Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

[Solo4114]

I understand the attitude, though. When you invest in a franchise emotionally, it feels like betrayal when the vision of the franchise changes radically in a way that doesn't jive with what got you invested in the first place. It's not rational, but that doesn't mean fans feel it any less.

The good news is that the original versions of things are still commercially available for fans. Compare that to, for example, Star Wars where Lucas basically refused to restore the original versions of his films and only offered the SEs commercially (I discount the 2006 laserdisc rips) and which still has yet to be rectified. One of the great things about the Trek blu-ray sets is the ability to watch the originally aired version (restored, of course), or the digitally enhanced one with new f/x. It's up to the viewer, and you can switch on the fly.

So, from that perspective, I find it easier (when Old Spock isn't on the screen, anyway) to say that JJTrek is its own thing, and to appreciate it on its own merit, rather than trying to make it "make sense" with the old universe. In effect, even though they say it's an "alternate timeline," I say it's a reboot in my head, and that solves all the problems.

 

[Rotwang]

I just saw it, what a terrible mess of a film, had to force myself to watch it. It reeks of that kind of obnoxious smugness you get from people who think they are so much smarter than everybody else, but everything hinges on a terribly transparent idea that requires you to have seen the series and the previous film to "appreciate" and then use a very bad fan-fiction as filler material to get the required playing time.

Something like 80% of the entire creative effort of this film seems to have gone into trying to subvert the original plot of Wrath and the series in such a way they got so excited by the idea of "Khan ! It's actually Khan !" with zero reference frame. They could have made up a completely different character of which nobody in the audience would be aware of and the result would be the same. "It's Joe, It's actually Joe !!!"

It would have been so much easier to just get a blank slate, start with Kirk, Spock, Bones and the gang and just go from there, do your own thing, add a wink and a nod there and be done with it.

And even the rest of the film is so heavy-handed and telephoned in, Cumberbatch does the best he can, but I can't imagine he ever enjoyed it for a moment ...

Darkness feels like the Mirror Universe version of Galaxy Quest.

It makes me look back at other blundering films like Man of Steel and think "at least they tried" ...

 

[greatwazoo42]

Darkness feels like the Mirror Universe version of Galaxy Quest.

Holy snot did you just nail it with that one sentence right there. Admittedly I enjoy the films but this really sums up my feel for it too.

 

[seelsa73]

Hey, Galaxy Quest is quality entertainment!

 

[kialna]

And even the rest of the film is so heavy-handed and telephoned in, Cumberbatch does the best he can, but I can't imagine he ever enjoyed it for a moment ...

Sorry, he loved it. Not so much being khan, but he loved beefing up, doing hand to hand combat, stunts and costumes. But that's the role, not the characters name. But yeah. Sorry to burst that bubble.

 

[Father]

Man, you guys are brutal. I enjoyed this movie enough to watch it a couple times. I really need to stop reading these deconstruction threads that break down movies to every flaw and mistake.

 

[ghostryder]

Stunning Star Trek Into Darkness concept art shows starships at war

 

[Father]

OK what's the deal with this... the opening in the "saucer section"? Is that to make a clear shot for the wave motion cannon or something?



And was this supposed to be a Bird of Prey? Because if so I'm definitely disappointed. The BoP was one of the cooler ships in the origina Trek films. This was more like a Reaver ship from Firefly/Serenity.

 

[The Terminator]

The deal was to make a ship that doesn't look like it belongs in the Star Trek universe. Just like making Klingons that look like they were taken out of Lord of the Rings

 

[greatwazoo42]

I found myself thinking the design of the Vengeance was a compilation of all the pissing and moaning people did about JJ's version of the Enterprise on steroids.

 

[Solo4114]

OK what's the deal with this... the opening in the "saucer section"? Is that to make a clear shot for the wave motion cannon or something?

View attachment 272194

I think it was just to make it look "tacticool."

And was this supposed to be a Bird of Prey? Because if so I'm definitely disappointed. The BoP was one of the cooler ships in the origina Trek films. This was more like a Reaver ship from Firefly/Serenity.

View attachment 272196

It's a frackin' cylon!!

 

[toolman0701]

I enjoyed it, but I can certainly understand how some of you didn't. There were parts of it that I winced at also. Also, the thing that sticks out at me most fiercely is that the relationship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy in TOS was developed over time, and they seem to want to make that instantaneous here. The pieces are good, the finished product is ....imperfect. I hope the next director polishes them and makes them fit together a little better.

 

[dascoyne]

The film is not flawed from a technical perspective.
If the man's name wasn't Khan and if he didn't try so hard to reference WOK it would have been a better film.
Clearly it was a miscalculated attempt to please ST fans.

I'm hoping JJ can reign in his ambitions with ST and just make a film where Kirk can command the Enterprise with a loyal crew and complete a mission with some semblance of professionalism and without destroying another Constitution class starship.

I have a little more faith that JJ has a better grasp of SW.

 

[Jeyl]

With the very tightly budgeted "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan", Nicholas Meyer was able to deliver something new to both movie audiences and Star Trek fans. A climactic space battle set in a beautiful but dangerous space nebula between two very large starships. The battle was suspenseful and a lot of fun to watch. But most importantly, it was set in freaking space. JJ Abrams, with an almost unlimited budget and Khan being the villain once again decided that this legendary character's final battle should be a fist fight on Earth!

You're the Best!
Around!
Nothing's gonna ever keep you down!
You're the Best!
Around!
Nothing's gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ow-own

 

[seelsa73]

JJ Abrams, with an almost unlimited budget and Khan being the villain once again decided that this legendary character's final battle should be a fist fight on Earth!

Oh dear lord, not this tired argument again. 75% of the movie was set in space or on a different planet than Earth, why does it matter that the final battle took place on home turf? It makes perfect sense given Khan's motivations.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

That part of the movie actually made sense. 71 fellow mates thought to be dead...crash on and take out those who killed them.....I.E. Starfleet.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

Here is the truth of it. JJ was never a fan of Star Trek and admits it to this day. When he made the first Star Trek film he stated he filmed it in such a way that he felt would be better suited for Star Wars, but knew/thought he would never get to make a Star Wars film, so he got the next best thing so to speak. In doing so I don't think he realized that Star Trek fans are just a "religious" so to speak about the past history of the franchise. He added what little winks he thought was enough for the fans in the first one. Some weren't happy. In this one he decided to go over kill, giving them something fans already knew and loved. The problem in doing that is (even he and the producers admitted) it was a last minute add in decision to use Khan as the character. I loved the movie for what it is. An action film set in a Star Trek theme. But even I can admit, JJ simply does not know Star Trek or what those fans want. He knows Star Wars (or at least I really hope he does, because that's my preference) and has been a fanboy his whole life. So hopefully he can give us SW fans what we loved and miss about the series and another director can step into Star Trek and build on what JJ has started and give us those epic Space battles, and deep space journeys ,etc that we all expected.

Oh, one more thing.....where in this movie did they go "Into Darkness"? Made it seem like it was gonna have some deep dark theme or deep space feel. Aside from Kirk dying and coming back in a 10 minute span I didn't see it.

 

[Jeyl]

Oh dear lord, not this tired argument again. 75% of the movie was set in space or on a different planet than Earth, why does it matter that the final battle took place on home turf? It makes perfect sense given Khan's motivations.

The only reason it makes perfect sense for Khan's motivations is because, dig this, the writers actually wrote it that way. They wanted Earth to be their Star Trek's "Stomping ground" just like New York is Spiderman's stomping ground so you wouldn't feel uncomfortable being in space even though this is a franchise that actually takes place in space. And I think your 75% number is very generous since both times we see the Enterprise actually doing anything on a different planet, the very next thing they do is head back to Earth to deal with more serious issues.

The other problem in making Earth a prime motivation for Khan is because it's been done already. He wants revenge on Starfleet and intends to wipe out all human life. Sound familiar? It should because that was the motivation of the last two villains from the last two movies. At this point Earth is just boring. It's overrated as a Star Trek location (Modern Earth was never visited in TOS) and the location in and of itself defeats the purpose of this being a franchise that's set in space. The promise of actually going out into space for a long duration is as hollow as the promise from the last movie. They'll probably use space as another pre-title sequence and than we'll be back on Earth yet again for another reason that will lead to it's eventual peril.

 

[Solo4114]

Here is the truth of it. JJ was never a fan of Star Trek and admits it to this day. When he made the first Star Trek film he stated he filmed it in such a way that he felt would be better suited for Star Wars, but knew/thought he would never get to make a Star Wars film, so he got the next best thing so to speak. In doing so I don't think he realized that Star Trek fans are just a "religious" so to speak about the past history of the franchise. He added what little winks he thought was enough for the fans in the first one. Some weren't happy. In this one he decided to go over kill, giving them something fans already knew and loved. The problem in doing that is (even he and the producers admitted) it was a last minute add in decision to use Khan as the character. I loved the movie for what it is. An action film set in a Star Trek theme. But even I can admit, JJ simply does not know Star Trek or what those fans want. He knows Star Wars (or at least I really hope he does, because that's my preference) and has been a fanboy his whole life. So hopefully he can give us SW fans what we loved and miss about the series and another director can step into Star Trek and build on what JJ has started and give us those epic Space battles, and deep space journeys ,etc that we all expected.

Oh, one more thing.....where in this movie did they go "Into Darkness"? Made it seem like it was gonna have some deep dark theme or deep space feel. Aside from Kirk dying and coming back in a 10 minute span I didn't see it.

That's about where I come out. It was an attempt at fan service that fell flat because JJ didn't really understand the fans to whom he was trying to provide fan service. The story would've worked better had it just been John Harrison. The Khan aspect was pointless -- aside from allowing for "KHAAAAN!" and an inversion of the reactor core scene, and an opportunity for Obi-Spock to show up again and drop some knowledge.

If they'd simply left it as "John Harrison, the result of a failed Starfleet program to create super-soldiers capable of fighting an eventual war with the Klingons, whose blood has healing powers," you'd have, essentially, the exact same movie, but without the obnoxious bits like why he isn't Indian and such. So, that's how I make my brain work when I consider the films: it's "Khan" in name only. The Khan stuff is mere window dressing.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

That's about where I come out. It was an attempt at fan service that fell flat because JJ didn't really understand the fans to whom he was trying to provide fan service. The story would've worked better had it just been John Harrison. The Khan aspect was pointless -- aside from allowing for "KHAAAAN!" and an inversion of the reactor core scene, and an opportunity for Obi-Spock to show up again and drop some knowledge.

If they'd simply left it as "John Harrison, the result of a failed Starfleet program to create super-soldiers capable of fighting an eventual war with the Klingons, whose blood has healing powers," you'd have, essentially, the exact same movie, but without the obnoxious bits like why he isn't Indian and such. So, that's how I make my brain work when I consider the films: it's "Khan" in name only. The Khan stuff is mere window dressing.

I'll go as far as saying, let JJ keep Khan to try and play to the fans. Just not the same way. John Harrison, stays John, a revived superhuman from the past. Trying to awaken the rest of his crew and "leader". Don't even say Khan in the film. Just hints. story plays out the same with leaving out the reactor scene and death of Kirk. Too soon, too much of a duplicate. End the movie with a killer space battle involving the enterprise, that ridiculously large ship and a bad a## Klingon war bird since they involved them earlier in the film and also opens up things with the Klingons for later films. End it the same, Harrison goes back into cryosleep, you pan the camera to see a CGI version of Khan in another cryotube. The ship carrying them is sent to warp into deep space, and you get the faintest glimps of the name, USS Botany Bay on the side. The end, plot holes filled, fan base still intact and the previous lore is still open in the new alti-vers.