Star Trek Picard Season Three

Okay, that was a little much. I'm not generally one who yells about "fanservice" whenever writers use continuity, but jeez. It felt like they came up with a plan to cram as many references and familiar things into the episode as possible, then worked backwards to find justifications for it. The logic of the story really didn't hold together for me.

Also, I just don't care about Data any more. You killed him twice. Let it go.


Loved the laughs. They were well earned.

The tone hit wrong for me. With the premise of the Titan being hunted, if any time was right for a tense thriller, it was this episode. Instead we got a lark.

I'd love a lightweight episode somewhere this season, but this wasn't the right premise for it.

A letdown after the prior five episodes. Then again, when has Trek ever had a six episode run of greatness?
 
My only niggle is they got the CG TOS ship all wrong.

for reference:
NewJersey.png


Proportions seem ok to me. It's a late build we haven't seen before so the hull plating could just look like that, without conflicting with anything.
 
for reference:
View attachment 1682654

Proportions seem ok to me. It's a late build we haven't seen before so the hull plating could just look like that, without conflicting with anything.
It’s not the plating that bothers me at all (my own E has it). It’s the proportions, especially the saucer, and the “brackets” on the sides of the secondary hull by the main sensor dish—they stick out the way they did on the old AMT model kit, as opposed to being recessed as on the actual original model. I really love the original design, and it always pains me when the big boys get it wrong—especially when they can just call in Gary Kerr, Petri Blomqvist, and Bill George.
 
At least they didn't go with the Strange New Worlds version of a Constitution.

No kidding.

Of course, that in itself speaks to how far off the rails things have gone.

First, they claim that KurtzmanTREK is canon, which is nonsense, since the discrepancies are too massive to reconcile. To the point that Memory Alpha and other sources now say that the Enterprise was refitted from its first pilot version to the STD/SNW version, then back to the second pilot and production versions.


Now, we see a proper-ish Constitution, which shows us that either:

1. It’s actually canonical that the Enterprise underwent a radical change in size and appearance for a few years, then went back to basically how she’d previously looked, which is totally insane;

Or…

2. The production team is so desperate to win fans back with nostalgia that they will abandon their own deliberate retcon of the Constitution design in favor of an indulgent Memba Berries sequence that flies in the face of their own 2017-present canon.

In recent years, we seen a great many preemptive attacks on fans before or show a movie even comes out, which speaks to a basic lack of confidence from the studio in its own product. So, option # 2 seems likely.
 
I'm a little iffy on the scales of the the ships, especially if all the rings are the same size, but as to this point:

It’s actually canonical that the Enterprise underwent a radical change in size

Even when using the TOS design I think it's clear the ship is now over 400 meters. So no radical size change between refits, she's always that big. Basically if you upscale the Constitution and Excelsior and leave the Ambassador and newer alone, everything makes way more sense from a Trek Tech perspective. And the ships still get bigger with each generation, so no issue there.
 
I'm a little iffy on the scales of the the ships, especially if all the rings are the same size, but as to this point:



Even when using the TOS design I think it's clear the ship is now over 400 meters. So no radical size change between refits, she's always that big. Basically if you upscale the Constitution and Excelsior and leave the Ambassador and newer alone, everything makes way more sense from a Trek Tech perspective. And the ships still get bigger with each generation, so no issue there.
Not doing the math myself here (because lawyer) but the original model is 11’ 2” long and 1/87 (HO) scale. So that would be TOS canon. No idea how that squares with the Jeffries drawing of the E next to the aircraft carrier.
 
Not doing the math myself here (because lawyer) but the original model is 11’ 2” long and 1/87 (HO) scale. So that would be TOS canon. No idea how that squares with the Jeffries drawing of the E next to the aircraft carrier.

if it's HO scale that would be 971.5 feet, not the 947 feet everyone says. But neither of those numbers are canon unless the super tiny blurry scale on that one diagram overrides the fact that the celing heights we saw in every episode can't fit on a 947' ship. I'm fine with the TOS Enterprise being 1400ish feet long. For one thing, we can stop arguing about the offset bridge.
 
I started rewatching Voyager, I'm on episode 6, where Paris takes Kim to his holodeck recreation of the bar he hung out in during his academy training.

Why is it that with the limitless possibilities of holodeck technology that the crews just keep recreating bars? Picard does it on the Titan, Paris does it on Voyager, Bashir does it on DS9 (they hung out in a holosuite simulation of a bar within Quark's bar)! They must think, "hey, we live in confined spaces in outer space, with mostly only black space out the few windows we have, so let's use our leisure time sitting around and drinking in confined, window-less bars!"

The only logical answer is that the writers of these shows are all alcoholics.
To carry forward that theme, and on a one year mark for me, I saw the latest episode and I must quote:

Data:
I hate this! It is revolting!

Guinan:
More?

Data:
Please!
 
Then again, when has Trek ever had a six episode run of greatness?
Well, TOS definitely didn't. They followed up the amazing Mirror, Mirror with the very silly The Apple, and Devil in the Dark and Errand of Mercy with the execrable Alternative Factor. But then came Doomsday Machine and City on the Edge of Forever, respectively. Very uneven.

OK, the fact that I just rattled that off the top of my head is very disturbing... :p

As for fan service vs. continuity, my opinion of it varies with its centrality to the story. Bringing Kirk Thatcher back last season was stupid and annoying. But the AI twist in today's episode I thought was nicely done because it was well integrated with the plot. Gratuitous member berries are irritating, but well-integrated callbacks can be highly entertaining. YMMV, of course.
 
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Well, TOS definitely didn't. They followed up the amazing Mirror, Mirror with the very silly The Apple, and Devil in the Dark and Errand of Mercy with the execrable Alternative Factor. But then came Doomsday Machine and City on the Edge of Forever, respectively. Very uneven.

OK, the fact that I just rattled that off the top of my head is very disturbing... :p

As for fan service vs. continuity, my opinion of it varies with its centrality to the story. Bringing Kirk Thatcher back last season was stupid and annoying. But the AI twist in today's episode I thought was nicely done because it was well integrated with the plot. Gratuitous member berries are irritating, but well-integrated callbacks can be highly entertaining. YMMV, of course.

Personally, I feel that good writing comes down to organic storytelling and internal logic. Things need to make a reasonable degree of sense. Both BREAKING BAD and BETTER CALL SAUL have become a benchmark for me in this regard, since the writers were laser-focused on the story and characters. Getting inside the characters’ heads, and asking, “Would Character X actually say or do Y?”. The result of this kind of “Method writing” was an exceptionally high degree of quality and believability.

But, so many other times, it’s easy to be pulled out of a story because the writers just wanted to insert a dumb joke or wallow in fanservice. Bending the characters to do or say what the writers WANT them to. As a hypotherical example, two characters remembering and referencing the exact words of a specific conversation from years (or even decades) before can seem far-fetched. Most people don’t speak like they just pulled out the Blu-Ray season set of a previous year of their life to review the exact words they spoke, y’know? Whereas writers can (and have) do exactly that.

I think TNG proper found a very good balance in terms of being true to what had come before, but not wallowing in wink-wink references and homages. Probably the closest example of fanservice we got was Scotty showing up in “Relics”, but even that made sense in context, and Scotty’s aggrieved references to prior episodes served the overall plot of him coming to grips with being a 24th Century version of Rip Van Winkle.

I’ve developed a high sensitivity to scenes and moments where writers are writing from the outside-in instead of the inside-out. Meta references, hanging lampshades on previous plot holes and fan complaints, fan-service moments which don’t logically and organically serve to move the plot forward, illuminate characters, or both.

I just rewatched BATMAN RETURNS the other night, and there’s that moment where Bruce Wayne brings up the fact that Alfred brought Vicki Vale into the Batcave and blew Batman’s secret identity in the first film, which was a moment many fans had taken issue with. On the one hand, it’s a funny moment which builds a connection between the two films, and Michael Keaton’s delivery is properly humorous. On the other hand, it’s the writers stopping the story to take a moment to acknowledge a fan complaint. Is this something that, in context, Bruce Wayne would say?

I often find myself thinking about how writers can be so easily led away from a ruthless focus on internal logic and into a land of pointless distractions.
 
Personally, I feel that good writing comes down to organic storytelling and internal logic. Things need to make a reasonable degree of sense. Both BREAKING BAD and BETTER CALL SAUL have become a benchmark for me in this regard, since the writers were laser-focused on the story and characters. Getting inside the characters’ heads, and asking, “Would Character X actually say or do Y?”. The result of this kind of “Method writing” was an exceptionally high degree of quality and believability.

But, so many other times, it’s easy to be pulled out of a story because the writers just wanted to insert a dumb joke or wallow in fanservice. Bending the characters to do or say what the writers WANT them to. As a hypotherical example, two characters remembering and referencing the exact words of a specific conversation from years (or even decades) before can seem far-fetched. Most people don’t speak like they just pulled out the Blu-Ray season set of a previous year of their life to review the exact words they spoke, y’know? Whereas writers can (and have) do exactly that.

I think TNG proper found a very good balance in terms of being true to what had come before, but not wallowing in wink-wink references and homages. Probably the closest example of fanservice we got was Scotty showing up in “Relics”, but even that made sense in context, and Scotty’s aggrieved references to prior episodes served the overall plot of him coming to grips with being a 24th Century version of Rip Van Winkle.

I’ve developed a high sensitivity to scenes and moments where writers are writing from the outside-in instead of the inside-out. Meta references, hanging lampshades on previous plot holes and fan complaints, fan-service moments which don’t logically and organically serve to move the plot forward, illuminate characters, or both.

I just rewatched BATMAN RETURNS the other night, and there’s that moment where Bruce Wayne brings up the fact that Alfred brought Vicki Vale into the Batcave and blew Batman’s secret identity in the first film, which was a moment many fans had taken issue with. On the one hand, it’s a funny moment which builds a connection between the two films, and Michael Keaton’s delivery is properly humorous. On the other hand, it’s the writers stopping the story to take a moment to acknowledge a fan complaint. Is this something that, in context, Bruce Wayne would say?

I often find myself thinking about how writers can be so easily led away from a ruthless focus on internal logic and into a land of pointless distractions.
In this case, it's the writers trying to force fit the characters not just into a nonsensical story, but doing so in a way that breaks these characters. I really don't like how they've bent these folks into horrific simulacrums that are worse than parodies of the originals.

It's almost like someone took Reginald Barclay's holodeck programs with his versions of the characters, and poured in about 50 gallons of Stephen King and 50 gallons of just about any Zemeckis Brothers films.
 
In this case, it's the writers trying to force fit the characters not just into a nonsensical story, but doing so in a way that breaks these characters. I really don't like how they've bent these folks into horrific simulacrums that are worse than parodies of the originals.

It's almost like someone took Reginald Barclay's holodeck programs with his versions of the characters, and poured in about 50 gallons of Stephen King and 50 gallons of just about any Zemeckis Brothers films.


The first question I always ask when watching something is, “Are the writers telling a story about the characters, or are they just using the characters to tell the story they want to tell?”.

To use one of my favorite examples of the former: James Kirk in THE WRATH OF KHAN. Still the guy we knew from TOS, but now older, more melancholy, and grappling with different problems in a different stage in his life. As opposed to the forced and immature behavior caused by his midlife crisis in THE MOTION PICTURE, I actually believe that the guy in TWOK is still the guy from TOS. Not to knock TMP, but Kirk was not well-served by that film, although I do appreciate what they were going for.

To use a particularly painful example of the latter…Jake Skywalker. An unrecognizable version of one of cinema’s greatest heroes, bent and twisted by various stupid and illogical plot contrivances and out-of-character behaviors in order to serve the plot function dictated by The King of The Manbabies.


Writing is an amazing thing. You can literally have the same actor portraying the same character as in the source material, and yet they can seem like a completely different character, thanks to bad writing. Jean-Luc Picard is a good example of this.
 
Personally, I feel that good writing comes down to organic storytelling and internal logic. Things need to make a reasonable degree of sense. Both BREAKING BAD and BETTER CALL SAUL have become a benchmark for me in this regard, since the writers were laser-focused on the story and characters. Getting inside the characters’ heads, and asking, “Would Character X actually say or do Y?”. The result of this kind of “Method writing” was an exceptionally high degree of quality and believability.

But, so many other times, it’s easy to be pulled out of a story because the writers just wanted to insert a dumb joke or wallow in fanservice. Bending the characters to do or say what the writers WANT them to. As a hypotherical example, two characters remembering and referencing the exact words of a specific conversation from years (or even decades) before can seem far-fetched. Most people don’t speak like they just pulled out the Blu-Ray season set of a previous year of their life to review the exact words they spoke, y’know? Whereas writers can (and have) do exactly that.

I think TNG proper found a very good balance in terms of being true to what had come before, but not wallowing in wink-wink references and homages. Probably the closest example of fanservice we got was Scotty showing up in “Relics”, but even that made sense in context, and Scotty’s aggrieved references to prior episodes served the overall plot of him coming to grips with being a 24th Century version of Rip Van Winkle.

I’ve developed a high sensitivity to scenes and moments where writers are writing from the outside-in instead of the inside-out. Meta references, hanging lampshades on previous plot holes and fan complaints, fan-service moments which don’t logically and organically serve to move the plot forward, illuminate characters, or both.

I just rewatched BATMAN RETURNS the other night, and there’s that moment where Bruce Wayne brings up the fact that Alfred brought Vicki Vale into the Batcave and blew Batman’s secret identity in the first film, which was a moment many fans had taken issue with. On the one hand, it’s a funny moment which builds a connection between the two films, and Michael Keaton’s delivery is properly humorous. On the other hand, it’s the writers stopping the story to take a moment to acknowledge a fan complaint. Is this something that, in context, Bruce Wayne would say?

I often find myself thinking about how writers can be so easily led away from a ruthless focus on internal logic and into a land of pointless distractions.
I generally agree, especially about Breaking Bad—haven’t seen Better Call Saul yet though.

One big example of winking at the audience with a meta-reference and pulling you right out of the movie is in First Contact: “And you people, you’re all astronauts… on some kind of Star Trek.” If they had cut that line, the scene would’ve worked very well without it. I still watch FC often, because it’s the best of the TNG films, but that line always tweaks me.

TNG fan service—you forgot about McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint. ”Well, she’s got the right name. You treat her like a lady, and she’ll always bring you home.” And the first regular broadcast episode, The Naked Now, was wholesale fan service based on the early TOS episode with the same plot.

I think you’re spot on about internal logic and organic storytelling. Whenever I go back to the Godfather films, they strike me as marvels of great cinema writing, and they got the screenwriting Oscars to prove it (I’m ignoring the third film—the less said about that one, the better). I’ve never seen Trek rise to that level, but I’ve seen it rise above itself numerous times. Measure of a Man and Inner Light spring to mind from TNG, and of course City, Errand, and maybe one or two others from TOS.

The broadest complaint about TOS that I can muster is that it so often was mired in 60’s-style TV melodrama, like Journey to Babel (albeit very good melodrama) or Conscience of the King (some of the most painfully contrived dialog of the whole series).

But returning to P3, I maintain that it’s been the best written of the three seasons (admittedly a low bar), and I find it very entertaining. Amanda Plummer chews the scenery overmuch, but what genre villain doesn’t? On the whole, I’ve found this season gripping and I want to see more.
 
I generally agree, especially about Breaking Bad—haven’t seen Better Call Saul yet though.

One big example of winking at the audience with a meta-reference and pulling you right out of the movie is in First Contact: “And you people, you’re all astronauts… on some kind of Star Trek.” If they had cut that line, the scene would’ve worked very well without it. I still watch FC often, because it’s the best of the TNG films, but that line always tweaks me.

TNG fan service—you forgot about McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint. ”Well, she’s got the right name. You treat her like a lady, and she’ll always bring you home.” And the first regular broadcast episode, The Naked Now, was wholesale fan service based on the early TOS episode with the same plot.

I think you’re spot on about internal logic and organic storytelling. Whenever I go back to the Godfather films, they strike me as marvels of great cinema writing, and they got the screenwriting Oscars to prove it (I’m ignoring the third film—the less said about that one, the better). I’ve never seen Trek rise to that level, but I’ve seen it rise above itself numerous times. Measure of a Man and Inner Light spring to mind from TNG, and of course City, Errand, and maybe one or two others from TOS.

The broadest complaint about TOS that I can muster is that it so often was mired in 60’s-style TV melodrama, like Journey to Babel (albeit very good melodrama) or Conscience of the King (some of the most painfully contrived dialog of the whole series).

But returning to P3, I maintain that it’s been the best written of the three seasons (admittedly a low bar), and I find it very entertaining. Amanda Plummer chews the scenery overmuch, but what genre villain doesn’t? On the whole, I’ve found this season gripping and I want to see more.

I’m coming more and more to the conclusion that BETTER CALL SAUL is actually the, well, better of the two shows. Deeper, more methodical, less dependent on crime-genre plots and action, and even more focused on characters and relationships. With a more subtle bag of writing tricks at its disposal, since Vince Gilligan and his crew had been honing their craft for years on the parent show. BB and BCS are a brilliant duology, and an achievement unequalled in the history of television.

There are people out there who have only watched and loved one show or the other (and it’s not strictly necessary to watch both to understand and enjoy both), but each show is one half of a greater whole. I like to think of it as one giant show that switched gears and focus halfway through, jumped back in the timeline, then jumped forward again to provide a brilliant coda and satisfying ending to both halves. Some of the best storytelling I’ve ever seen, and perhaps second only to STAR TREK in regards to my boundless love and admiration.


…and then there’s KurtzmanTREK, largely still drooling at the starting line.



Yeah, I think that meta jokes and references aimed at the audience, like that joke in FIRST CONTACT, should be used very, very sparingly, AND should be earned, AND should make logical sense, in-universe.

And I didn’t forget those early TNG examples. McCoy was never even named in the pilot, remember. And, in-universe, it’s not at all outside the realm of possibility that McCoy requested to tour the new ship bearing the Enterprise name. I think they found just the right tone and balance for that cameo without being gratuitous and distracting. A passing of the torch via a surprise cameo without sailing over the top. Although it’s placement in the episode is a bit odd (a choice no doubt intended to cap off “Part 1” of the pilot with the cameo when the episode was cut in half for syndication).

And, of course, GENERATIONS later had Kirk, Scott, and Chekov aboard the Enterprise-B as a sort of in-universe publicity stunt, so there’s an in-universe precedent.

As for “The Naked Now”, I see it less as fanservice than as a really lazy recycling of an old TOS plot in order to quickly establish the new show’s characters.
 
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