap. It's the sign of a bad writer and director who cannot stick to what has been established, but has to basically **** everything up, because they cannot create suspense on something already known. It's lazy and it's honestly ****-poor writing.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Its no obsession, just the fact the film your refusing to accept is there.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

It wasn't there when I watched it that one time... still can't see how it's worth spending so much time on something that wasn't clear on screen. All I saw was a bunch of nonsense introduced for no reason.

It still doesn't link to the future as seen in T1... so any continuation of the T:S story would just bring things further from seeing that accurately portrayed. Which has been my point the whole time. Ignore 3 and 4 and you have free reign to play without having to worry about inconsistencies introduced in those movies.

 

[robstyle]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

so you have only watched TS once and not again with the new information?

In regards to "bringing things accurately portrayed", even the time line in T1 went out the window when T2 came into play. TS set out to be party one of a trilogy yet ended up a dead end in the final edit. The final edit does nothing and goes nowhere, ive said that before. T3 was just all out terrible from its plot to its cinematography just from the ground up a horrible movie. Regardless it exists and films are not made for a select group of fan boys. They are made for a mass audience that are herd into expecting mindless dribble for a couple hours. A great example of a movie that is simple to follow yet many viewers, even the critics claimed was confusing is Southland Tales. Its a really damn good film but not mindless drone material as thats whats appealing to the masses. Sad but true.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

re: Terminator 5 (Reboot)

Yes, guilty. If it comes up on the telly or Netflix I may sit down and watch it again, but I ain't going to buy that piece of turd leftover.

And yeah, which is usually why I say, forget all sequels (including T2) and just do the future war properly. And it CAN be an exciting movie made for mass audiences without introducing idiotic plot points, twists and inaccuracies. Reese told the story of things to come in T1, and the complaint that people don't want to go see movies where they know what's going to happen is just totally misplaced - just look at any movies adapted from popular books, any historical movie, anything where the events are known prior to actually seeing the movie. A movie CAN be made exciting even when people know exactly what's going to happen.

Terminator isn't this high floating philosophical piece or mind-wrecking mystery. It's a survival and war story. It's just nothing but lame excuses not to do it right.