STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

[Laspector]

.. the Jedi returned with Luke in Return of the Jedi and he tells Leia that in time she's lean to use the Force as well. To have the Jedi vanish again 30 years later, (particularly as they were wiped out once before) doesn't give them much credibility!

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I was saying that in order for the Jedi to return it means they had to go away in the first place. I think this new series takes place in that period where they were gone away-- ergo no jedi in the new series IMHO.

 

[gonk27]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I was saying that in order for the Jedi to return it means they had to go away in the first place. I think this new series takes place in that period where they were gone away-- ergo no jedi in the new series IMHO.

.. Yeah sorry, I appear to my threads crossed! I thought I was typing in the Ep 7 thread :$

 

[gonk27]

This is a thread about Rebels, not about the sequel films. I agree that I'd expect to see Jedi in the sequels (not Sith, though). But in Rebels, the Jedi are supposed to be dead, there are only two Sith, and there's a whole universe of people waiting to fight back against the empire. We don't need yet more Jedi involved in that.

And merely because The Force is a major factor in the films doesn't mean there isn't more to be told that's wholly unrelated to it. You know what? A smuggler and his wookiee copilot played a pretty large role in the films, too, but they've been given short shrift. Same with the brave pilots and soldiers who fought for the Rebellion. Anyoen care about them? Nah. They're boring, right? No glowbats or superpowers.

Sorry for the confusion Solo, I was dodging from thread to thread earlier and forgot which one I was looking at when I replied. I fully agree with you though, of course the Force isn't the be-all and end-all but it's a big part of the Star Wars mythos and I see no reason why there couldn't or shouldn't be force-users in Rebels even if they aren't Jedi knights. Luke could use the Force to an extent before he became a Jedi, maybe there are others with the same kinds of ability?

(I've not been keeping up to date with this series so I'm not really bothered with what they do with it, it's the films I'm more focused on).

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Benevolent tyranny is still tyranny, and with an unelected religious group of supermen acting as police, I'd argue that those in the Old Republic definitely lived in a gilded cage.

Yes and no.

Yes, to what you said, but you are speaking about the Jedi based on what they had become by the time of Episode I.

HOWEVER...

That is why there was a prophecy of bringing balance to the Force. From what I take away from the Prequels and the CW series, The Jedi were losing contol (based on Mace and Yoda conversation)of the Force, and that padawans like Anakin were becoming more arrogant (based on the discussion between Obi/Mace/Yoda but I forget the exact words they used) it was not just because the return of the Sith but because of what the Jedi had become. In the pure form of what the Jedi represent, they are a great thing to have in the Galaxy but in the prequels they were to intertwined in politics. We can also see this in the way Ashoka was treated and accused of a crime. She saw what the Jedi really were and left. Anakin sees it too which is a reason (built on several other reasons like not being allowed to help his mother) why I believe he was able to be swayed when Padame's life was later at stake. It was the staw that broke the Taun Taun's back.

Unfortunately for the Jedi balance was going to come with huge sacrifices. Balance meant starting off with a clean slate and that balance would not be achieved until Anakin decided to choose good over bad and heave the Emperor to his death.

Luke is a New Hope, not just for the defeat of the Empire but also to rebuild the Jedi back to there true form.

 

[Solo4114]

I'd also add that the Jedi could be something different. Much of the "balance" thing seemed to be a dichotomy between unemotional Jedi (where every strong feeling is a path to the dark side) vs. unrestrained emotion in the Sith (where every strong feeling is a path to power). It's rationality/order vs. passion/chaos. And the truth is, you need a balance of both.

But regardless, my real issue with this show based on the VERY little bit I know is the idea that there are yet more dark-side force users out there other than Vader and the Emperor. Those two should be it.

 

[Jeyl]

I'd also add that the Jedi could be something different.

And risk saying that Yoda was wrong the whole time? I doubt anyone would acknowledge even that. Yoda is such an iconic character to the franchise whom everyone loves that saying he was ever wrong is like saying Lincoln was wrong about everything he did during his presidency. You can't do that without risk of saying his character was full of crap the whole time.

 

[Pwrsrce]

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not totally opposed to Jedi, Sith, and the Force...The prequels just wore me out with it. I thoroughly expect more of it all in the new films, but (for many reasons already stated above) don't think it has to be a driving force of this new Rebels series...

And while the Force did play a roll in Star Wars, there was so much more to the story...Including many characters with which the Force/Jedi/Sith just wasn't an issue. Let's not forget that not only did Han deride it as a lot of bunk, but so did Admiral Motti...So by the time ANH rolled around life had moved past it in many people's heads, regardless of political affiliation. It was an ancient religion thrown on the dustbin of history...The Star Wars universe at that time existed completely outside of the Force in the minds of many...


Jason

 

[Solo4114]

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not totally opposed to Jedi, Sith, and the Force...The prequels just wore me out with it. I thoroughly expect more of it all in the new films, but (for many reasons already stated above) don't think it has to be a driving force of this new Rebels series...

And while the Force did play a roll in Star Wars, there was so much more to the story...Including many characters with which the Force/Jedi/Sith just wasn't an issue. Let's not forget that not only did Han deride it as a lot of bunk, but so did Admiral Motti...So by the time ANH rolled around life had moved past it in many people's heads, regardless of political affiliation. It was an ancient religion thrown on the dustbin of history...The Star Wars universe at that time existed completely outside of the Force in the minds of many...


Jason

I couldn't have said it better, myself. I DEFINITELY couldn't have said it as concisely.

 

[Pwrsrce]

I couldn't have said it better, myself. I DEFINITELY couldn't have said it as concisely.

Haha...Well, I usually tend to be long winded, so I'll take that as a compliment.

In actuality, it's one of the brilliant things about the Star Wars universe in general...And I tip my hat to Lucas for creating such a vast and rich cosmos that it can mean such different things to each individual viewer. For some Star Wars IS all about the Force, sabers, Jedi, Sith, etc...For others, it's all about the rebellion and their fight against the Empire...Others could care less about any of that, and simply want more scoundrels, crime lords, and the fringe establishments...All equally interesting, with enough characters and history to explore for years. That's the genius of it.

After Episode III I had to take a little break from Star Wars overload. But I must admit that it's an exciting time to be a fan once again.

Jason

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not totally opposed to Jedi, Sith, and the Force...The prequels just wore me out with it. I thoroughly expect more of it all in the new films, but (for many reasons already stated above) don't think it has to be a driving force of this new Rebels series...

And while the Force did play a roll in Star Wars, there was so much more to the story...Including many characters with which the Force/Jedi/Sith just wasn't an issue. Let's not forget that not only did Han deride it as a lot of bunk, but so did Admiral Motti...So by the time ANH rolled around life had moved past it in many people's heads, regardless of political affiliation. It was an ancient religion thrown on the dustbin of history...The Star Wars universe at that time existed completely outside of the Force in the minds of many...


Jason

I right there with you.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

And risk saying that Yoda was wrong the whole time? I doubt anyone would acknowledge even that. Yoda is such an iconic character to the franchise whom everyone loves that saying he was ever wrong is like saying Lincoln was wrong about everything he did during his presidency. You can't do that without risk of saying his character was full of crap the whole time.

Just because we love a character does not make that character unflawed. Yoda was part of the same system that lead to the Jedi's downfall. He sat on the council along with Mace and resisted the idea of the Sith's return when Qui Gonn reported it. They also resisted the thought that a Jedi (Dooku) would become a sith.

 

[Solo4114]

Yeah. Cat's out of the bag on that one. Yoda's already been proven wrong, so I'm not concerned about proving him wrong again.

Plus, my sense is that Luke, as a Jedi, is a far more emotionally balanced figure than any Jedi that preceded him. He's felt anger, fear, hate, etc., but he doesn't let it control him, and he doesn't use it to fuel his power. He's not a monk, even if he's also at peace with himself. Emotion isn't something for him to hide from, but rather to feel without letting it control him, and without using it for evil or self-serving purposes.

 

[Bryancd]

Agreed, I would say GL actually used the prequels to portray Yoda and the Jedi as being misguided.

 

[Laspector]

Yeah. Cat's out of the bag on that one. Yoda's already been proven wrong, so I'm not concerned about proving him wrong again.

Plus, my sense is that Luke, as a Jedi, is a far more emotionally balanced figure than any Jedi that preceded him. He's felt anger, fear, hate, etc., but he doesn't let it control him, and he doesn't use it to fuel his power. He's not a monk, even if he's also at peace with himself. Emotion isn't something for him to hide from, but rather to feel without letting it control him, and without using it for evil or self-serving purposes.

I agree with this.

Maybe it is BECAUSE Luke was not trained from such a young age, he makes the best Jedi. Maybe because he was not indoctrinated from toddler age, he knows how "real" people think and feel and can use better judgement rather than Jedi "brainwashing" (for lack of a better word). Maybe because the Force was something he learned as a young adult he is not so controlled by it's ways as are most Jedi "lifers". Maybe because the propaganda of the Force is so engrained in most Jedi, they simply cannot function without it's guidance, whereas Luke knows how to draw on his own human inner strengths and weaknesses rather than relying on the Force for everything....Like the way Kirk is always telling Spock that it is the illogical part of humanity that gives it it's strength, maybe this also applies to Luke and his knowledge, use, and control of the Force...

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

One of the things that i like about CW is the way they transitioned between the ships,armor,weapons of AOTC to that of what we see in ROTS and the influences designs that we see in the OT (such as the way the the inside of bases and ships looked). I'm guessing that although ships like the TIE Fighter look light McQuarrie concept art, as the years of the story progress, we may see the TIE as we know it from the OT.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

Any new "rebels" series should have no Jedi in it other than their horrific deaths. Jedi have been done to death, it's boring, fan-boyish, and totally distracting from some really cool drama.

 

[modelcitizen]

your wish is the inquisitor's command...but alas, not what the fanboys meant by "i want to see vader hunting down jedi".

 

[Jeyl]

Just because we love a character does not make that character unflawed. Yoda was part of the same system that lead to the Jedi's downfall. He sat on the council along with Mace and resisted the idea of the Sith's return when Qui Gonn reported it. They also resisted the thought that a Jedi (Dooku) would become a sith.

Those are all great points, but the issue I have is that these films never acknowledged them. Yoda never questions his beliefs or how misguided the Jedi were, especially when all he does is point fingers at the Sith for being the cause of all their problems. When his old apprentice turns to the dark side, he doesn't treat it as a failure on his part or questions why his former apprentice could turn evil. Yoda just treats Dooku like some off the shelf bad guy that could have been played out as though they've never met at all.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Those are all great points, but the issue I have is that these films never acknowledged them.

The Jedi fell, the Sith came into power. The republic transformed into an tyrannical Empire... that's how the film acknowledged it.

Yoda never questions his beliefs or how misguided the Jedi were, especially when all he does is point fingers at the Sith for being the cause of all their problems. When his old apprentice turns to the dark side, he doesn't treat it as a failure on his part or questions why his former apprentice could turn evil. Yoda just treats Dooku like some off the shelf bad guy that could have been played out as though they've never met at all.

They also didn't show Yoda taking a crap either, but I am pretty sure he did at some point. Just because a movie doesn't show every thought or inner emotion, you as an audience member have to utilize what you know. Of course it will be opinion but I will tell you my opinion based on what we know of Yoda from the movies.

Yoda did express disappointment to Dooku about going to the dark side. I would have to conclude that once he realized this fact, he gave it a lot of thought. Did he decide that he and the Jedi Order played a part in his fall to the dark side or did he chalk it up to Dooku's bad judgement and Palpatine's deception? Since I saw no change in he teaching or leadership, I would say he could have gone with the latter. Since we don't know exactly the situation that lead to the transformation, we do not know if Yoda came to the correct conclusion.

We also know that he meditated quite often in order to understand the pain that Anakin was feeling he was attuned to his fellow Jedi when they were killed off. We saw a lot of emotion from him and also in discovering what role Anakin played. I would conclude that someone capable of those emotions would have to reflect on what had happened. I think both Yoda and Obi spent a lot of their 20 years in seclusion contemplating what went wrong. Things that should have been different in the way the Jedi existed and what role they personally failed.

I think that Obi and Yoda blamed themselves maybe even more than they should have. We know Obi placed blame on himself from the story he told Luke about Anakin's training. However, even with this belief that Obi and Yoda understood their past misguided ways it does not mean that they still were not without flaws or all the answers. Both Yoda and Obi must have believed that the "Chosen One" prophecy was a misguided belief otherwise they would never have told Luke that killing Vader was the only way. Vader/Anakin needed to live because he still was going to fulfill the prophecy just not in the way the Jedi thought it would play out. Although Luke was told there was no hope for Anakin, he choose to believe there was still good in him the same as Padme believed.

 

[Riceball]

All of what MJF said plus the fact that Yoda isn't a main character and most definitely not the focus of the story, the prequels was about Anakin and the OT was about Luke and Yoda was only there to support the story, not tell it. The biggest reason why we don't see or hear Yoda contemplating Dooku's fall is because it doesn't matter, it's completely irrelevant to the story. All that matters is that Dooku was once a Jedi and a student of Yoda's but now he's not, end of story; anything more would be superfluous and only serve to slow the pacing of the movie down with useless information.