Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Agreed...the Hero he was meant to be in 1983...not the one that allowed himself to be further manipulated by his failures and fears in that ...other film

Yup... To justify the events of that... other film... It's implied that he just didn't learn Yoda's lesson about failure being the greatest teacher.

I know I've 'pontificated' a lot on the subject of how I see some things & I appreciate the dialog. I'll move along now... Move along.

LOL

 

[CopperRevan]

Yup... To justify the events of that... other film... It's implied that he just didn't learn Yoda's lesson about failure being the greatest teacher.

I know I've 'pontificated' a lot on the subject of how I see some things & I appreciate the dialog. I'll move along now... Move along.

LOL

Jedi mind tricks don't work on Jedi...or do they? I'll move on anyway ...lol,

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

...coupled with the fact that Kenobi's hand to hand combat didn't look rusty(to Psab Keel's point, he instinctively knew how to fight somehow). If he was fighting all the time and drawing attention to himself that way, it would be just as bad.

Kenobi's hand to hand combat was a bit rusty IMO. He took some hits that a Jedi master should've been able to avoid. At one point the only reason he seemed to escape were the drugs in his pocket. It seems like he didn't keep up a regular routine of practice which he should've, alone or with a sparring partner( either of which could be done without attracting attention). Maybe he did for a while and gave up. Who knows? But he certainly wasn't on point in terms of hand to hand combat.

 

[CT1138]

Kenobi's hand to hand combat was a bit rusty IMO. He took some hits that a Jedi master should've been able to avoid. At one point the only reason he seemed to escape were the drugs in his pocket. It seems like he didn't keep up a regular routine of practice which he should've, alone or with a sparring partner( either of which could be done without attracting attention). Maybe he did for a while and gave up. Who knows? But he certainly wasn't on point.

Just imagining how well he fought hand to hand in the Clone Wars, he was definitely rusty. I know there's the whole difference between animation and live action, but in acting, you can make any fight look as easy or difficult as you want it to, and Obi-Wan was definitely getting his butt kicked a few times. Heck, even levitating Leia seemed to be a difficult task for him, like he was stretching mental muscles he hadn't used in a very long time.

Then again, he DID also kick Greivous in his metal shin when he fought him. Maybe his hand to hand was never THAT good to begin with.

 

[Psab keel]

His fight with Jango is still one of my favorites.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I'd totally forgot about him kicking Grievous in the leg. Maybe that's why he punched a Zabrak in the head & cut his hand on the horns. LOL

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Kenobi's hand to hand combat was a bit rusty IMO. He took some hits that a Jedi master should've been able to avoid. At one point the only reason he seemed to escape were the drugs in his pocket. It seems like he didn't keep up a regular routine of practice which he should've, alone or with a sparring partner( either of which could be done without attracting attention). Maybe he did for a while and gave up. Who knows? But he certainly wasn't on point in terms of hand to hand combat.

I really hope that was on purpose and not just bad choreography, because it would be cool if it was on purpose.

I was gone the last four days, so I haven't read all the pages, but so far I liked the show. The only things that bugged me is that, as far as I know, Leia never knew she was adopted until ROTJ. I also want to know how that Reva chick knows about Anakin, to go to Tatooine for Obi-Wan, etc. At this point, she should be in Vader's position and the OT wouldn't happen, because she's got this!

Oh I did think the Clonetrooper panhandling, in full armor, was dumb. Most canon material shows the Empire reclaiming its old military equipment, breaking down ships, walkers, etc., so I would doubt they would let them keep their armor. I also think a 501st soldier would be kept around as a trainer for Stormtroopers. That's a very minor annoyance though.

 

[Paul Andrew]

I'm not going to debate the validity of any of these points, there's so much canon that you can probably find a source to back up any opinion, but for myself none of this stuff bothers me enough to fret over the show.

One thing I would add, is that it might behoove fans to start thinking of canon as evolving rather than as inviolable.

Other than that, frankly it's nice to see most of the picking of nits kept respectful in this thread.

 

[CT1138]

His fight with Jango is still one of my favorites.

Well, he did throw Jango off the platform and forgot that he was tied to him. I'm starting to lean towards Obi-Wan just being bad at hand to hand.

I was gone the last four days, so I haven't read all the pages, but so far I liked the show. The only things that bugged me is that, as far as I know, Leia never knew she was adopted until ROTJ. I also want to know how that Reva chick knows about Anakin, to go to Tatooine for Obi-Wan, etc. At this point, she should be in Vader's position and the OT wouldn't happen, because she's got this!

In Return of the Jedi, Luke asks Leia if she remembers her REAL mother (presumably he means Padme), so I think the argument can be made she was told she was adopted at sometime before Alderaan blew up.

Also, I was under the impression that the Inquisitors were on Tatooine for that young Jedi, not Kenobi. Reva WANTED to capture Kenobi, to get in good with Vader, but I think her being on Tatooine and wanting Kenobi were just coincidence. I don't think she knew Kenobi happened to be on the same planet they were hunting a different Jedi on. But I may be wrong. I've only watched each episode once so far, though I plan on watching them again before the next episode.

 

[Psab keel]

Canon under George was beholden to his creative whims. Sometimes that was good, sometimes that was bad. The best part of his approach was that he allowed different mediums to peaceably coexist along side one another without having to invalidate one another. Each piece of content would cater to different people. It was a brilliant marketing move that didn't rely on having to know every single piece of content inside and out to understand each story.

When Disney announced that their's was going to be unified under the Story Group, in theory that sounded good. In practice they haven't held to that idea at all. Perhaps they shouldn't have formed the group if they weren't going to follow through with that promise.

I'm glad people seem to be enjoying this series overall, though it will be interesting to see how people take to the end of the story.

 

[CopperRevan]

Is it possible we need to look closer at Obi-Wan's demeanor at the end of ROTS? I'm sorry, but he looked eager to the task of taking Luke and even perked up when Yoda mentioned communing with an old friend. So in 10 years nothing? Just a shell of himself and " I'm not who I used to be" ? Nope...he's just gonna sit around and mope, not train, no force use...sounds like a great plan to protect Luke. The more I think about it, the more it makes no sense. Meanwhile, " another Jedi" seems to have grown a bigger backbone and Obi-Wan doesn't sense his presence but he senses Obi-Wan's...what?...if he is closed off from the force, how does that work? Reva can pull a Kylo force mind read on the fake Jedi but says , " I won't try that on Owen Lars, I'll just act real tough and maybe he'll cave. You know what, I need to cut myself off from the force of thinking about this and then maybe it will all just make sense somehow .

 

[HMSwolfe]

Canon under George was beholden to his creative whims. Sometimes that was good, sometimes that was bad. The best part of his approach was that he allowed different mediums to peaceably coexist along side one another without having to invalidate one another. Each piece of content would cater to different people. It was a brilliant marketing move that didn't rely on having to know every single piece of content inside and out to understand each story.

When Disney announced that their's was going to be unified under the Story Group, in theory that sounded good. In practice they haven't held to that idea at all. Perhaps they shouldn't have formed the group if they weren't going to follow through with that promise.

I'm glad people seem to be enjoying this series overall, though it will be interesting to see how people take to the end of the story.

Again, this is really where I think we’re going to start seeing the “Marvel model” fall apart. I mean, it’s the same problem comic books have always had—too many stories that are all canon (that also all contradict each other) cause the eventual collapse of a storytelling universe. I definitely think it’s beginning to fail for Marvel (I can’t even imagine how confused someone would be going into Dr. Strange 2 who hadn’t been watching the D+ shows) and it’s happening with Star Wars, too. Simply put, movies are a more universal medium. Not everyone watches television, or watches it the same way they’d watch a movie. My parents were utterly confused by the ending of Solo—they’ve never seen a second of Clone Wars and never will—and were trying to understand how a character they thought was dead was thrown in the movie for a cameo. Heck, I knew through the grapevine Maul had returned and I was still confused.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

I'm not exactly sure how cutting oneself off from the force would work either as many have mentioned it doesn't quite make sense. That's like saying "I'm going to cut myself off from my nervous system" at will.

I'm also not keen on the analogy of the force being like a muscle and when it's not used long enough it goes into atrophy. If the force functions like a muscle then how naturally strong in the force someone is wouldn't matter that as they could build themselves up to be insanely powerful like a body builder. Natural ability and force connection would mean little as the sky would be the limit to anyone with a base connection.

 

[CopperRevan]

Atleast we know the real reason Moff Tarkan blew up Alderaan from such a long distance ..It once had a reputation that its security was so tight, not even a " Flea" could pass through it...he was wrong. Good thing Bail Organa beefed it up to protect his precious daughter, you know that it was better to pull one man away from Luke than to , you know ...KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR KID!!! Atleast Reva was somehow brilliant enough to outsmart everyone, including her own Master( who's dumber than a pile of rocks anyway). " The Jedi will hunt themselves "
Of course they will if we keep writing them like they are idiots...Vader knows nothing of Luke or Leia, yet Reva is able to find Kenobi and Flea kidnaps Leia. " oh, there goes little Leia again, going to the woods, her favorite place"...Hey Mom and Dad, how about put a few guards around there, especially ones with brains, weapons and have them wear something other than neon Star Trek uniforms... and you might want to use some of those royal funds to purchase some " Flea" traps or something...like, the whole universe depends on her safety.

 

[CT1138]

Is it possible we need to look closer at Obi-Wan's demeanor at the end of ROTS? I'm sorry, but he looked eager to the task of taking Luke and even perked up when Yoda mentioned communing with an old friend. So in 10 years nothing? Just a shell of himself and " I'm not who I used to be" ? Nope...he's just gonna sit around and mope, not train, no force use...sounds like a great plan to protect Luke. The more I think about it, the more it makes no sense. Meanwhile, " another Jedi" seems to have grown a bigger backbone and Obi-Wan doesn't sense his presence but he senses Obi-Wan's...what?...if he is closed off from the force, how does that work? Reva can pull a Kylo force mind read on the fake Jedi but says , " I won't try that on Owen Lars, I'll just act real tough and maybe he'll cave. You know what, I need to cut myself off from the force of thinking about this and then maybe it will all just make sense somehow .

Couple ideas on this...

I've always had a theory that if the Force is produced by life, then this is why Obi-Wan's ghost was less "present" on Hoth than on Dagobah, and voice only in space. There's no life in space. The small amount of life on the Death Star was just enough for Obi-Wan to vocalize to Luke. On Hoth he was barely formed, and seemed capable of only lingering. But on Dagobah, he could not only form a full body, but was able to physically interact with the real world. Dagobah had massive lifeform readings, according to Luke, so it makes sense that he could form a more solid Force presence there.

In turn, Tatooine is also a mostly lifeless dustball, and Qui-Gon can't get enough life-force to properly communicate with Obi-Wan.


Coupled with this, Obi-Wan hasn't exactly cut himself off from the Force like Luke did, but rather is masking his presence in it like Palpatine did. Obi-Wan can still use the Force, but he's hiding himself from other Forcr users, and Qui-Gon gets blocked by the firewall inadvertently. Now that Obi-Wan is no longer masking his presence and hiding in a lifeless desert, he'll now begin getting contacted by Qui-Gon.

As for Reva's mind trick, maybe like the classic mind-trick, this mind-reading trick only works on the weak-minded, and Owen Lars is not weak-minded, while Poe Dameron... is.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

I'm not going to debate the validity of any of these points, there's so much canon that you can probably find a source to back up any opinion, but for myself none of this stuff bothers me enough to fret over the show.

Seems more like discussing and trying to figure things out which comes from interest in the subject and wanting to understand it than fretting. Nothing seems to be causing genuine alarm IMO. As for nitpicks one person's trash is another person's treasure? Having different priorities and ideas should be celebrated IMO.

One thing I would add, is that it might behoove fans to start thinking of canon as evolving rather than as inviolable.

Agreed. The point of contention is what is immutable (as some things should be) and what can evolve? Do we all trust that those decisions will be made with the best interest of the story over selling content?

For example. What if at some point new canon were to decide that Obi-Wan and Padme were also secret lovers and that Obi-Wan actually fathered Luke and Leia? One might say that's ridiculous and will never happen. Others would disagree after the retcons we've seen and the belief that the mouse will do anything as long as it's likely to sell. I doubt that particular example would occur but you get the drift. Why some prefer OT/PT canon to just be left alone.

 

[CT1138]

For example. What if at some point new canon were to decide that Obi-Wan and Padme were also secret lovers and that Obi-Wan actually fathered Luke and Leia? One might say that's ridiculous and will never happen. Others would disagree after the retcons we've seen and the belief that the mouse will do anything as long as it's likely to sell. I doubt that particular example would occur but you get the drift. Why some prefer OT/PT canon to just be left alone.

Actually, I believe that was in fact a subplot in the shooting script that didn't fully make it into the final movie. Part of Anakin's rift with Padme and Obi-Wan was that he became paranoid that Padme and Obi-Wan may have been sleeping together and Padme's child may not be his. He was becoming suspicious that Obi-Wan wasn't being completely forthright about why he kept popping into Padme's apartment to check on Anakin.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

Actually, I believe that was in fact a subplot in the shooting script that didn't fully make it into the final movie. Part of Anakin's rift with Padme and Obi-Wan was that he became paranoid that Padme and Obi-Wan may have been sleeping together and Padme's child may not be his. He was becoming suspicious that Obi-Wan wasn't being completely forthright about why he kept popping into Padme's apartment to check on Anakin.

Yes indeed, I recall. The doubt that I expressed that that example would be used in a retcon was in regards to Obi-Wan actually being the father of Luke and Leia.

 

[Psab keel]

I too heard this subplot early into the days when the ROTS plot points were leaking. If it had played out like in Othello, it could have been absolutely brilliant. No true affair, but Anakin perceives one at the urging and manipulation of Palpatine, which would have involved the four leads of that trilogy (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, and Palpatine) and could have been used to great effect.

 

[Eruonen]

I too heard this subplot early into the days when the ROTS plot points were leaking. If it had played out like in Othello, it could have been absolutely brilliant. No true affair, but Anakin perceives one at the urging and manipulation of Palpatine, which would have involved the four leads of that trilogy (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, and Palpatine) and could have been used to great effect.

This would have made a lot more of Anakin’s fall make sense. Honestly many clues to this idea are present even in the finished film. Enough that I saw this as part of Anakin’s motivation even though I’d never heard that this was actually considered to be a real plot point until recently. The only thing that’s really lacking is Palpatine mentioning it directly.