annanake
Sr Member
Both issues can be traced directly back to George's style of writing and how the films were structured. Realistically, what should have happened is that Anakin works as the audience surrogate (the same way Luke was in ANH) to whom things must be explained. As Anakin is trained, he'd need to learn about the Dark Side of the force. He'd also need to learn who the Sith are, since they are the ones he faces. This would allow his tutor the opportunity to provide a bit of exposition to clear this stuff up. E.g., "The Dark Side is that part of the Force driven by anger, fear, hatred, and which ultimately leads to evil. The Sith were an order of the most devoted practitioners of Dark Side manipulation, who nearly enslaved the galaxy over 1000 years ago before they were defeated and utterly destroyed by the Jedi. Since that time, there have been other Dark Side users, but they have been wild, untrained, and ultimately defeated by the Jedi. The figure we fought, though, was clearly trained in what I am sure were ancient Sith arts." Then when Anakin says "How do you know" he explains that he has studied the Sith in the archives, but such things are only for the highest ranking and most closely trusted Jedi like Master Windu and Master Yoda." And that builds Anakin's growing resentment of not having enough power, yadda yadda yadda.
Now, it's not directly relevant to the films (that the Sith are just one kind of dark side user), but you could work it into the films. Instead, Lucas' style has always been to, like, drop a reference to something and then...not really explain it. The new film had some of this, too. Referencing the Knights of Ren without explaining who they are. I expect they will be explained, though, precisely because of the whole "Wait, I thought the Sith were the bad guys?" issue that you (understandably) point out.
Well, technically, we refer to such people as Neo-Nazis, rather than Nazis themselves, but congrats on Godwinning the thread either way!
I'm sorry, but can you refer me to the Plagueis backstory that remains canonical? As far as I know, the only backstory we have -- the only official backstory, anyway -- is the story Palpatine tells Anakin at the opera house. As far as I can recall, there was no mention of Plagueis generally manipulating the galaxy from the shadows for years, nor the precise manner of his demise, other than dying in his sleep. I mean, for all you know, Palpatine poured poison in his mouth, and there were no visible wounds. If all we have to go on are the EU novels, then you can't rely on them and we're back to the "but why'd they have to get rid of the EU?!?!" debate.
Two things.
First, to be fair, we don't know the full story yet. All we have are the initial hints of a story, and a lot of people are simply filling in the blanks based on past stories and current assumptions.
Snoke's goal vis a vis the Force could be...nothing. Maybe he doesn't even have Force powers himself, he's just really good at manipulating and BSing impressionable young chuckleheads like Ben Solo. Like many cult leaders, he may simply be a guy who knows how to influence people without actually having special magic powers. Towards that end, the Knights of Ren might simply Force wielders that Snoke has manipulated into working for him.
Or they may be a Dark Side faction with a wholly different philosophical stance than the Sith. We have no idea, but I expect the distinction will eventually be drawn. If that doesn't happen, then yeah, I agree that the use of Snoke and the Knights of Ren will have been pretty silly and pointless and will render them more like the Knights-Who-So-Recently-Said-"Sith!". But it's a little early to make that call, I think.
I don't recall him saying that (not saying he didn't, just that I don't recall it). I thought he wanted to succeed where Vader failed. So, towards that end, he'd lift what he thinks works, and try to reject what he thought didn't work. Maybe Kylo Ren can't find any old Sith teachings and that'll be part of the new films -- him hunting for them. Or maybe it'll be something else. I dunno.
I don't think it's a retcon of the PT because the PT never really established who/what the Sith were, and therefore there's not that much there to really retcon in the first place. I do think that's kind of a failure of the PT, but at that point, the series could simply fall back on the EU to fill in the blanks. Now we're rebuilding all of that, so we don't have the backstory to rely on.
I don't know how they're gonna take this, but I do expect they'll distinguish the two bad guy groups at some point, the same way that the First Order is not the Empire.
Again, I chalk most of this up to Lucas' style of writing. He'd throw out a prophecy without even understanding it himself, or rather would use words that he thinks are totally unambiguous, but which can easily beinterpreted differently. Case in point, he apparently has said in interviews that "balance to the Force" meant "destroy the Sith." Because apparently destroying evil = balance? I think George would tend to toss around ideas without really having a clear, fixed backstory in mind, which I suppose makes sense when he considers even the stories he'd commit to film as "stories that I can mess with whenever I like."
Remember the end of Watchmen? Nothing ever "ends."
neo Nazis exactly I even put that in my post neo sith we don't give a long explanation about how they differ from the Nazis they hang hitler pictures on the wall they hate jews there Nazis especially since Kylo worships frakin vader .and slaughters frakin jedi !
everything is different now concerning the EU that is fine exactly my point is then change it don't write a character that is exactly the same and change his name and tell me you did something . earn you damn paycheck if you want to change it change it is complete BS to erase a name and replace it with SNOKE one of the worst names ever .. still have not seen anything that says he is not plaguies other than the writers denying it which they have to do no matter what it part of there job.
