Heroes have to have weaknesses that show that despite everything they're not invulnerable or the audience can't connect with them. It's why marvel was good at making believable heroes, they had issues in their lives that everyone else did too but made more complicated because of their situations. Even going back to mythology: Hercules was super human but his life was never easy and he suffered as a normal person would. They're turning the Jedi into Wolverine: super humans with no real weaknesses and hard to get the audience in tune with.
STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
spacebat
Active Member
Hehe, had me there for a few seconds before I read that last paragraph.
I don't think anyone has ever attributed "immortality" to Jedi. Most "humanoid" Jedi seem to have an average lifespan with the exception of Yoda's race and Wookies. Did you mean "invulnerability" or "invincibility?"
The problem with the statement "it doesn't take a well trained Sith to take down a jedi" is that a Sith is still a force user. Also, any Sith that survives apprenticeship is worth their salt. A platoon of Clonetroopers is an entire platoon of genetically engineered super soldiers trained since birth to be soldiers.
While Sith and Platoons of Clone Troopers have the ability to take down Jedi. These are not normal aliens or human beings to begin with.
spacebat
Active Member
Supervising Take your Daughter to work day on the Death Star?
Darth Vader: "What have you done with those plans?! Gary here, never sees his daughter because of people like you!"
Well, according to established canon, there were many planetary rebellions that banded together (as a direct result of Galen Marek's meddling). Bellassa, Alderaan, and Corellia were among the first to join. Perhaps these rebels will join up later.
For more reading: Alliance to Restore the Republic - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki
Edwardowan
Sr Member
I see it that the Jedi need to focus, concentrate and actually make an effort to use the force. some abilities may be easier and take less effort than others but if a squad of clone troopers or what have you overwhelm a Jedi then he could lose concentration and full ability to deflect or otherwise dismiss the threats at hand. Both Qui Gon and Obi Wan take off and run away at the site of multiple droidekas after attempting to use his lightsaber to cut through the federation blast door to get to the command center. They knew the odds were a a bit more against them. Same with Ki-Adi-Mundi and Aayla Secura in the Revenge of the sith .. they were taken by surprise and overwhelmed.
The force can give them super powers but one must con-cen-TRATE!!!! :lol
The force can give them super powers but one must con-cen-TRATE!!!! :lol
Hehe, had me there for a few seconds before I read that last paragraph.
I don't think anyone has ever attributed "immortality" to Jedi. Most "humanoid" Jedi seem to have an average lifespan with the exception of Yoda's race and Wookies. Did you mean "invulnerability" or "invincibility?"
The problem with the statement "it doesn't take a well trained Sith to take down a jedi" is that a Sith is still a force user. Also, any Sith that survives apprenticeship is worth their salt. A platoon of Clonetroopers is an entire platoon of genetically engineered super soldiers trained since birth to be soldiers.
While Sith and Platoons of Clone Troopers have the ability to take down Jedi. These are not normal aliens or human beings to begin with.
Darth Lars
Master Member
I do dislike that Inquisitor.
The show is called "Rebels". The heroes are supposed to be rebels. Then they don't need to show that much of the Empire. We did not see that many different imperial characters in the original trilogy either. No new imperial characters are needed.
The show is called "Rebels". The heroes are supposed to be rebels. Then they don't need to show that much of the Empire. We did not see that many different imperial characters in the original trilogy either. No new imperial characters are needed.
You don't think they made an exception to training rules, during a war, for the Chosen One?
No it's been in the EU. In the Republic Commando novels they said several times that the Jedi were promoting Padawans faster to get more generals onto the battlefield.
This is about a pretend subject, not real military. I find it odd and equally offensive that you'd transfer my opinion on a pretend subject onto a real war where real people are dying. The two don't have a thing to do with each other.
In the general EU on the Prequel era Jedi they say that there are Jedi who choose to focus on fighting skills like Anakin, and then there are others who are diplomats, librarians, etc. Those latter Jedi were rushed into a war and a lot of them didn't have the combat skills to survive long. That's the whole point of the Clone Wars, to kill Jedi off.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
"War does not make one great." - Yoda
Solo4114
Master Member
One thing i'm curious about is how much of the EU stuff will creep in here. For example, if Garm Bel Iblis shows up, does that mean that the Zahn trilogy is still going to remain intact for the purposes of the other films? In which case, does that mean that Mara Jade still exists, Luke marries her, etc.? My bet is that only characters who are either totally new or who already appeared will show up, though.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Nope. :thumbsdown
Exactly. You have no real canon reference. What's next? Supporting material from the Ewoks cartoon or maybe the Holiday Special? :lol
It's a valid comparison. It's just that you don't have a decent argument to defend it. Now you want to cry foul. :cry
EU again? :facepalm See above comment.
I love you SVS! :love
Come down to Florida. I'll take you to lunch.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I think that is what many are asking in regards to Eps VII as well.
I tend to believe from what has been done so far is that if the powers-that-be likes something that has appeared in the EU, they will include it (Vos, Aaayla for example). But with that being said, they have no obligation to utilize them exactly as EU has depicted them. Think about things like Superman, Batman, etc, that have been created in comics. However when a movie comes out, the powers-that-be create a universe that may adhere to some established elements and completely alter and or neglect other elements.
IMHO, about 95% of the EU stuff is just crap that lacks imagination or real SW universe feel. And this is coming from me... a member with a EU reference user name. I would gladly sacrifice the 5% I do like to get rid of the other 95%. https://www.facebook.com/BringBackChewbaccaStarWarsEpisodeVii
Solo4114
Master Member
That's about where I am. There's plenty I really enjoyed, but far more that was utter dreck. I can still enjoy the stuff I liked, even if it becomes apocryphal, if losing it nukes the rest of the garbage.
The EU IS canon. No, not on the same level as film ie, if there is a conflict, the film takes it, but if there is no conflict (now, for instance), the EU is the reference. It ticks me off that people say the EU isn't canon based on personal preference. I may not like The Clone Wars, but I still accept that it adds to the universe that I love.
Solo4114
Master Member
Two things:
1. There's so much of the "canon" that I don't like that I'm perfectly happy to disregard what I don't like and stick to my own imagination and the bits I do like for the rest. For example, the prequels occur entirely differently in MY Star Wars universe, and Greedo never got off a shot. People can disagree if they like. People can also suck it.
2. The EU can very easily unravel if you start taking away central elements from the earlier material. E.G., if Han and Leia never marry or have different kids, guess what! All that NJO stuff? Gone. The Vong war? Gone. The Corellian trilogy that takes place with the Solo kids? Gone. Same deal if you change WHO the kids are. Same deal if Luke has never married in Episode VII. You change that stuff earlier in the timeline, and you change everything that proceeds from that point forward.
Almost certainly LARGE SWATHS of the "canonical" EU will be eliminated with the arrival of Episode VII. There will simply be no way to reconcile what's in the novels with what appears on the screen other than to say "Alternate universe." Seriously. Get used to that idea now because it's gonna happen. The writers will not let themselves be hamstrung by 20 years of mediocre novels with a few excellent ones sprinkled in for good measure. You might get a reference here or there (e.g. "The Maw" Imperial weapons development facility appearing in Rebels), but much of the EU WILL be nuked. The amount of mental gymnastics required to make it fit will be simply impossible.
I advise you to adopt the approach I take: make your own canon.
spacebat
Active Member
Two things:
1. There's so much of the "canon" that I don't like that I'm perfectly happy to disregard what I don't like and stick to my own imagination and the bits I do like for the rest. For example, the prequels occur entirely differently in MY Star Wars universe, and Greedo never got off a shot. People can disagree if they like. People can also suck it.
2. The EU can very easily unravel if you start taking away central elements from the earlier material. E.G., if Han and Leia never marry or have different kids, guess what! All that NJO stuff? Gone. The Vong war? Gone. The Corellian trilogy that takes place with the Solo kids? Gone. Same deal if you change WHO the kids are. Same deal if Luke has never married in Episode VII. You change that stuff earlier in the timeline, and you change everything that proceeds from that point forward.
Almost certainly LARGE SWATHS of the "canonical" EU will be eliminated with the arrival of Episode VII. There will simply be no way to reconcile what's in the novels with what appears on the screen other than to say "Alternate universe." Seriously. Get used to that idea now because it's gonna happen. The writers will not let themselves be hamstrung by 20 years of mediocre novels with a few excellent ones sprinkled in for good measure. You might get a reference here or there (e.g. "The Maw" Imperial weapons development facility appearing in Rebels), but much of the EU WILL be nuked. The amount of mental gymnastics required to make it fit will be simply impossible.
I advise you to adopt the approach I take: make your own canon.
And this is why I'm a fan of TORU...
And this is why I'm a fan of TORU...
What is TORU?
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
To me, real canon are the items developed to be true and never changing. It only gets overridden in extreme cases. However, if you have a level of canon which is set up basically as, "uh ok, develop what you want but LFL has no responsibility to follow it. It stays until we come up with something better." That really goes against what real canon is.
IMHO, to be told most of those works are canon is simply a marketing ploy to entice people to buy these products. How many people would buy and read a novel if it was stated, "Go ahead and pay $25 bucks for this book and spend a week reading it, but just so you know, it probably didn't happen"?
IMHO, to be told most of those works are canon is simply a marketing ploy to entice people to buy these products. How many people would buy and read a novel if it was stated, "Go ahead and pay $25 bucks for this book and spend a week reading it, but just so you know, it probably didn't happen"?
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Not sure about the "U" unless it stands for "Universe". But I think he is talking about...
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Solo4114
Master Member
This too. Much of the "This is canon" stuff is marketing. Remember how The Force Unleashed was stated to be canon? Right. Because ripping Star Destroyers out of the sky and backflipping to slice AT-STs in half vertically is TOTALLY CANONICAL. For realsies.
Basically, everything but the films is to be taken with a grain of salt. It can still be entertaining, and not everything needs to be seen to take place in the same "universe," either.
for those familiar with, say, the Gundam series, there have been similar things done there where, say, a game or book was published, but not treated as canon. Or how alternate universes basically play out the same general stories in slightly varied ways (e.g. Gundam SEED was basically Gundam 0079 redone).
this is why I say "develop your own canon." Pick and choose what you like because, frankly, Star Wars has been so expanded and modified over time that it's nearly impossible to determine what is and isn't canon anymore, with a handful of exceptions.
Similar threads
