Sidkit and me, racprops

[racprops]

That being said, I didn't know Sidkits were recasts of
---Quote (Originally by knightone)---
So how does buying a Sidkit differ from buying from Arsenal or New Moon? If the issue is of recasting, then a Sidkit should be a no-go. If the issue is of quality, then I guess recasting is not an issue then. If it is an issue of cost then, again, I guess recasting is still not an issue.

I just find it amusing that, on a board that is so quick to jump on recasting, no one says a word and even justifies the Sidkit just because it is a good recasting and a recasted kit of an item that isn't available in kit form and is cheaper than the original (aren't recasts always cheaper than the original, though?). If recasting is wrong, then it is wrong. If you can find justification for one case, someone else can find justification for another.

That being said, I didn't know Sidkits were recasts of the Coyle. If that is the case, I would advise someone to just save up their money and buy a Coyle. If you want it, then go for the original and the best.
---End Quote---

That was my thought too. It seems there are different levels of recasters and depending on what level they are on is what determines whether or not you get dumped on for buying a known recast.
***************

I always thought so as well, but history showed me that was not true.


Most recasters up until Sid, ripped off the model maker and often ripped off his customers, making a crappy product and shipping junk.


So condemning them was easy.


Giving the devil his due, Sid did a good job with his models, and he never cheated his customers and also gave good replacement service as well. And using my models as a bases made a good model.


IF only he had cleaned up his act, and gotten his own copies of a Bulldog and Steyr and made his own version I would not had any problem with him. And yes I know he said he could not import a real gun, but he could import plastic copies, and he had enough contacts here within the USA to have that done…


Even when he promised to do so with the Worldcom model he fell back to just updating his old copy of my model.


The worst thing was my fight to even be heard on this issue, I had people say it did not happened, that I was wrong, and that I might even be lying…


Until the day he admitted in a post that he had indeed recast me...


Until then there was a major effort to stop me from even pointing out the truth, like just now…"shut up Richard, it is over and poor Sid is dead…etc." (All we have is one person’s report that he died… not even a copy of his Obit…) He simply disappeared.


It got so bad I ended up in major battles just to be heard… I knew I could not stop sales, and all I wanted was to have the truth posted and for everyone to know.. and if someone said, “Ok I know I am buying a recast model, and I am sorry , BUT his is a kit and this price is what I can afford.”


And manned up about it, OK…at lease you acknowledged it.


The thing that fried my bacon was to be told it was not true…the level of Denial was incredible.
I guess to many I was the cold bucket of water to their party…


How dare I cry foul to their fun in buying a recasted model…


Bad enough that he had a major advantage with the cost of production within Italy, and that he was a Gentleman Rancher, so this was a hobby, so he could undercut me big time in prices..and did, it is like competing with Hong Kong models, a unfair fight.


But for his to do so with my own work..well that sure frosted my cookies…


And now his old partner is selling the same recast plastic models kits on eBay and ever so often one of his old all metal model kits as well, how many leftovers did he leave??


Rich

 

[czechplastik]

Is this a follow on from something else?

A little confusing on it's own.

*Edit* read other thread.

 

[SurferGeek]

"Fried my bacon..."

"Frosted my cookies..."

Man, I'm getting hungry now!

:lol

 

[knightone]

[/SIZE]I always thought so as well, but history showed me that was not true.
Most recasters up until Sid, ripped off the model maker and often ripped off his customers, making a crappy product and shipping junk.
So condemning them was easy.
Giving the devil his due, Sid did a good job with his models, and he never cheated his customers and also gave good replacement service as well. And using my models as a bases made a good model.

Yes, but the issue has always been, according to the attacks and arguments, that recasting is the issue. Stealing other people's hard work and passing it off as their own. Not about a crappy product, unethical business practices, etc. If recasting is bad, then it should all be bad. There should be no ifs, ands, or buts. Just because the recast is a good cast, doesn't mean it still isn't a recast. There seem to be a lot of self-righteous people quick to jump down someone's throat for one thing or another, but they seem to be willing to excuse something (at least from the looks of the Sidkit situation) because it is good and high quality despite the fact that you've presented evidence in the past that it was a recast piece. If the argument is actually about business practices or quality, then those are the arguments that should be made. But if stuff like Sidkits and recast DP helmets and the like can be excused just because they are high quality, made of better materials, or whatever reason a collector would want one, then maybe some people aren't as principled as they would like to believe and should mind their own business rather than sticking their nose where it isn't needed.

 

[racprops]

Yes, but the issue has always been, according to the attacks and arguments, that recasting is the issue. Stealing other people's hard work and passing it off as their own. Not about a crappy product, unethical business practices, etc. If recasting is bad, then it should all be bad. There should be no ifs, ands, or buts. Just because the recast is a good cast, doesn't mean it still isn't a recast. There seem to be a lot of self-righteous people quick to jump down someone's throat for one thing or another, but they seem to be willing to excuse something (at least from the looks of the Sidkit situation) because it is good and high quality despite the fact that you've presented evidence in the past that it was a recast piece. If the argument is actually about business practices or quality, then those are the arguments that should be made. But if stuff like Sidkits and recast DP helmets and the like can be excused just because they are high quality, made of better materials, or whatever reason a collector would want one, then maybe some people aren't as principled as they would like to believe and should mind their own business rather than sticking their nose where it isn't needed.

I totaly agree with you, and I had thought it would be as you say..but I am telling you what happened, that many did not care about the act of recasting, as long as they got a good model cheap.

That was as I see it, why I got so much flak.

And to others, sorry this is from the thread:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/2008-sidkit-450-shipped-good-deal-95919/

which some pointed out I might be highjacking, so I started a new thread.

Rich

 

[DemonSeed]

its as JH used to say, alot of people would sell thier soul for a tiny piece of resin.
this is a very grey area, and always has been a hot topic here. Personally, I think some prop collectors are going for the cheaper buy....because they dont have the funds to buy from the original maker.
on the other hand, if the original maker isnt a license holder then technically isn't he stealing the intellectual property of the studio?

RAC: I agree with you one hundred percent. It was your work, and he was profiting from it. too bad it cant be like a contractor subcontractor type of relationship where the maker of the original at least gets a cut of the profits.

this has been a forum hot topic for years, and will be for years to come.

 

[WinstonWolf359]

I'm assuming Steyr and Charter Arms get a cut of every blaster you've sold, right Rich?

 

[Mechamaniac]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sid pass away? Is he back from the dead? Is he some kind of zombie?

Is there a point to this vendetta? The man is DEAD for God's sake.

 

[racprops]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sid pass away? Is he back from the dead? Is he some kind of zombie?

Is there a point to this vendetta? The man is DEAD for God's sake.

Two things, all we know is he disapeared, and one guy said he was told by another guy that Sid died.

And second: his old partner is still making and sell them.

So it goes on.

The thread this came from was talking about what a deal a Sidkit was off ebay.

And for newcomers who was not here years ago, they need to hear about this.


What they do is up to them. But at lease they will know.

That is all I ever wanted.

Rich

 

[SD Studios]

See, ya have to understand...

Every few months, Rich gets down in the dumps and he posts a thread about how:

-Someone "recasted" him...

-Someone under-appreciates him...

-Someone is competing with him on some prop run...

etc, etc.

Then a bunch of people come in and post:

"NO RICH! YOU ARE THE CAT'S PAJAMAS!!!"

And he gets his fix and everything is ok for a few months.

:lol

A few years back, someone else (besides me) noticed this pattern and made the following graphic. Please note that *I* did not make it, I just grabbed it for posterity...

View attachment 34087

Click to enlarge...Sorry, this is the only size file I have. I think it's pretty funny.

Just funnin' with ya, Rich.

As noted...Sid is dead...I think you will be fine on this one. Relax.

 

[KramStaar]

Rich, I'm on record as saying (more than once) that we owe you a debt of gratitude for your tireless contribution to the Blade Runner blaster world. Indeed, we owe everyone our thanks (yes, Sid included) for this unique opportunity but it seems that for some reason you feel hard done by and that you're being ignored or pushed aside - which is beyond ridiculous.

For the newbies here, this thread it pointless because it only carries Rich's side of the story and since Sid is DEAD (yep gone, vanished, in the afterlife), there cannot be a balanced view expressed here and in the end this fight ALWAYS ends up in a war…

Please can I urge those of you interested to search the old threads and to wade through the endless name calling and cat-fights so that you can draw your OWN conclusions. Rich has a good point but Sid also has his and there's a lot of information out there and you will quickly see that its not as straightforward as has been implied here. Its likely that you will find yourself sitting either in one camp or the other.

Rich mate, please could I ask you to have some dignity. You've earned a lot of well deserved respect over the years and that's not going to change. However, if you continue to carp on and cry foul even when the man is gone, all you will end up is being ridiculed and that (after all you've done for us) is totally unnecessary.

With humble respect

MARK

 

[Roger Ramjet]

If you would sell us all one of your blasters for the price Sid was selling his, we will all forget and forgive and be happy again.

 

[knightone]

on the other hand, if the original maker isnt a license holder then technically isn't he stealing the intellectual property of the studio?

I've always made this point as well in the recast argument. The hobby is all iffy, underground, and technically illegal anyway. I have no problem with makers like Rich defending his work if feels he wants and needs to. But I also see a lot of busybodies around here pointing fingers and preaching down to other members when they have no dog in the fight.

 

[Zodou]

Yeah Rich, you should give your kits away; I mean, why should we pay for something that doesn't belong to you anyway! :lol

 

[rollerboi]

Speaking as one who owned a Coyle blaster for years ("dog in this fight"), I don't see how there can be any justification of the recasting. The blasters seem to still be in production, available on ebay, even if they're being associated with someone who is dead. If there were no blasters being sold, I doubt we'd be seeing Rich post about it.

Please, let's not drag this down into a general license holder intellectual property blah blah blah path. This is a community, and we support each other. There are plenty of other threads to discuss this particular flavor of the issue.

And by the way, just because someone can't *afford* a really nice piece of resin is not enough justification to buy a recast version of it. Do what I did, save up for months and dream of owning the real thing. Don't take ethical shortcuts.

 

[knightone]

Do what I did, save up for months and dream of owning the real thing. Don't take ethical shortcuts.

Good advice. I rather have a few great pieces in a small collection than a ton of lesser pieces in a huge collection.

 

[terryr]

There's been an uneven feeling toward 'recasters'. If a member gets a copy of a screen used prop and casts it, no problem. If someone casts that and sells it, RECASTER!!

The usual recaster is there to sell some crap to make a buck. Sidkit was better than that. And he's dead, so there's not likely to be updates.

Really, considering business these days, I'm surprised China isn't doing cheap copies of this stuff. They copy most everything else.

 

[defstartrooper]

Rich, I'm on record as saying (more than once) that we owe you a debt of gratitude for your tireless contribution to the Blade Runner blaster world. Indeed, we owe everyone our thanks (yes, Sid included) for this unique opportunity but it seems that for some reason you feel hard done by and that you're being ignored or pushed aside - which is beyond ridiculous.

For the newbies here, this thread it pointless because it only carries Rich's side of the story and since Sid is DEAD (yep gone, vanished, in the afterlife), there cannot be a balanced view expressed here and in the end this fight ALWAYS ends up in a war…

Please can I urge those of you interested to search the old threads and to wade through the endless name calling and cat-fights so that you can draw your OWN conclusions. Rich has a good point but Sid also has his and there's a lot of information out there and you will quickly see that its not as straightforward as has been implied here. Its likely that you will find yourself sitting either in one camp or the other.

Rich mate, please could I ask you to have some dignity. You've earned a lot of well deserved respect over the years and that's not going to change. However, if you continue to carp on and cry foul even when the man is gone, all you will end up is being ridiculed and that (after all you've done for us) is totally unnecessary.

With humble respect

MARK

Sidkit was accused of recasting parts, Sidkit admitted he recast parts, really how much clearer does it need to be ? the man himself admitted it.

Anything else is just his justification for recasting parts.

 

[Nexus6]

For the newbies here, this thread it pointless because it only carries Rich's side of the story and since Sid is DEAD (yep gone, vanished, in the afterlife), there cannot be a balanced view expressed here and in the end this fight ALWAYS ends up in a war…

Please can I urge those of you interested to search the old threads and to wade through the endless name calling and cat-fights so that you can draw your OWN conclusions. Rich has a good point but Sid also has his and there's a lot of information out there and you will quickly see that its not as straightforward as has been implied here. Its likely that you will find yourself sitting either in one camp or the other.

^Quoted for truth.^

 

[androidandy]

As a third party, even though I guess I can not be considered neutral, I will state what I have learned, and observed about the Sidkit versions of the Blade Runner blaster. The original resin Sidkit was absolutely 100% a recast off of Rich's V3 blaster from 97. He basically cleaned up and simplified it to make it a better kit, and added some metal parts. He also added some custom parts, including a more accurate site rod and notably a real working laser site (albeit clunky looking one). Mostly he also made a working cylinder release so you did not have to remove the Steyr ammo magazine housing in order to load the gun. Though Sid had claimed that another person had sent him the gun claiming it was their model and based on the real gun, he also told me he changed it to make it his version too. He seemed to feel that making improvements and changes were what made the gun his design, ala remix culture, as opposed to a direct copy to what he also thought at the time was a direct copy of the actual hero prop. This was all before Rich had contacted him to set him straight. I am not sure if he Sid was confused by the conflicting information or not, but support he got from the prop community after the truth was known convinced him to keep making the recasts.

Later he decided to do more cleaning of the master and work to make the metal version of the gun, and it was still more than 90% based off of Rich's original 97 V3 model. Most of the changes were minor over all, but the alloy was able to be molded and made cheaply as a kit and filled a void in the market for these models that Rich was not willing to fill until lately. An accurate metal kit. Again I am not sure how much Sid knew about the true origins of the original master gun, but I am sure he suspected enough. Enough that after trying to talk to him for a long time he told me he was interested in making his own version with out any Coyle parts if he could get them with help from people at propsummit and elsewhere.

Sid did end up making his own Worldcon kit shortly before he died that had completely resculpted the grips and cylinder covers. The grips were 100% remade and are a different angle and size than any Coyle version. The covers may have been based on top of the Coyle ones, but since I do not have those in person to compare side by side, I can only say they had a different shape and the details and screw positions where changed to be more accurate to the worldcon gun before Rich had done the same with his version. They also fit to the grips better as well. The greeblies and even the steyr magazine was cast off of stuff I and a few other fans had sent him. Unfortunately the rest of the Steyr and Bulldog parts were still using Rich's casts of those. He stated since those parts were not Rich's to begin with but cast off the real guns, that Rich had no claim to them, even though Rich had done extensive modification to those parts himself. I am convinced that if he was able to get casts off another Steyr and bulldog from another source, he would have used them instead. He did not understand our idea of recasting, and pointed out that many of Rich's works were also recast off of others work as well, even though they were recast off of original props like the Buckaroo Banzai overthruster. He still seemed to not get the point or the subtleties of the unwritten law of "Recasting". He just wanted to make the best version of the gun he could with the only resources he had available to him.

I tried to work a truce between them, and Rich himself had started to make peace with him to work out a kind of partnership with him, but they both had very different ideas on how each would profit from it, and the feud began again.

To be fair and honest, Sid's gun owes most of it's life to Rich, as does many other guns, other than those based on Rick Ross's guns, and the Japanese Oz Shop gun, and a few other inaccurate guns. Including the Offworld which when in its first resin form had used the Steyr bolt lever and now paint scheme from Rich. Rich's versions made the idea of the revolver inside the outer gun a standard concept for almost all gun version since, even though Elfin Knights had done a version using a Charter Arms 38 Bulldog airsoft inside about 5 years earlier.

Sid's metal Alloy also contains antimony which makes it extremely soft, and is even softer than most resins. The antimony allows it to actually grow after cooling instead of shrink like all other metal castings. It is also very heavy, and with the tin in the pewter mix it oxidizes a powder on its surface. It is actually very fragile and brittle as a metal too, and will damage easily. On the plus side of the pewter alloy in the sidkit, is that it will polish up nice and shiny and will not have the blotchiness of hotter melting pewter alloy. It will also take bluing to a degree.

I can't say for sure if Michelle (sp?) in Italy is making all new guns, using parts left over by Sid, or is Sid himself, but he did say through an interpreter that he had obtained all of Sid's stock and had boxes and boxes of stuff from him. He took a long time to send back our parts we sent Sid, but he did in the end. I gave Sid the benefit of the doubt, but this guy who also goes by CoseFX on ebay, has not delivered to many people he has dealt with and has a much looser sense of customer service than Siderio ever did. Recaster or not Sid was very generous and offered several times to send me a kit for free, unfortunately I was never able to get from him. He did send replacement parts from Italy for a kit I got off of another member without asking even for shipping from Italy. Maybe he was trying to buy my loyalty to him and some good reviews, but that is why I told him I would not accept his gifts with any strings attached, and he accepted that and my criticism of him online for his dealings with Rich.

It is a shame that the truce between and posible partnership between him and Rich never happened, and I can only hope that the bickering that happened on propsummit did not contribute to his death from a heart attack. He was a recaster for sure, but I think other nicer things are written on his tombstone instead.

Andy