Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
Paul Andrew
Master Member
I don't see most of these things as changes to canon, per se. It feels to me more like taking assumptions that we had from things that weren't spelled out specifically and finding ways to make interesting things happen where there are spaces to.
Is it ever spelled out that Leia and Kenobi never met? Is the use of the force ever explained on a mechanical level in such a way that being rusty at it is precluded? Is there room for different force users to experience those types of situations differently? A lot of canon is assumptions made by what we've seen previously, and I don't feel like anything in Obi Wan violates that, but it might provide a different point of view on some of it. Well, from a certain point of view anyway.
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
Something that just occurred to me(my apologies if this has been mentioned) is Obi-Wan's cave the same cave Luke built his lightsaber in in the ROTJ deleted scene? Im guessing no lol.
Last edited:
shadowfoil
Active Member
There’s definitely precedent in the expanded material for one “cutting themselves off from the force” after which it is difficult to reconnect and also it can be assumed that avoiding using the force is a bit of a survival mechanism as well as a point of shame at how Kenobi may feel like he’s failed as a Jedi
I think there's a few things to consider when canon is in question.
The first and most important one is what's being changed serving the overall narrative of the other material that's been in existence for years? If it serves to elaborate and expand on the initial idea in a meaningful way, then it's certainly worth considering. In this case I'd consider it a positive change. I can't think of a single person who was actually angry when Vader turned out to be Luke's dad. It was probably the greatest twist in cinema history and is still (mis)quoted to this day.
Conversely, to my thinking if you have recontextualize large chunks of the narrative in order to make your story work, especially when some of those ideas are fundamental to what made the older material work so well, then it does beg the question, how much of the changes depend on technicalities? If those changes are having to redefine who a character is, what they stand for, or to wholesale uproot certain plot points, then it can damage the story. That's not to suggest that it always does, but the risk is ever present with the more that gets altered.
Canon is generally accepted not just because it's the most widely accepted by the largest group, but because it's considered to be of the highest quality. Canonical texts are revered among scholars for their consistency and the same applies to fictional narratives. If this entire franchise were built as individual anthologies I think barely anyone would object because each story would be self contained, but if most people can't even agree on the basics, then it's no wonder the discourse falls apart.
Perhaps this show doesn't at all effect the perception fans have of Kenobi. Perhaps it only enhances their appreciation of the character because it redefines what they know and they enjoy the ride rather than the means to get there. I'm just trying my best to understand the perspective of those who enjoy the new material.
The first and most important one is what's being changed serving the overall narrative of the other material that's been in existence for years? If it serves to elaborate and expand on the initial idea in a meaningful way, then it's certainly worth considering. In this case I'd consider it a positive change. I can't think of a single person who was actually angry when Vader turned out to be Luke's dad. It was probably the greatest twist in cinema history and is still (mis)quoted to this day.
Conversely, to my thinking if you have recontextualize large chunks of the narrative in order to make your story work, especially when some of those ideas are fundamental to what made the older material work so well, then it does beg the question, how much of the changes depend on technicalities? If those changes are having to redefine who a character is, what they stand for, or to wholesale uproot certain plot points, then it can damage the story. That's not to suggest that it always does, but the risk is ever present with the more that gets altered.
Canon is generally accepted not just because it's the most widely accepted by the largest group, but because it's considered to be of the highest quality. Canonical texts are revered among scholars for their consistency and the same applies to fictional narratives. If this entire franchise were built as individual anthologies I think barely anyone would object because each story would be self contained, but if most people can't even agree on the basics, then it's no wonder the discourse falls apart.
Perhaps this show doesn't at all effect the perception fans have of Kenobi. Perhaps it only enhances their appreciation of the character because it redefines what they know and they enjoy the ride rather than the means to get there. I'm just trying my best to understand the perspective of those who enjoy the new material.
Last edited:
ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
I thought it was odd to have Leia and Kenobi meet but you're right it isn't exactly spelled out that they don't. If Lucas had intended Darth Vader to be a menacing force in the galaxy whose feared far and wide during this time period yet that idea doesn't specifically appear in any OT film or other canon, changing that notion which was outlined by Lucas violates the spirit of the character. Some wouldn't agree with that and they're welcome to feel however they'd like.
The necessity of filling in gaps likes these is suspect to me and screams "we're doing this for the wrong reasons." I think a better idea instead of reworking old established characters who have so much baggage is to leave them be and focus on new characters. Or create content with Vader, Kenobi, Luke, Leia but make it legends. Go crazy with it, I'd love to see some new takes or perspectives on them in that context. I don't want new canon takes that change or re contextualize OT characters with a Disney twist. They're re adding onto a story they didn't create which requires respect for history, respect for existing story, respect for creator intentionality and respect for the spirit of the characters. New doesn't have to replace old, both can exist side by side.
I've long been for the notion of moving far past the known characters and scenarios. Not just to preserve their integrity, but to truly make this franchise the expansive playground so many purport it to be. Honestly it's running into the same problem the EU ran into back in the late 90's when every single year of these characters lives were unnecessarily made into stories. You got to wondering if they ever had a moment's peace in their lives? You follow the trajectory of some of these character's lives (and afterlives) so that there's truly little left to explore. The fact that they're considering a second season of Kenobi seems unfathomable to me.
Just to remind, the Story Group was formed in '08 -- five years before the Disney sale. It wasn't a Disney idea, or a post-sale Lucasfilm idea. They'd already been working to keep the EU consistent, and, with no more movies, the Story Group was formed to keep things between the ancillary material and any new primary content (like Clone Wars) consistent. And they immediately ran into problems when George threw the Mandalorian arc into season 2 of Clone Wars, which contradicted everything previously established about Mandalore and the Mandalorians in the EU. So it's been an issue since the Story Group was formed, while George still ran Lucasfilm.
Well... I'm sure today's episode will be divisive, but I enjoyed it. Really enjoyed seeing more of the one character that appeared, & I think I may have Reva's endgame figured out.
I think it was definitely on a smaller scale, but I also think it was a first step.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Can I state the obvious? BTW, had no idea an episode dropped...lol, why i have friday in my mind?idk. Anyways, I heard the word is out and Ewan had to address it publicly about the actress that portrays Reva. The fact that some would send horrible, and ungodly DM's to the actress is unconscionable and is a disgrace to her and to all of us who can watch a series as fans, disagree and not be that excessive and mean spirited. Just because you may not like a character doesn't mean you have the right to personally attack the person portraying them. What a shame. On the other hand, just because a fan dislikes a character and is displeased with a performance, doesn't mean they are automatically a bully and hateful. So far, i have yet to see any comments on these threads that went to the extreme to mimic what was sent in personal DM's to the actress. Let's keep it that way and like another brother said on here earlier, here on the RPF we can agree and disagree and be respectful doing so, even if we get a little salty at times, i think we can all agree to love and respect another here and NEVER cross that line.
Amen!
From what I've seen, the backlash had been for specifically racist messages sent to Moses or posted about the race of the character, but as usual, any criticisms about either the acting, writing, or performance are getting lumped in & labeled as racist.
HMSwolfe
Master Member
After watching episode 3, my thoughts on the show are virtually unchanged. It still swings back and forth from “dang, I kind of like this,” to “dang, were they high?”
Overall, my thoughts are that this show will run its course and, instead of being some pivotal or highly-loved piece of Star Wars, will be fine and forgettable. Not as bad as BOBF, not as divisive as TLJ, just…being a thing that happened. Kind of the way most people (average people, not necessarily the more obsessed of us) view Solo, which is pretty much not giving it much thought at all beyond it having happened.
Except I liked Solo much more unequivocally than this show.
The Inquisitors are still terrible (although I don’t condone bullying any actor for a role they’ve played, even if they do it terribly, and unfortunately Star Wars has a history of actors getting hateful crap from people). Vader’s voice seemed better than Rogue One, although I was wondering did his helmet go on wrong? It seemed like both the main part of the head/face and the top shell were connected, but that’s not how they go on in ROTJ. I also think he walks a little funny.
Everyone is stupid, by the way. Obi-Wan hides in a safe house, and has a clear path to get to a pilot, but instead goes off to “lead them away”. Reva, of course, being the main character and Most Important Part of the Show is the only one smart enough to figure out the safe house and the hidden doors and passageway. The fact that one moment, Vader is holding Obi-Wan captive through the Force, but as soon as an ally attacks a stormtrooper, he doesn’t do it again despite the same distance being between them is laughable. Screenwriting these kinds of contrivances has really become the defining element of scripts from this century. Even in stuff I like, these sort of incredibly stupid decisions that characters make “so the story happens” really indicate that the people writing these stories just come up with plot points first and then push the characters through them, irregardless of whether it works or not. Whereas in my opinion, if you’ve written a character well enough, all you have to do is present the situation and you’ll surprise yourself at intuitively understanding the decision the character would make on their own.
The fight was also…extremely lackluster. The music is still all over the place, and especially the lack of the Imperial March is felt keenly whenever Vader’s around. I’ll certainly agree with some who have posted here that by this episode, it’s apparent that Obi-WAN’s characterization is remarkably inconsistent with how he’s been portrayed. Resorting to blasters when a mind trick would do, the PTSD flashback stuff, stumbling around like a drunk when confronted with Vader, snapping at Leia. She’s alright, I suppose. Far too precocious too often for a 9 year old, but she does look like Leia, and there are brief snippets where she feels like a real child. I liked the way Obi-Wan described the Force to her—it was simple and the analogy was perfect for her age. I also like the interaction they have talking about their families, how Leia asks if he’s her father, and his mention of a brother and his parents. I liked Tala, the Imperial officer quite a bit. Mole-Man Freck…left a little to be desired in the execution. A little too obviously a mole, a little too cartoonish, hardly any articulation in the mouth when he spoke.
Everyone is stupid, by the way. Obi-Wan hides in a safe house, and has a clear path to get to a pilot, but instead goes off to “lead them away”. Reva, of course, being the main character and Most Important Part of the Show is the only one smart enough to figure out the safe house and the hidden doors and passageway. The fact that one moment, Vader is holding Obi-Wan captive through the Force, but as soon as an ally attacks a stormtrooper, he doesn’t do it again despite the same distance being between them is laughable. Screenwriting these kinds of contrivances has really become the defining element of scripts from this century. Even in stuff I like, these sort of incredibly stupid decisions that characters make “so the story happens” really indicate that the people writing these stories just come up with plot points first and then push the characters through them, irregardless of whether it works or not. Whereas in my opinion, if you’ve written a character well enough, all you have to do is present the situation and you’ll surprise yourself at intuitively understanding the decision the character would make on their own.
The fight was also…extremely lackluster. The music is still all over the place, and especially the lack of the Imperial March is felt keenly whenever Vader’s around. I’ll certainly agree with some who have posted here that by this episode, it’s apparent that Obi-WAN’s characterization is remarkably inconsistent with how he’s been portrayed. Resorting to blasters when a mind trick would do, the PTSD flashback stuff, stumbling around like a drunk when confronted with Vader, snapping at Leia. She’s alright, I suppose. Far too precocious too often for a 9 year old, but she does look like Leia, and there are brief snippets where she feels like a real child. I liked the way Obi-Wan described the Force to her—it was simple and the analogy was perfect for her age. I also like the interaction they have talking about their families, how Leia asks if he’s her father, and his mention of a brother and his parents. I liked Tala, the Imperial officer quite a bit. Mole-Man Freck…left a little to be desired in the execution. A little too obviously a mole, a little too cartoonish, hardly any articulation in the mouth when he spoke.
Overall, my thoughts are that this show will run its course and, instead of being some pivotal or highly-loved piece of Star Wars, will be fine and forgettable. Not as bad as BOBF, not as divisive as TLJ, just…being a thing that happened. Kind of the way most people (average people, not necessarily the more obsessed of us) view Solo, which is pretty much not giving it much thought at all beyond it having happened.
Except I liked Solo much more unequivocally than this show.
Last edited:
Is it just me or is Kenobi a bit of a dumbass in this episode? "There's no-one here! They're never coming! Let's stomp off down the road!"
As for the Reva character... I really don't mind her. My only criticism would be that she's a bit one-dimensional and I blame the writers and directors for that.
As for the Reva character... I really don't mind her. My only criticism would be that she's a bit one-dimensional and I blame the writers and directors for that.
joberg
Legendary Member
Are we sure it's R2? Remember Obi-Wan saying to Luke "I don't remember ever owning a droid"
I was thinking it was R4, but he was destroyed in the opening battle of ROTS.Are we sure it's R2? Remember Obi-Wan saying to Luke "I don't remember ever owning a droid"
CopperRevan
Master Member
i was joking that it was R2 because that thing-a-magig popping up...if it does end up being him i would be shocked because it wouldnt make any sense...of course, because of the prequels Obiwan should know exactly who R2 is by the time ANH is set, yet seems to have amnesia...lolAre we sure it's R2? Remember Obi-Wan saying to Luke "I don't remember ever owning a droid"
CopperRevan
Master Member
could be that droid that blows up in front of Owen and Luke in ANH? who knows
