Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

[tgreco]

...or it could just as easily demonstrate that nobody here thinks that your thought experiment is in any way a valid exercise, and we have no need to indulge your ego.?

Nothing to do with my ego.

Your synopsis demonstrates exactly what a jumbled mess that script is.

 

[Kerr Avon]

I think the only thing I liked about STID was that the USS Vengeance was built in space.

:lol

So they got ONE thing right.

 

[jlee562]

Nothing to do with my ego.

Your synopsis demonstrates exactly what a jumbled mess that script is.

lol:lol

You need to take some cues on logic from Mr. Spock.

I think the fact that no one here has simply summed the film up in 10 sentences demonstrates what a complete mess the script is.

I summed it up in 10 sentences. Ergo, by YOUR definition, it is not a mess.

I love it when other people's arguments are self-defeating.

 

[tgreco]

1. And yet for so many others it did make sense, as opposed to wondering how that can possibly be the case, perhaps you should consider why you find it such a challenge.

2. On that we agree, common ground! And a healthy one.

3. Opps, now you contradict #2. If someone's opinion is menaingless to you, it is niether good nor bad, it simply is. If you hold another opinion in disregard, your words, that's implies you look at their opinion with a bias towards yours being superior. That would make you a bit of a ******. And for the record, I enjoy the prequels, so disregard that.

And although you think your "describe the plot in 10 sentences" theory is clever, no one else in this conversation seems to. Perhaps we should hold that in disregard.

1. There was a string of things that happened, and as long as you don't look more than one step back, or one step forward it makes sense.

2. glad we're eye to eye on that. I'm just trying to figure out when voicing a different opinion got translated into trying to pick a fight... I love movies. I love discussing movies. Just because you and I disagree on this doesn't mean I don't like or dislike you or anyone else on this forum

3. I didn't contradict #2. I said your opinion of this film didn't matter to me. I didn't say that all opinions don't matter to me. It's a clarification, not a contradiction.

Like I said before, I can forgive bad SPFX if the script is good. And I know people that can't get past bad SPFX, but will forgive a poorly written script.

Of course, in a perfect world, all big budget sci-fi films would have wonderful scripts. But we live in reality, and where some film makers are concerned with the visuals, or set pieces, or properties, and others really concern themselves story and characters. It's a scale. There is no right or wrong. I just happen to have a preference. And I know where on that scale my preferences lie. That doesn't mean I want to deny anyone else, if they enjoy it.

There is however a shadow on this thread that people that didn't like the movie already made their mind up. That's not my case. I avoided spoilers, didn't follow any of the pre-release hype. I went and saw it because I enjoyed the 2009 reboot, and I wanted to see where they went with it. I didn't walk in wanting to not like it. But in the end I didn't. And my participation in this thread, was to explain why I didn't like it.

~excelsior

 

[RougeAvenger81]

tgreco, if you didn't like the movie, ok. your point has been made. But to try to prove other peoples views incorrect when it's a matter of opinion and taste is kind of not needed. I see some of your points as to how certain things seem rushed or jumbled up, but to say the whole film is a mess is inaccurate. 10 sentences or 10 pages proves nothing except someone's ability to articulate their point of view of the film better. You opinion is not the only one. It's not right, nor is it wrong, it's an opinion or interpretation. Same as everyone else.

 

[tgreco]

I summed it up in 10 sentences. Ergo, by YOUR definition, it is not a mess.

I love it when other people's arguments are self-defeating.

I already stated the point of asking for a 10 sentence synopsis above.

And your synopsis, while 10 sentences, is every bit as much of an incoherent mess as the script of STID.

 

[jlee562]

I already stated the point of asking for a 10 sentence synopsis above.

And your synopsis, while 10 sentences, is every bit as much of an incoherent mess as the script of STID.

And multiple people in this thread have told you how ridiculous the premise of the 10 sentence synopsis is.

If my synopsis is "incoherent," than you have a problem with comprehending written English.

Either that, or you need to look up what "incoherent" means in the dictionary.

You don't have to like the story, you don't have to think it's a good story, but the film is not a series of unconnected events.

 

[Bryancd]

I think the only thing I liked about STID was that the USS Vengeance was built in space.

And you will be first inline to see the third film.

- - - Updated - - -

I already stated the point of asking for a 10 sentence synopsis above.

And your synopsis, while 10 sentences, is every bit as much of an incoherent mess as the script of STID.

Me thinks thou protests too much for someone who is magnanimous enough to allow other people to have their opinions and or plot descriptions, at least in your mind, without incurring your insult. And then you insult their efforts. Your posts reek of condescension. I don't put up with that...at all.

 

[jlee562]

Me thinks thou protests too much for someone who is magnanimous enough to allow other people to have their opinions and or plot descriptions, at least in your mind, without incurring your insult. And then you insult their efforts. Your posts reek of condescension. I don't put up with that...at all.

Let me put it this way, I've done film school (graduated with honors to boot), though I don't work in "the business," I do know folks that do, and was taught by folks who do or have at one point.

Not one of these individuals has ever based their opinion on a film on whether or not somebody could summarize the plot in 10 sentences or less.

 

[Bryancd]

Let me put it this way, I've done film school (graduated with honors to boot), though I don't work in "the business," I do know folks that do, and was taught by folks who do or have at one point.

Not one of these individuals has ever based their opinion on a film on whether or not somebody could summarize the plot in 10 sentences or less.

That's crazy talk. Good DAY, sir!

 

[jlee562]

That's crazy talk. Good DAY, sir!

lol

 

[Bryancd]

I already stated the point of asking for a 10 sentence synopsis above.

And your synopsis, while 10 sentences, is every bit as much of an incoherent mess as the script of STID.

I have to add....I love your avatar pic of Gowron in the shades, he does look stoned.

Come on, how about when Kirk tells Pike, "Never trust a Vulcan" or Kirk tells Bones. "And stop talking in metaphors, that's an order." So many moments =made me smile and laugh and on occasion get verklempt. Isn't Star Trek all about the characters?

 

[DARTH SABER]

synopsis-
a crew of genetically engineered super human criminals from the 20th centtury are discovered in space by a secret division of Starfleet. With the crew held captive, their leader,Khan, is forced to conspire with a starfleet admiral's radical plans to militarize Starfleet. things go awry when Khan manages to break free from obligations and causes havoc and destruction in an attempt free his crew and carry out his revenge.
its up to the crew of the enterprise to step in and stop Khan.


pfft...10 sentences.

4 sentences baby!!!

 

[Jeyl]

Isn't Star Trek all about the characters?

Such a vague generalization that doesn't give Star Trek any distinguishing features. Any genre of stories, whether they're books, comics, films or a television series can be just about the characters. It's like saying "Any film can be in color", but that's not all it takes to be good. Yes, characters are important, but so is the story. If you're going to tell me that your story is actually about something, you've got to meet your audience half way. When it comes to how the story relates to the characters in STID, the story always took a backseat in order for things to happen even if it didn't happen that way earlier on. One moment a ship's sensors can automatically detect when a torpedo is armed and when it's about to explode, but later on it won't. You're ignoring your own story just so something can happen later on that this moment would have prevented.

A good writer can write a story that gives the bad guy a much deeper motivation to his character outside of the plot having him just be the bad guy. Khan's motivation for going into space was so he and his people could find a new world that they could build an empire out of free of humans who don't share their view on world order. In STID, Khan's motivation for going into space was because he hoped that things would one day be different.... What? Not even the writers cared enough to elaborate on what this "different" thing was. The original Khan's quest for revenge in TWOK comes from the fact that he spent 15 years on a planet that turned to hell which killed 20 of his followers and his wife. This adds much to his character because for the second time in his life, those that Khan deemed inferior have put him in a situation where everything he had hoped to gain is now lost. Only instead of a chance to build an empire, all he wanted was revenge. This new Khan's quest for revenge comes simply from "assuming" that Marcus had killed all his followers. That's it.

 

[DARTH SABER]

i have an idea for a show..loosely based on Gilligans Island.

what if, Kirk, Bones , Savik, Marcus never got rescued from that genesis asteroid and they had to live in the genesis cave.
imagine the hijinx!!

every werk a smuggler or passerby woukd drop by as a guest star, with promises of getting them off the asteroid, only to be foiled every time.
they might encouter primative natives in the cave (a product of the genesis device maybe?), or weird creatures, etc.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Oh, I can follow it.

so it did make sense?

They just failed at it making any sense.

so it didnt make sense?...wait, what?? lol

its funny watching people scramble for an excuse to hate a film even when they contradict themselves.

 

[Bryancd]

Such a vague generalization that doesn't give Star Trek any distinguishing features. Any genre of stories, whether they're books, comics, films or a television series can be just about the characters. It's like saying "Any film can be in color", but that's not all it takes to be good. Yes, characters are important, but so is the story. If you're going to tell me that your story is actually about something, you've got to meet your audience half way. When it comes to how the story relates to the characters in STID, the story always took a backseat in order for things to happen even if it didn't happen that way earlier on. One moment a ship's sensors can automatically detect when a torpedo is armed and when it's about to explode, but later on it won't. You're ignoring your own story just so something can happen later on that this moment would have prevented.

A good writer can write a story that gives the bad guy a much deeper motivation to his character outside of the plot having him just be the bad guy. Khan's motivation for going into space was so he and his people could find a new world that they could build an empire out of free of humans who don't share their view on world order. In STID, Khan's motivation for going into space was because he hoped that things would one day be different.... What? Not even the writers cared enough to elaborate on what this "different" thing was. The original Khan's quest for revenge in TWOK comes from the fact that he spent 15 years on a planet that turned to hell which killed 20 of his followers and his wife. This adds much to his character because for the second time in his life, those that Khan deemed inferior have put him in a situation where everything he had hoped to gain is now lost. Only instead of a chance to build an empire, all he wanted was revenge. This new Khan's quest for revenge comes simply from "assuming" that Marcus had killed all his followers. That's it.

Even for you that was a long straw man argument.

 

[Jeyl]

Even for you that was a long straw man argument.

I just figured that JJ's Star Trek already had it's Khan villain with Nero. No need to go with the a weaker take of the real thing for your very next installment.

 

[Bryancd]

I just figured that JJ's Star Trek already had it's Khan villain with Nero. No need to go with the a weaker take of the real thing for your very next installment.

That's not the Straw Man, trying to take me suggesting Star Trek at it's core is all about the characters and their personal relationships and arguing about story is. You need to look up what a Straw Man argument is.

 

[Jeyl]

You need to look up what a Straw Man argument is.

And you need to actually try and be a little more understanding to what others are trying to say rather than simply look for reasons that only serves to degrade others.

Again, you asked everyone "Isn't Star Trek all about the characters?", and I responded that it should be more than that. I gave an example on how TWOK's story and characters complimented each other because that's something that STID severely lacks. The story for "TWOK" gave Khan a reason for being in the film where STID doesn't give any reason why John Harrison needed to be Khan.