Star Wars EU - the things it got really wrong

[KrangPrime]

I've had these things on my iphone for so long, I've forgotten how long they've been there ;o)..

I still have scoundrels on there and that has to be at least a few years old now.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

A couple, yeah. *heh*

--Jonah

 

[KrangPrime]

I finally got through lords of the sith. Not bad. I kind of cringed when I saw that the lead imperial moff was a lesbian. didn't think they had that in the star wars universe.
there where also a number of continuity errors. the number of imperial guards seemed to change once or twice. vader igniting his lightsaber was also an error or two once or twice.

other than that, it wasn't bad, even if you knew the rebels had no chance in succeeding.

Tarkin wasn't bad either..but the ending was kind of meh....it just kind of stopped.

Finally deciding to tackle Razors Edge next. will probably go after scoundrels after that. only about 4 books to go and then i'll have read everything minus the old republic books and horror novels.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Just to point out -- these aren't EU. The EU ended with Honor Among Thieves in March of 2014. Everything since then is canon, and I'm pretty sure there's a thread for discussion of the new canon ancillary materials...

[ETA: There are two -- seelsa73's and Bryancd's. They should actually probably be merged.]

--Jonah

 

[glunark]

Why would the star wars universe not have lesbians?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Sinjir in Aftermath is gay. *shrug* Really don't think it matters much. More realistic representation of a cross-section of a species (humanity), and I won't speculate on nonhuman species.

--Jonah

 

[KrangPrime]

Why would the star wars universe not have lesbians?

good point.. it just seemed weird after 20 years or so that they would suddenly bring it up now. but, oh well..

- - - Updated - - -

Just to point out -- these aren't EU. The EU ended with Honor Among Thieves in March of 2014. Everything since then is canon, and I'm pretty sure there's a thread for discussion of the new canon ancillary materials...

[ETA: There are two -- seelsa73's and Bryancd's. They should actually probably be merged.]

--Jonah

true.....but it's still kind of the expanded universe, isn't it? It's just a NEW Expanded Universe...kind of curious what the definition of expanded universe actually is now. was it only because the stories where un official? if so, and now that the stories are official, what nickname should we give it? actually kind of an interesting dilema just to keep the two universes separate now that you bring it up.


I'll try and keep it to past books though...

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

true.....but it's still kind of the expanded universe, isn't it? It's just a NEW Expanded Universe...kind of curious what the definition of expanded universe actually is now. was it only because the stories where un official? if so, and now that the stories are official, what nickname should we give it? actually kind of an interesting dilema just to keep the two universes separate now that you bring it up.

The Expanded Universe was more and more (as time went on) made to be internally consistent, but the movies always trumped it. George couldn't be bothered to keep up on what was happening in books or comics or games and reserved the right to blithely overwrite anything published in the EU. So it was "canon-ish". Or, more accurately, "not canon until it is". Sometimes things like the name Coruscant made it in -- purely by chance, George actually caught enough of the Heir to the Empire trilogy he saw the pre-Imperial name for the planet and liked it. But then a film later he did a merry dance on the ruins of all the backstories the EU had put forth for Boba Fett. To try to wring some continuity from both levels of canon, EU sources after AOTC did some impressive contortions to try to make everything "true... from a certain point of view".

Now, though, everything published is on the same level as the films and TV series. The Story Group is riding herd on all of it, so there's no need to worry about a filmmaker not giving a darn about the other stuff and potentially contradicting it. All the new books, starting with A New Dawn (appropriately) are as canon as the films. All the new Marvel comics are as canon as the films. The core storyline of Star Wars: Uprising (the app game) is canon. The Battle of Jakku that will be in the first DLC for Battlefront will be canon (gameplay-mechanics "artistic liberties" aside). Stuff in these new books and games and comics will be referenced in the new films and episodes of Rebels, rather than the different media coexisting kind of uncomfortably in the same space with the one not looking at or acknowledging the other, and the creative Powers That Be are going to be taking pains not to contradict, invalidate, or nullify anything that comes out in said books, games, and comics.

So it's not so much an "Expanded Universe", as the old EU was, where there were the films... and then there was everything else. Now it's all "the Star Wars canon" (except for what isn't). The term is no longer relevant or applicable to how the new ancillary content is viewed by Lucasfilm.

--Jonah

 

[KrangPrime]

huh...not a bad way to look at it. The Star Wars Cannon isn't abad term either ;o)

last post on newer books....I looked at Star Wars Aftermath abit this afternoon. and this one image is extremely depressing for EU fans ;o).
it's amazing the amount of emotion it brought out in me as images of reading heir to the empire at the jersey shore each summer way back in 1991 popped back up in my mind .

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

The only depressing part to me is that they just steamrolled the entire EU because they were too lazy. I would have rather them have looked at it (as they seemed to allude to initially) and keep the very good stories and get rid of the bad or things that would interfere too much. Obviously you completely get rid of everything post ROTJ, but there's no real reason to get rid of Clone Wars stories or things before that. Really the only things I really would miss, as in not part of official canon, are the Darth Bane novels, Republic Commando, and both X-Wing series (both of which would obviously interfere with the post ROTJ galaxy).

 

[Riceball]

The only depressing part to me is that they just steamrolled the entire EU because they were too lazy. I would have rather them have looked at it (as they seemed to allude to initially) and keep the very good stories and get rid of the bad or things that would interfere too much. Obviously you completely get rid of everything post ROTJ, but there's no real reason to get rid of Clone Wars stories or things before that. Really the only things I really would miss, as in not part of official canon, are the Darth Bane novels, Republic Commando, and both X-Wing series (both of which would obviously interfere with the post ROTJ galaxy).

Sure they steamrolled it but it's not like they're not picking and choosing which parts of the old EU they're choosing to incorporate into the new canon. I don't think that they're being lazy, just smart, it's far easier to say it's all non-canon until they say it is rather than saying it all is until they choose to invalidate it. This way they don't have people constantly pissing and moaning about why this story, character, setting, etc. remained canon while something else isn't or why it was for X amount of time but now is not. Now they can just say that none of it counts for now but some of it might find its way back at a later date when they've had time to go over what they like and don't like or what fits and what doesn't.

 

[Solo4114]

Sure they steamrolled it but it's not like they're not picking and choosing which parts of the old EU they're choosing to incorporate into the new canon. I don't think that they're being lazy, just smart, it's far easier to say it's all non-canon until they say it is rather than saying it all is until they choose to invalidate it. This way they don't have people constantly pissing and moaning about why this story, character, setting, etc. remained canon while something else isn't or why it was for X amount of time but now is not. Now they can just say that none of it counts for now but some of it might find its way back at a later date when they've had time to go over what they like and don't like or what fits and what doesn't.

Yeah, and they're still keeping a lot of the "sourcebook" level material. Facts about the universe, geography/astrography, technology, races, etc. That stuff I would expect to really stick around.

But things like what Clone XYZ did at ABC point in the Clone Wars, that's probably gone unless it gets explicitly incorporated somehow.

And the post-ROTJ stuff really needed to go.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

About the only EU stuff that's gone-gone are certain things from the range of the movies, and everything post-ROTJ is not going to be back in in any familiar form, if at all. Legacy might still happen in some form, but the specifics are wiped out. Looking at my bookcase and holding in mind all the comics I have in their short-boxes and games of various kinds, about 33% of it all are Prequel-era and earlier, and not very problematic; about 15% are OT-era and also still largely fine; everything else is post-ROTJ and I gotta say there's a lot more that I feel doesn't work than does in that body -- New Jedi Order especially. So, frankly, I'm less than shattered the stuff that likely won't make it into the canon is gone. *heh* And chuffed as hell that the good stuff already is making it into canon.

--Jonah

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I do still have hope. The Interdictor showing up on Rebels is one good sign they are actually either looking for EU tech that will work or someone there was championing its inclusion. That's what bugs me about the TFA TIE Fighters, that they had two cool EU designs (TIE Defender and Advanced/Avenger) that were cool. The Avenger in particular, looks like a logical progression from Vader's TIE prototype. I'm still hoping they will work Kyle Katarn in there somewhere. That character would fit into Rebels very well, IMO.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

There aren't even any Bombers or Interceptors in evidence. I'm going with the First Order not being an Imperial Remnant, but someone adopting scavenged Imperial trapping to make themselves feel/seem more legit. Corollary, this also means I'm still hoping there is an Imperial remnant out there that is also opposed to the First Order and shows up at some point to save Our Heroes' backsides... and they'd have all the Interceptors and Avengers and Defenders and Scimitars and such.

--Jonah

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Same here. It would also allow for a three way fight or using the other Imperial remnants in other movies.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

One of the things I loved about the Legacy comics was that it showed the problem wasn't the Empire, but the Emperor. Wasn't terribly keen on the uniforms, but I liked the new TIEs, I liked the evolved Stormtrooper armor/helmets, I loved the Imperial Knights... *shrug* While the individual characters may not be the same, and the exact storyline is scrubbed, I do hope they take inspiration from that much, at least. Without getting spoilery with the various rumors floating around about who's where on the good-evil spectrum in TFA, I do definitely want to see somewhere in this new trilogy a group still maintaining (albeit smaller) a Galactic Empire, but actually doing good... real hearts-and-minds stuff. South Korea as opposed to North -- still a dictatorship, but a much more benevolent one. Play with the "certain point of view" that so much of the saga has depended on.

--Jonah

 

[Riceball]

One of the things I loved about the Legacy comics was that it showed the problem wasn't the Empire, but the Emperor. Wasn't terribly keen on the uniforms, but I liked the new TIEs, I liked the evolved Stormtrooper armor/helmets, I loved the Imperial Knights... *shrug* While the individual characters may not be the same, and the exact storyline is scrubbed, I do hope they take inspiration from that much, at least. Without getting spoilery with the various rumors floating around about who's where on the good-evil spectrum in TFA, I do definitely want to see somewhere in this new trilogy a group still maintaining (albeit smaller) a Galactic Empire, but actually doing good... real hearts-and-minds stuff. South Korea as opposed to North -- still a dictatorship, but a much more benevolent one. Play with the "certain point of view" that so much of the saga has depended on.

--Jonah

Not to nitpick but South Korea is no longer a dictatorship, benign or otherwise, they've been democratic for a while now, same with Taiwan. I'm not actually sure that there are any benign dictatorships left anywhere, not that it matters because I understand where you're coming from and agree with you, it would be interesting to see a more benign version of the Empire. The only problem with that is that Star Wars has always been pretty black and white, everything is mostly good or evil, at least in the movies. The Clone Wars and Rebels, to a degree, have been showing more grey but overall the universe has no shades of grey, the closest to that are the civilians but we never get to see much of anything from the point of view of the average Imperial citizen, much less how they feel about the Empire and by extension, the Emperor.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I do seem to remember in some of the old EU that they said for the average citizen it was just a change in the name, it didn't really affect them. Initially at least. It would be an interesting viewpoint to explore in Rebels or some format.

 

[Solos blaster]

The REAL reason that the Yuuzhan Vong series had to be 20 freakin novels long....especially when in some of them the Republic was winning the "big battle" in the chapters just to get back to them and no for now reason their losing?! It really seemed to be dragged out for at least 10 novels. That series REALLY wore me out and started my downward spiral with the EU...