Star Trek: Questions you always wanted answers to
- Thread starter Riceball
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Riceball
Master Member
I've always taken the name to mean that 10 Forward is located on the forward part of deck10. In other words, somewhere along the leading edge of the primary hull.
robn1
Master Member
Ten Forward is on deck ten, at the front lower edge of the saucer. Forward means it's the most forward part of the ship.
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lca...ek-the-next-generation-enterprise-sheet-4.jpg
Riceball, that's deck 9 you've circled, there. Deck 10 is the lower saucer rim. Note window curvature. And the exterior view in "The Child".
I've always wanted to see the main arboretum's windows from the inside:
Or the room behind those windows at the front of deck 2:
And I think the first deck below the secondary hull rim is the closest to "windows on the floor":
I've always wanted to see the main arboretum's windows from the inside:
Or the room behind those windows at the front of deck 2:
And I think the first deck below the secondary hull rim is the closest to "windows on the floor":
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I watched an episode of TNG last night before I went to bed and now you had me trying to figure out the dang windows while watching the intro! 
It was the episode where Worf had to deliver Keiko's baby, which was great.
It was the episode where Worf had to deliver Keiko's baby, which was great.
Riceball
Master Member
Yeah, you're right, but it's not my picture actually, at least I didn't circle it, it's just something that I found. But, I did realize that Ten Forward was on the lower half of the saucer after I posted that pic but I didn't bother removing and replacing it with something more accurate.
Looking at the pic of the model you posted, I think that the lowest level of the secondary hull also qualify as closest to "windows" on the floor". The very last set of windows look like they're almost at the very bottom of the Enterprise's hull.
The first twenty seconds or so of this do a good job of showing Ten Forward in context:
Strikerkc
Sr Member
There is an admittedly chauvinistic theory that bipedal (ish) locomotion, thus raising the head/sensory cluster up over the tall grass for further viewing (and earlier awareness of approaching danger), and ... this is rationalization for budgetary considerations.
There was also a TNG episode (two parter?) where the enterprise and a few other folks finished the archeology research of some old buddy of Picard's, and got a to watch a genetically stored message from a race of bi-pedal aliens that looked like a combination of every main race from the shows, where the message went...
"Hey, cool deal, if you're watching this, we were super cool, and thought all of you different rats and monkeys on different worlds could use some of our DNA. So we forcefully made you all by splicing our awesome genes into your dirt water poison genes, and hid this message in your blood. We made you all a little different so you'd hate each other if you ever met, but we hope you get along anyways, thus proving how awesome our genes are; also we think it will mean you can all shag each other hand have half kids, since you're all mostly us anyways. Also, we're all dead, LoLz, Deuces!"
shadowwolf
New Member
In the TOS episode Miri,the Enterprise finds another planet Earth with children on it.Yet we never get a follow up to that episode.I was hoping TNG might have revisited it to see how it turned out.
I always assumed it was he knew what Khan blamed him for in general; i.e. banishing him to a deserted planet, foiling his take over of the Enterprise and galactic domination, taking away his white three-piece suit and black tie, etc.
It's sort of like how Chekov knew who Khan was when he wasn't on board the Enterprise yet when Space Seed happened... you just have to accept it....
Windows on the floors were discussed in the early days of TNG (behind the scenes). The producers and tech folks were very much aware that the model as designed would put some windows on or very near the floor. They were OK with this and felt there may be all kinds of reasons that a window might be located in that way and wanted to leave the option open for writers to explore. While this was never really used in an episode it goes into the bigger idea that every room on the Enterprise was not determined in advance. There were spaces that could be filled in for future story needs.
Laspector
Master Member
In the Next Generation episode The Measure of a Man why was (at first) Data considered property of Starfleet? I wasn't aware that Dr. Singh was working for The Federation when he made Data. Was he part of Starfleet? I thought Data joined Starfleet of his own free will. Therefore, he should be able to resign as any other member. Right?
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The reason was the question about Data's ability to make his own choices and whether or not he was a sentient, sapient being, spearheaded by a Starfleet science officer with delusions of grandeur about making more Datas to ease life for the Federation and Starfleet's organic citizens. It started off as a "simple" transfer order for Data, but once the scope and reason of why he was being transferred became apparent, the trial needed to take place. What was going to happen to Data was tantamount to, say, Worf being transferred to Starfleet Medical in order to be examined and experimented on to see what makes Klingons tick. It is, at it's very core, torture. The argument was that Data was on the same level of, say, a transporter or a phaser, and as such, disassembly was not torture.
Laspector
Master Member
Yes, but why would he be labelled as property if he was not Starfleet property to begin with? They were telling him he couldn't resign because he was property, but since he was not made out of Starfleet materials, seems there is no way they could label him as such.
Unless, of course, Dr. Singh was part of Starfeet. Was he?
Unless, of course, Dr. Singh was part of Starfeet. Was he?
They probably looked at it like we would a vehicle. A vehicle may be made by a manufacturer, but it belongs to the end user, not the manufacturer. The end user does not provide the steel, fabric, plastic, rubber, and electronics that make up a car, but nevertheless, the car does belong to them.
Data may have been built by Soong, but by being commissioned in Starfleet, he was now a machine being used exclusively by Starfleet, and therefore, the property of Starfleet. At least that was the reasoning.
As to how he could be allowed to join Starfleet of his own free will while later being told that he does not have that freedom, that is a level of hypocrisy that was not explored in the episode.
"Oh you say that he can't resign because he is Starfleet ,property and that he is property because he does not meet the qualifications for sentient life. If that is true, then he could never have become Starfleet property under your interpretation at all because he could not have joined of his own free will. You cannot have it both ways. By your definition, he cannot be property because he was neither given to you by Dr. Soong nor traded for other goods or services. His contract with Starfleet would have been rendered null and void, at which time he would become property of Soong or his estate. Either way, Starfleet has no claim."
Riceball
Master Member
That's not really an exact analogy since, in this case, the manufacturer's don't work for the end user and the cars are sold to the end user. So, unless Data was sold to Starfleet, your analogy doesn't apply. However, if Dr. Soong was in the employ of Starfleet/the Federation then it could be in his contract that anything that he creates while under contract/employ with the Starfleet belongs to Starfleet even when/if his contract ends whether voluntarily or involuntarily/
I know it doesn't apply. That's the exact reason why I put it there, to illustrate that it does not apply. Soong was presumed dead at that point, having died in the Crystalline Entity attack. Data was found and reactivated by the crew of the USS Tripoli, an event that eventually spurred him to join Starfleet (interestingly, Bruce Maddox didn't want him to enroll then either, instead wanting to use Data to further his own cybernetics research... I guess it was a lifelong science-boner for him).
No, the fact that he was not created by Starfleet or by anyone in the employ of Starfleet means that Starfleet has exactly zero claim on him.
I would have thought that those decisions would have been made once Data joined Starfleet, presumably when he went to the Academy (or did he?).
He did, and they were, but only so far as admissions were concerned. Maddox wanted to continue to push the issue, and this wound up involving Starfleet's JAG equivalent, who eventually sided with Data and Picard, declaring Data to be a sentient being with all rights and privileges therein, which shut Maddox down. Data did encourage Maddox to continue his research, though, as he saw some value in his work. It's just that Maddox's plans could not guarantee the safety of Data's positronic net, which would leave him a lifeless shell if something did go wrong. Basically Maddox wanted to risk Data's very existence just to get ahead in his own research.
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