I never implied one was better then the other. I also suggested that if you were not around and culturally aware of TREK post TOS and pre TMP, you have a very different, and I would say less informed, view of how this franchise has become. Post TOS we had nothing except reruns. Then STAR WARS happened. When ST_TMP came out, despite it's flaws, it was a huge success. TWOK made Trek immortal. From 1979-1986 all we had was film Trek and without it's success, there never would have been anymore on TV. We are seeing a reboot of that era right now. Well crafted and exciting film Trek is reinvigorating the franchise. Perhaps TV Trek will follow once again as it has in the past. But your argument/complaint about what film Trek lacks is precisely why film Trek is so crucial to maintaining this franchise.
Star Trek Into Darkness (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Dave Porter
- Start date
I never implied one was better then the other. I also suggested that if you were not around and culturally aware of TREK post TOS and pre TMP, you have a very different, and I would say less informed, view of how this franchise has become. Post TOS we had nothing except reruns. Then STAR WARS happened. When ST_TMP came out, despite it's flaws, it was a huge success. TWOK made Trek immortal. From 1979-1986 all we had was film Trek and without it's success, there never would have been anymore on TV. We are seeing a reboot of that era right now. Well crafted and exciting film Trek is reinvigorating the franchise. Perhaps TV Trek will follow once again as it has in the past. But your argument/complaint about what film Trek lacks is precisely why film Trek is so crucial to maintaining this franchise.
I won't deny that these movies are... necessary, but I will not agree that this is all Star Trek should ever be.
NOBODY EVER SAID THAT. Are you always this pedantic? You continue to argue against a point no one else is making. And you still haven't answer my query. Are you too young to recall the decade and a half I am referring to? Because based on your posts I think you are very young....relatively.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
Bravo and hear hear! Well said. I'm an old fart, erm, school Trekkie too and I agree with this 100%.
nickytea
Master Member
I'd go so far as to say, in the 110 pages of this thread, and in the hundreds of pages in dozens of other threads here, nobody has ever even implied that point. It's just a straw man.
LMFAOSchwarz
Sr Member
I'm one of "those" people who doesn't plan to see the new Star Trek movie, but I'm glad to hear these early reviews, and that you guys are enjoying it! 
fifthchamber
Sr Member
Reading all this makes me cry.....
Mostly because I live in Japan, and have to wait until September to get to go and see it...
I'm glad that it's looking as good as I thought it would...I liked the first reboot, and I love the original series and movies too (up to a point), so the new ones have been great for me....And the trailers for "Into Darkness" look brilliant..
But....September.....September....
If anyone reading this knows anyone with ANY connection to the Japanese Film Board, please find the boss of the Board and slap him senseless for me? September is a joke....I waited for Dredd, and it came a half year late to only a couple of "select" cinemas here in Tokyo....And I have to wait now for both Man of Steel and Into Darkness.....And it's killing me.....
Japanese Film Board, sort it out!
Mostly because I live in Japan, and have to wait until September to get to go and see it...
I'm glad that it's looking as good as I thought it would...I liked the first reboot, and I love the original series and movies too (up to a point), so the new ones have been great for me....And the trailers for "Into Darkness" look brilliant..
But....September.....September....
If anyone reading this knows anyone with ANY connection to the Japanese Film Board, please find the boss of the Board and slap him senseless for me? September is a joke....I waited for Dredd, and it came a half year late to only a couple of "select" cinemas here in Tokyo....And I have to wait now for both Man of Steel and Into Darkness.....And it's killing me.....
Japanese Film Board, sort it out!
Good. At least now you know where I stand on the matter.
And you know what was cool about TWOK? It was hardly an action movie and it didn't have a bad guy who wanted to attack Earth.
I could never fathom the reasoning behind the delay for movie releases in Japan. It's always months late than the rest of the world. Years ago even India used to have delay in movie release with a gap of few weeks, but Japan always had the release months later. Perhaps besides the English audio, they also release movies there with dubbed Japanese audio or perhaps Japaneses subtitles, hence the delay? Some of the famous franchise films get released in India in at least four other regional languages in some of the states, besides English.
TheDoctor
Sr Member
Oh MAN! I thought I had it bad in the states having to wait another week before it comes out! Maybe we need to start a collection so you can fly here to the US or Canada to catch a viewing. =)
fifthchamber
Sr Member
Vivek...You're entirely right about the need to dub it and sub it for audiences here....But even given that, a half year is pathetic...(Especially given the final job they do..I can read Japanese and often read the subs just to check..And they're very often a few miles off the "correct" meaning, and convey only the very simplest idea behind the words translated..It's weak stuff..)..The dubbing I could see taking longer, but it's not like they're using actors who are superbly talented and need time to "prepare" or "understand" the work...I would say the level is about the same as the dubbing on the 70's Kung Fu films into English....Funky...(But yeah, they do use "talento" here...So I could see them having to wait for that perhaps?)
I have long thought that the real reason Hollywood releases late here so often is because they can use Japan as a "mop up" after a movies opening has either succeeded in the US/abroad or failed...If it's failed, they get one last chance to push it up here and catch some later funding, and if it's a success they get roll on cash a year after the movies initial release...So it covers several markers at once..But that's just an idea I have...They may just as easily be doing it JUST to vex me...Heh...
Interestingly, we got The Amazing Spiderman two days BEFORE the release in the USA......Because they KNEW the Japanese audience loved the character enough to pump a LOAD of cash into it and then ride that success into the US opening...And because they charge us 2000-3000 yen per ticket here (about 20-30 dollars) they get a LOT more cash in a shorter opening time here in Japan....
It's enough to make me sick....Dredd 3D was limited release...About 3 cinemas in Tokyo..For a week or two only....And released with no advertising, no pump up, and no notice at all...It makes VERY little sense to me...
Meh.....Basically, the rest of the world nearly ALWAYS has the good movies a couple of months before I can see it here...And it really DOES hurt me at times....Man of Steel and Star Trek will be two this year..Wolverine is another...Iron Man 3 was on time here (again, character sells)...So...Yeah..I spend most of my Facebook time online complaining about late Japanese releases...LOL
Fun fun...Hehe...
I have long thought that the real reason Hollywood releases late here so often is because they can use Japan as a "mop up" after a movies opening has either succeeded in the US/abroad or failed...If it's failed, they get one last chance to push it up here and catch some later funding, and if it's a success they get roll on cash a year after the movies initial release...So it covers several markers at once..But that's just an idea I have...They may just as easily be doing it JUST to vex me...Heh...
Interestingly, we got The Amazing Spiderman two days BEFORE the release in the USA......Because they KNEW the Japanese audience loved the character enough to pump a LOAD of cash into it and then ride that success into the US opening...And because they charge us 2000-3000 yen per ticket here (about 20-30 dollars) they get a LOT more cash in a shorter opening time here in Japan....
It's enough to make me sick....Dredd 3D was limited release...About 3 cinemas in Tokyo..For a week or two only....And released with no advertising, no pump up, and no notice at all...It makes VERY little sense to me...
Meh.....Basically, the rest of the world nearly ALWAYS has the good movies a couple of months before I can see it here...And it really DOES hurt me at times....Man of Steel and Star Trek will be two this year..Wolverine is another...Iron Man 3 was on time here (again, character sells)...So...Yeah..I spend most of my Facebook time online complaining about late Japanese releases...LOL
Fun fun...Hehe...
Wrong. Sitting in the theater in 1982 TWOK was an action/adventure movie. Our film sensibilities were very different back then, it was only a year before that Raiders had hit the reset button as to what constituted an action/adventure film.
fifthchamber
Sr Member
Hahahaha....I don't think even my pride would let me "refuse" that one..Heh... Just don't tell me what happens for four months! That's enough usually..(Hard as hell to achieve though...My mates love to chat..LOL)
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
Absolutely right!!! STTMP was perhaps the slowest film of the entire series and it took the TWOK to reboot it back into the more mainstream league of entertainment to ensure it remained a viable investment and franchise. If they had got it wrong again back then instead of so right I doubt very much if we would be rejoicing in STID today. Action wise we are not even on the same planet (or universe) anymore.
And I’ve got to say its the respect for the old stories and characters that has been translated so well into the new series. They remain so recognizable yet within the context of the universe in which they now appear things have been most definitely altered, the outcomes so different.
I think the best thing to remember about STID is just how much of the timeline has been changed by Neros intervention. It accelerated so many changes to so many things . Lets face it , wiping out Vulcan , entire fleets of both Klingon and Star fleet ships , sweeping aside Earth defenses with barely a scratch, that’s going to significantly change many situations and strategies.
All the key characters are so much younger here ,thrust into positions of responsibility by an early conflict that their original series counterparts never had to face before they had completed all their Star fleet training , at least one five year mission and many decades of adventures afterward.
So Kirk is filled with the impetuous, head strong , wild over-confidence of youth and truly not ready for the captains chair. He’s just a gambler, playing to his luck. Pyke explains this all quite well to him.
Spock doesn’t have the decades of wisdom and experience in human relationships to draw on. He still remains somewhat traumatized from watching Vulcan ,his civilization and his mother reduced to nothing, his “human” side is still enraged and less disciplined and his fight to control himself against what really are his own wishes, such as his relationship with Uhura, absolutely show it.
What STID manages to do ,besides all the brilliant action pieces, is to really move them all on. And it does so in a way that still manages significant nods to the original fan base yet also embraces the new generations of admirers. You’ve got to applaud them all for that and how cleverly the story plays with ideas, both old and new. And so, by the end of STID the timelines are made ,very effectively to start to catch up with their alternate selves, whilst heading ,quite literally ,in a new direction,
It’s the day after for me and I’m actually looking forward to seeing this again more than I did yesterday. That’s pretty rare for any film for me, and for a Star Trek film an absolute first! Go see it, park all your preconceptions in the foyer before you go in and enjoy the film.
It was the same case here in India. Big thanks to Reliance for ruining the marketing and release of Dredd everywhere.
That makes sense and seems like a more valid reason for the delay. If there is more money to be made, the studios will find a way to get it, no matter how bad it affects the timely experience for others. Hopefully when Star Trek Into Darkness is released there you have enough options to catch the movie in its original English version instead of the ones with sub-par dubbing.
The action scenes are few and far between and neither of them resolve the intended consequences that the characters wished to bestow on each other. The first space battle ends in a stale mate, while the second plays out more like dueling submarines rather than a fast paced sequence where we see constant barrage of weapons fire. And even with that, the deciding factor in the final battle is not which ship is the toughest or has the better weapons, but how far the characters are willing to go to achieve their goal. Khan is willing to kill himself and his crew in order to kill Kirk, and Spock is willing to sacrifice himself in order to save the ship. No sequence in TWOK is gratuitous or wasted in order to tell it's story, and the few action sequences serve the story rather than vice versa.
fifthchamber
Sr Member
Oh...Don't worry, if they ONLY released it with dubbing, I'd have rioted and burned the cinemas down 10 years back when I arrived..Hehe....
It's not that bad...The actual audience here is much the same as anywhere..Only the kids who can't be "bothered to read" go and see the dubbed versions...They're awful, and you miss a LOT of the action's meaning..So the majority here seem to prefer the subbed versions...
Just takes a long time to arrive....(I assume they don't have Facebook full of friends all hollering about what actually happens to let the storyline get leaked early...LOL..Damn you Facebook!)
Regards..
TMP is certainly slow and doesn't hold a candle to how great TWOK is. And while I like TMP very much, I will always acknowledge that the film is heavily flawed and doesn't reflect what makes Star Trek a great and endearing franchise. It really is a film that has visual effects shots just for the sake of having visual effect shots.
But the fundamental element that makes TWOK better than TMP is not because the film has more action. TMP had some very good ideas, but was completely incapable of executing them due to it's incompetent producers and not having a clear resolution or climax while filming. I know audiences can handle slow movies, but when the movie itself has so many other fundamental problems, it can make the slow pace unbearable. With TWOK, no screen time was wasted. Even though a big chunk of this movie is just people talking to each other, it's interesting. Even The Director's Edition doesn't add any new effects or trims scenes to quicken the pace. It just adds more dialogue between the characters.
Action isn't the only thing that makes the film better.
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