Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[HeartBlade]

In my humble opinion, once the original creator is no longer involved then nothing from that point on is canon. I'm not including anything comic book related since that's a bit of a different animal.

I agree with this sentiment. The ideas are from the original creator so one s/he steps away from the project, there is a lack of legitimacy in any follow up project. Maybe if the new director studied intensively under the original do knows the lore and ideas inside-out and is given the original creator’s full support and blessing, then maybe but still a big maybe.

And I don’t care if some of Lucas’ original ideas were in the ST which is a point that will come up. It has to be 100% Lucas, warts and all.

The best recent example may be A song of ice and fire. The series still has fans despite GoT’s massive blunder of an ending because D&D’s ending is not canon. Fans want to see Martin’s ending and even though D&D apparently heard of the ending from Martin and thus their ending has the elements or final pieces, it is still not considered canon or the true ending because they came up with it and set the path toward it. Even if D&D ended GoT spectacularly, I doubt fans would still take their ending as canon because it’s not 100% Martin.
another good example is dragon ball. GT is widely considered non-canon by fans because Toei made it without the original creator (I think he added some designs only). The new Super cartoon is considered canon but not the manga because the cartoon was made by the OC. Even though Super has a mixed reception, people arnt debating its canonicity because the OC was involved in its creation (they are more blaming his poor memory lol).

 

[harrisonp]

It’s very evident watching these new movies just how much George’s presence on set regardless of directing or not shaped the movies that preceded the Disney buyout. While he was probably left too greatly unchecked for the Prequels, his tastes and specific vision still carries from the OT.

Pacing is one of the most glaring things that I’ve noticed when watching the Sequel Trilogy, and they feel very much in the house style of the era as kicked off by Abrams in the Star Wars universe and seen widely (and arguably more successfully) elsewhere in places like the MCU

Everyone in the ST is a one liner factory, emotion is undercut by humor again and again, rarely does anyone have a genuine exposition filled dialogue they just generally state exactly what they’re thinking/feeling/doing at any given time.

George’s movies stood apart from their contemporaries for better or worse.

* I’m a fan of the MCU, but they get away with a lot due to the charisma of the actors and the care with which they’ve maintained the integrity of the stakes and stories. They believably created a universe where a talking Racoon and a 70 year old man who fought Nazis can exist side by side and not feel ridiculous.

 

[HMSwolfe]

It’s very evident watching these new movies just how much George’s presence on set regardless of directing or not shaped the movies that preceded the Disney buyout. While he was probably left too greatly unchecked for the Prequels, his tastes and specific vision still carries from the OT.

Pacing is one of the most glaring things that I’ve noticed when watching the Sequel Trilogy, and they feel very much in the house style of the era as kicked off by Abrams in the Star Wars universe and seen widely (and arguably more successfully) elsewhere in places like the MCU

Everyone in the ST is a one liner factory, emotion is undercut by humor again and again, rarely does anyone have a genuine exposition filled dialogue they just generally state exactly what they’re thinking/feeling/doing at any given time.

George’s movies stood apart from their contemporaries for better or worse.

* I’m a fan of the MCU, but they get away with a lot due to the charisma of the actors and the care with which they’ve maintained the integrity of the stakes and stories. They believably created a universe where a talking Racoon and a 70 year old man who fought Nazis can exist side by side and not feel ridiculous.

TROS is the worst offender of all when it comes to pacing. I felt a little rushed along watching TFA, like, gotta get to the next scene because that’s how blockbusters are nowadays! (Which is why I have mad respect for Logan and its director, James Mangold, who wanted the film to be R so the studio couldn’t tell him to cut slower scenes and stuff like that). But TROS’s pacing is designed to make you forget what just happened, because if you thought about it for more time than it was on screen, it falls apart immediately. It’s literally a cheap roller-coaster: not the kind you’d find at old-school Disneyland, with so much attention to atmosphere and detail that even waiting in line can be fun; no, it’s the kind of rickety wooden roller-coaster barely held together, at a carnival that’s ready to skip town at the first sign of trouble.

 

[sztriki]

In my humble opinion, once the original creator is no longer involved then nothing from that point on is canon. I'm not including anything comic book related since that's a bit of a different animal.

Sort of, but I myself am more selfish and just pick what I want. I ignore the prequels too from my canon and they are all George's movies.
Conversely, I consider the Witcher game story a proper continuation even though the writer of the books openly distances himself from those and considers them adaptations (prob means like fanfic). For me however they work fine.

 

[harrisonp]

I think the prequels still feel like Star Wars because of George, they're just not very good Star Wars. The sequels struggle even with the feel

 

[sztriki]

I think the prequels still feel like Star Wars because of George, they're just not very good Star Wars. The sequels struggle even with the feel

To me the prequels feel like the worst aspects of Star Wars. The side why the cool guys in school would not go near it and called me a dork for...
I think ROTJ is the best representation of George's original idea of SW where he and his oddball ideas and shoddy filmmaking were not nearly as controlled by Gary Kurtz (and later Kershner) but still constrained by technology. Then the prequels just blew it all up cuz he could do whatever he wanted.
TFA felt like a SW movie for me. Solo kinda did too, although in a really watered down way. The rest...well, yea no.

 

[ower]

TROS is the worst offender of all when it comes to pacing. I felt a little rushed along watching TFA, like, gotta get to the next scene because that’s how blockbusters are nowadays! (Which is why I have mad respect for Logan and its director, James Mangold, who wanted the film to be R so the studio couldn’t tell him to cut slower scenes and stuff like that). But TROS’s pacing is designed to make you forget what just happened, because if you thought about it for more time than it was on screen, it falls apart immediately. It’s literally a cheap roller-coaster: not the kind you’d find at old-school Disneyland, with so much attention to atmosphere and detail that even waiting in line can be fun; no, it’s the kind of rickety wooden roller-coaster barely held together, at a carnival that’s ready to skip town at the first sign of trouble.

When you were a kid playing with your SW toys, did you waste time on all the boring "story" stuff or did you just make enough to set up the space battle or fight scene and jump from one battle to another bad ass battle?

That's what all these movies felt like, a bunch of nerds who grew up and got handed the keys the kingdom to make their fan film with studio backing.. called in all their pals for cameos and then just wanted to recreate the bad ass battles they created as kids in the house\back yard but this time with life sized action figures and digital effects. The fluff inbetween was just to get you to the next cool action scene didn't need to make sense except to set up why you'd be riding horses on a star destroyer during a battle.

 

[Psab keel]

I literally laughed out loud when I saw that shot in the trailer.

 

[HMSwolfe]

When you were a kid playing with your SW toys, did you waste time on all the boring "story" stuff or did you just make enough to set up the space battle or fight scene and jump from one battle to another bad ass battle?

That's what all these movies felt like, a bunch of nerds who grew up and got handed the keys the kingdom to make their fan film with studio backing.. called in all their pals for cameos and then just wanted to recreate the bad ass battles they created as kids in the house\back yard but this time with life sized action figures and digital effects. The fluff inbetween was just to get you to the next cool action scene didn't need to make sense except to set up why you'd be riding horses on a star destroyer during a battle.

When I was a kid I was a dumbass who thought Empire Strikes Back was the worst Star Wars film because “it was the most boring-est”. I couldn’t care less what kids are doing or want, though from what I’ve heard, kids today really don’t care about Star Wars merch. It’s mostly millennials and Gen X-ers buying that stuff.

I think adults “talking down” to kids like this through movies is terrible. I don’t think there should be any content directed at only children. Either it should be something everyone can enjoy, even if the kids don’t get every single aspect right away, or it shouldn’t get made, you know, like Minions movies and stuff like that. And I also think films shouldn’t just be an Adam Sandler scenario where you just get together with your friends and make a terrible movie just to have an excuse to hang out and get paid. I think you can and should enjoy filmmaking, but not at the expense of the end result.

Also, there are already literally thousands of fans that make crappy fan films that are just callbacks, references, and excuses to play with lightsabers. I think a multi-billion dollar corporation would try a little bit harder at the story and character stuff than “the guy who raised the Rancor: a Star Wars story”. (That is real. That is a real fan film. It almost seems like satire of fan films but I honestly don’t know.)

And finally, there is no excuse that could have been made to make the space horses not stupid. Frankly, any fictional animal meant to serve as a horse is going to look stupid, especially in a space opera, especially especially on the surface of a massive starship leaving the atmosphere.