SW Acolyte in a tail spin

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I came to the Acolyte thread stating that episodes 1 and 2 were great! A strong start to the series.

Then I watches the first 8 minutes of episode 3, fast forwarded to the last 8 minutes and then skipped 4, 5, 6 and 7. I only watched 8 to see how it ended.

Which was another dumb take with, “The good one is now bad and the bad one is now good!”

Plus, the Jedi are evil and do horrible things.

That can’t be racist hate as I’m a white man who’s never been with a white woman. I prefer women of color.
 
Sanctimonious actors who dictate their moral superiority have no leg to stand on when the company they work for has literally killed people, wrongfully terminated their own workers, and lied to it's shareholders.

Look, no company is perfect, but what other industry gets away with constant admonitions about ethics towards the public when their business is non-essential? Hollywood continues to get a pass because the scolding comes from beautiful people who are so isolated by their wealth that they're detached from reality.

They just can't handle being held to task, despite every service industry in the world being dependent on good customer relations. They're finally having to reap what they sow, and they simply can't handle it, so they fabricate any excuse to justify the failure of their creative works, instead of trying to do better.
 
How did I wander back into Harold Q. Palpatine’s favorite RPF thread??

 
The problem is there is a group out there that spews this garbage seemingly any time there is a remote hint of anything they deem dei in star wars. They arent fans, so i dont think they should use the term toxic fans. Maybe toxic trolls. Regardless, they ars there and they are loud. Given that, it gives the studio a built in crutch for anything that goes wrong. They have gotten to the point of almost using that crutch before release. The second the first hint of the trolls arises.

Now, the problem supporters of wanting s2 have is that even if you buy the premise that the trolls kept people away, this a show than ran 7 weeks and in that span, it lost 25-30% of the viewers that showed up week 1. That is a big loss and one that tends to get cancelation. How many shows lose that many and survive? I cant imagine any unless week 1 was mindbogglingly high numbers.

I also wouldnt call wanting some diversity sending a political message either. Society wasnt single color in the 70s. Yet in a galaxy where there were more aliens than anyone had ever seen before - all the humans were single color. Sure lando in esb, but not before. But everyone was just fine with that. Everyone is still fine with that as well.

Look at it from another perspective. If they remade anh today, with no story changes, but picked say someone who was a poc as han...people would flip out. There would be no discussion on if he was the best actor they saw or not. People would call it dei and trash it from the second it was announced until after it left theaters. Now, not everyone would flip out but there would be a loud segment spewing hate on it.

So what do you do? You should make the best movie you can and stand on the results. The acolyte loses on that premise. I saw someone make this comment...rogue one, arguably the best sw movie disney put out...female lead, mainly poc as the cast. No dei whining, and it pulled a billion iirc. Caveat is that it did dei before anyone considered it a 4 letter word, but still. It illustrates the point...make the best thing you can and let your work speak for itself. People shouting the hate from the rooftops though, will have an effect. It will keep anyone who is anti dei from watching. It can keep people on the fence from watching. That hurts things. But nothing hurts more than having a third of your audience opt out in 7 weeks. Hate being screamed doesnt do that. People not liking what they see does that.
 
Step 1, make it not suck. 2 stop bashing the fans on purpose. 3 stop breaking canon on purpose. 4 stop creating mystery box cliffhangers that you never intend to complete or reveal. 5 follow up with making all the already created sequel books into movies, the ones from before Disney that were all approved by George and that everyone accepted as the actual story.... before moving forward. 6 stop acting like no other human races or genders ever got to be in Star Wars prior to Disney, Leah and Mon Mothma were the $#$%^$'n leaders of the rebellion. Lando, the leader of Cloud City and on and on and on blablabla. This caustic ignorance that says look over here there are these 8 people who are haters look look look at these 8 people..... and that is their answer every time they are proven undeniably wrong. They go right back to "well, I am not sure about all that but I would like to instead hyper focus on this old thing already proven wrong, look look 8 haters right over there... see em?" Those that do this have the same stink of outside influence as does the purposely driving the stock price down. Much like all the fake reviews on products online, paid pundits, paid reviewers. No logic just flush and repeat. Salted audience full of paid influencers.

And since this thread seems to be finally attracting those from the closed acolyte thread, I will wander off to a different thread so you can all listen to the flush and repeat that is about to post after this.
 
It's all just so sad how Disney have undertaken developing their Star Wars asset. It's practically impossible for every movie/show to be a hit regardless of it's history and it's not like they didn't try. I'm a firm believer that SW should have never been TV, it's just too epic for that week in-week out drama fest, soap opera approach.

Still, with most of Mando and most of Endor being watchable, there's still hope....;)

Screenshot 2024-08-31 101125.jpg
 
Psab keel said:
Sanctimonious actors who dictate their moral superiority have no leg to stand on when the company they work for has literally killed people, wrongfully terminated their own workers, and lied to it's shareholders.

Look, no company is perfect, but what other industry gets away with constant admonitions about ethics towards the public when their business is non-essential? Hollywood continues to get a pass because the scolding comes from beautiful people who are so isolated by their wealth that they're detached from reality.

They just can't handle being held to task, despite every service industry in the world being dependent on good customer relations. They're finally having to reap what they sow, and they simply can't handle it, so they fabricate any excuse to justify the failure of their creative works, instead of trying to do better.
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It's basically holding a vaudeville show that preaches their chosen "moral stance" upon a soapbox made from a used WMD carton.
 
cboath said:
The problem is there is a group out there that spews this garbage seemingly any time there is a remote hint of anything they deem dei in star wars. They arent fans, so i dont think they should use the term toxic fans. Maybe toxic trolls. Regardless, they ars there and they are loud. Given that, it gives the studio a built in crutch for anything that goes wrong. They have gotten to the point of almost using that crutch before release. The second the first hint of the trolls arises.

Now, the problem supporters of wanting s2 have is that even if you buy the premise that the trolls kept people away, this a show than ran 7 weeks and in that span, it lost 25-30% of the viewers that showed up week 1. That is a big loss and one that tends to get cancelation. How many shows lose that many and survive? I cant imagine any unless week 1 was mindbogglingly high numbers.

I also wouldnt call wanting some diversity sending a political message either. Society wasnt single color in the 70s. Yet in a galaxy where there were more aliens than anyone had ever seen before - all the humans were single color. Sure lando in esb, but not before. But everyone was just fine with that. Everyone is still fine with that as well.

Look at it from another perspective. If they remade anh today, with no story changes, but picked say someone who was a poc as han...people would flip out. There would be no discussion on if he was the best actor they saw or not. People would call it dei and trash it from the second it was announced until after it left theaters. Now, not everyone would flip out but there would be a loud segment spewing hate on it.

So what do you do? You should make the best movie you can and stand on the results. The acolyte loses on that premise. I saw someone make this comment...rogue one, arguably the best sw movie disney put out...female lead, mainly poc as the cast. No dei whining, and it pulled a billion iirc. Caveat is that it did dei before anyone considered it a 4 letter word, but still. It illustrates the point...make the best thing you can and let your work speak for itself. People shouting the hate from the rooftops though, will have an effect. It will keep anyone who is anti dei from watching. It can keep people on the fence from watching. That hurts things. But nothing hurts more than having a third of your audience opt out in 7 weeks. Hate being screamed doesnt do that. People not liking what they see does that.
Click to expand...

In your example, if they remade A New Hope, the criticism would be there's no need to remake a nearly perfect movie. No reason whatsoever, other than greed. Remaking a poorly received movie is one thing. Remaking the most iconic/ world changing film ever made is naturally going to invite comparisons, especially given the fact almost 50 years on, it's just as prevalent in the zeitgeist as it ever was. Star Wars changed everything. It's indisputable.

Regardless of the ethnicity of the new actor portraying Han in this hypothetical remake, fans would fairly/ unfairly judge the actor's performance because the signifigance of the original film is larger than than of an ordinary movie. Besides, Alden Ehrinrech was lambasted by fans and critics alike, while Donald Glover as Lando was almost universally praised by both, which proves race has nothing to do with the criticisms no matter how small, or how legitimate. So the excuse that some sort of undefined hate is the cause of the failures of corporate decisions is insane.

These people work in the service industry. If their product or service sucks, they either improve both, or they lose business. Blaming customers never works. Ever.
 
Psab keel said:
In your example, if they remade A New Hope, the criticism would be there's no need to remake a nearly perfect movie. No reason whatsoever, other than greed. Remaking a poorly received movie is one thing. Remaking the most iconic/ world changing film ever made is naturally going to invite comparisons, especially given the fact almost 50 years on, it's just as prevalent in the zeitgeist as it ever was. Star Wars changed everything. It's indisputable.

Regardless of the ethnicity of the new actor portraying Han in this hypothetical remake, fans would fairly/ unfairly judge the actor's performance because the signifigance of the original film is larger than than of an ordinary movie. Besides, Alden Ehrinrech was lambasted by fans and critics alike, while Donald Glover as Lando was almost universally praised by both, which proves race has nothing to do with the criticisms no matter how small, or how legitimate. So the excuse that some sort of undefined hate is the cause of the failures of corporate decisions is insane.

These people work in the service industry. If their product or service sucks, they either improve both, or they lose business. Blaming customers never works. Ever.
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I think they used a lot more care in choosing a young Lando than they did a young Han. Alden just wasn't right for Han; he lacked the qualities even though he kind of bore a resemblance to him. Donald was spot-on as Lando because he nailed all the things that make Lando who he is, even as a young man.

If anyone wants to see how to update/ do your own version right, look no further than the Refit Enterprise. Enough familiariy was kept to ensure she was accepted as the rebuilt 1701, but intelligently laid out and even improved. The same applies to younger versions of characters: keep enough to ensure that it's still the same character, but in this case, make sure the "backdating" makes canonical and logical sense.
 
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Psab keel said:
In your example, if they remade A New Hope, the criticism would be there's no need to remake a nearly perfect movie. No reason whatsoever, other than greed. Remaking a poorly received movie is one thing. Remaking the most iconic/ world changing film ever made is naturally going to invite comparisons, especially given the fact almost 50 years on, it's just as prevalent in the zeitgeist as it ever was. Star Wars changed everything. It's indisputable.

Regardless of the ethnicity of the new actor portraying Han in this hypothetical remake, fans would fairly/ unfairly judge the actor's performance because the signifigance of the original film is larger than than of an ordinary movie. Besides, Alden Ehrinrech was lambasted by fans and critics alike, while Donald Glover as Lando was almost universally praised by both, which proves race has nothing to do with the criticisms no matter how small, or how legitimate. So the excuse that some sort of undefined hate is the cause of the failures of corporate decisions is insane.

These people work in the service industry. If their product or service sucks, they either improve both, or they lose business. Blaming customers never works. Ever.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong. Solo was around the time this type of stuff blew up though. However, people can't really complain about DEI type stuff when you cast Donald Glover as Lando, can they? It'd be a much bigger outrage had they cast Chris Pratt as Lando.

The point was, we know it was a perfect movie so we know what we would get getting would be good - that part wouldn't matter, the same people would focus on something they can use to trash it simply to trash it.

That's the world today. There's a loud mouthed group of people full of hate for some reason and they take every opportunity to spew it from the mountaintop because, somewhere not too long ago, it somehow became acceptable behavior to those people. It's going to be very hard to get that genie back in the bottle, but I hope to see the day that we do.
 
cboath said:
You're not wrong. Solo was around the time this type of stuff blew up though. However, people can't really complain about DEI type stuff when you cast Donald Glover as Lando, can they? It'd be a much bigger outrage had they cast Chris Pratt as Lando.

The point was, we know it was a perfect movie so we know what we would get getting would be good - that part wouldn't matter, the same people would focus on something they can use to trash it simply to trash it.

That's the world today. There's a loud mouthed group of people full of hate for some reason and they take every opportunity to spew it from the mountaintop because, somewhere not too long ago, it somehow became acceptable behavior to those people. It's going to be very hard to get that genie back in the bottle, but I hope to see the day that we do.
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Any white-canon-character can be re-casted by another creed in another series (n)(n):mad::mad: But the DEI ones are untouchable :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
cboath said:
You're not wrong. Solo was around the time this type of stuff blew up though. However, people can't really complain about DEI type stuff when you cast Donald Glover as Lando, can they? It'd be a much bigger outrage had they cast Chris Pratt as Lando.

The point was, we know it was a perfect movie so we know what we would get getting would be good - that part wouldn't matter, the same people would focus on something they can use to trash it simply to trash it.

That's the world today. There's a loud mouthed group of people full of hate for some reason and they take every opportunity to spew it from the mountaintop because, somewhere not too long ago, it somehow became acceptable behavior to those people. It's going to be very hard to get that genie back in the bottle, but I hope to see the day that we do.
Click to expand...

By our very nature human beings are awful to each other. That's a given. My point was the legitimate criticism ( in this example remaking ANH) is the bad idea of the remake itself, not the casting (no matter who they cast.) Racists will be racists. That's like saying the sky is blue because it states the obvious. We can easily dismiss those opinions because we know they're wrong.

Acknowledging them emboldens them. Ignoring them robs them of their invectives.
 
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Psab keel said:
By our very nature human beings are awful to each other. That's a given. My point was the legitimate criticism ( in this example remaking ANH) is the bad idea of the remake itself, not the casting (no matter who they cast.) Racists will be racists. That's like saying the sky is blue because it states the obvious. We can easily dismiss those opinions because we know they're wrong.
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The bot has no end to the flush and repeat function. The response will be "the haters" while the use of the same phrase purposely spreads hate. There is no real discussion happening just a fully automated response "the haters". It is the same as talking about flat-earthers when you know it has nothing to do with the masses. You say your part and the response comes back "but the flat earthers ....." but I wasn't talking about flat earthers.... response "ya but the flat earthers wow". I have had similar discussions while playing online games. Flush and repeat, logic will not solve this.
 
greenmachines said:
The bot has no end to the flush and repeat function. The response will be "the haters" while the use of the same phrase purposely spreads hate. There is no real discussion happening just a fully automated response "the haters". It is the same as talking about flat-earthers when you know it has nothing to do with the masses. You say your part and the response comes back "but the flat earthers ....." but I wasn't talking about flat earthers.... response "ya but the flat earthers wow". I have had similar discussions while playing online games. Flush and repeat, logic will not solve this.
Click to expand...
From the completely opposite end, you have those who create the content - actors/directors/writers. With the loudspeaker blaring hate, that's all they hear. Very few people in the case of the acolyte blasted 'this is awesome'. They were quiet and just enjoyed it. Those in the middle did much the same. So, all they hear is the hate. I don't doubt they get sick of it.

We've got, what? 4 prime examples?
  • Finn, who was as good as can be expected in a poorly written and executed trilogy
  • Rose, who was fine, but was in the same poorly executed trilogy and was a bit of a wasted, if not pointless, character
  • 3rd Sister (Obi Wan show) - who was horribly written and directed.
  • Osha/Mae in the Acolyte - again, a show that failed on a number of fronts.
Haters then blame the fail on casting and acting which had no part in the fail at all, but as someone said - racists are going to be racists. They just used to keep it to themselves, but it's all of sudden acceptable to blare it in open forums. If you want to blame a fail on that, well, it says loads more about you than it does anything else. I do feel bad for the actors. They didn't do anything to bring this on themselves. Hell, even the bad writing and directing didn't do that. It's small minded people who love to espouse their hatred. Disney though, needs to preach to them to ignore it (you can block people on all social media after all), and not to coach them to blame it.

Several people in here have said: Good product wins out in these scenarios. I guess people take the disappointment and channel it into idiotic things like that. Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd come to mind. Characters people hated and attacked the actors over and not the guy who wrote bad characters.

I mean, FFS, star wars has a massive fan base. You'd think step 1 would be get the fan base on your side and not lets see how we can piss them off and try and only get new fans. You do that and you're sunk before you started. In the case of the ST and the acolyte, that seems to have been one of their goals, which is mystifying when you think about it. SW as a brand is only worth it's value because of the fan base, so, step 1, get the fan base on your side - or, at the very least, don't go out of your way to alienate them. But, alienating them is what they seem to do best. You can write stuff that is vastly different and goes in new directions without alienating the fan base and possibly even catering to them, but the seem opposed to that for some reason. As i said...mystifying.
 
I have my personal beliefs. Some may call it “political” so I won’t post them here for fear of getting banned or at the very least get an infraction. Suffice to say I am tired of Disney’s agenda and I for one am thrilled this is now off the air.
 
cboath said:
The problem is there is a group out there that spews this garbage seemingly any time there is a remote hint of anything they deem dei in star wars. They arent fans, so i dont think they should use the term toxic fans. Maybe toxic trolls. Regardless, they ars there and they are loud. Given that, it gives the studio a built in crutch for anything that goes wrong. They have gotten to the point of almost using that crutch before release. The second the first hint of the trolls arises.

Now, the problem supporters of wanting s2 have is that even if you buy the premise that the trolls kept people away, this a show than ran 7 weeks and in that span, it lost 25-30% of the viewers that showed up week 1. That is a big loss and one that tends to get cancelation. How many shows lose that many and survive? I cant imagine any unless week 1 was mindbogglingly high numbers.

I also wouldnt call wanting some diversity sending a political message either. Society wasnt single color in the 70s. Yet in a galaxy where there were more aliens than anyone had ever seen before - all the humans were single color. Sure lando in esb, but not before. But everyone was just fine with that. Everyone is still fine with that as well.

Look at it from another perspective. If they remade anh today, with no story changes, but picked say someone who was a poc as han...people would flip out. There would be no discussion on if he was the best actor they saw or not. People would call it dei and trash it from the second it was announced until after it left theaters. Now, not everyone would flip out but there would be a loud segment spewing hate on it.

So what do you do? You should make the best movie you can and stand on the results. The acolyte loses on that premise. I saw someone make this comment...rogue one, arguably the best sw movie disney put out...female lead, mainly poc as the cast. No dei whining, and it pulled a billion iirc. Caveat is that it did dei before anyone considered it a 4 letter word, but still. It illustrates the point...make the best thing you can and let your work speak for itself. People shouting the hate from the rooftops though, will have an effect. It will keep anyone who is anti dei from watching. It can keep people on the fence from watching. That hurts things. But nothing hurts more than having a third of your audience opt out in 7 weeks. Hate being screamed doesnt do that. People not liking what they see does that.
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Well said, YouTubers have realized they get more clicks with negativity..

Some of the stuff the BIG names on YouTube are saying, you know they are full of it..

I’ve watched them for years, you get to know what they like and don’t like.. and now 90% of the Star Wars channels are all negative for more subs

I have been with this one channel since 400 subscribers.. I’ve watched her take 2 years to get to 10,000 subs.. she starts being negative.. over 120k and growing..

The proof is right there..

I give up on any “honest opinions” on Star Wars
 
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