Shenmue Mirror replica, wood carving 1st timer with question

[TheScratcher]

Hi fellow makers,

I would like to recreate the "Mirrors" from the game "Shenmue" out of wood.
Never worked with wood and can not find online what I am looking for.



The Pieces are 13cm (5in) in diameter each, so the carving is fairly detailled.
in online tutorials I couldnt find carving this detailled.



So that how it should look in the end.

Question is, am I assuming right that I should NOT use chisels to
carve and hammer away at the background?
I guess the lines (representing clouds) or the mane of the dragon or his
fingers. Things very tiny, will then just snap away.

So I guess what I should do is use a rotary tool and get rid of the
background with carbite bits, then "draw" in the detailles of with
a diamond bit?

I bought a rotary tool just for that, it included 2 small diamond bits
that dont seem to get rid of any material.
Are the bits included just crap or is there a smarter way to
get rid of material while still maintaining detail?

 

[Onkelpsycho]

Pretty cool project... Will follow with interest...

 

[TheScratcher]

Pretty cool project... Will follow with interest...

Thank you, I plan to record the whole ordeal and put it up on youtube when I am done.
First I gotta wait 1-2 weeks for more tools to arrive though.
I got the dremel but no bits as of yet, no sandpaper and no chisels.
Everything ordered though.
So you gotta be a bit patient

 

[thepoynt]

Yeah, I'd personally go the direction of carbide bits in a rotary tool. Before getting a rotary tool I did a ton of carving with just hand tools, and carving little details across the grain in soft wood is a real pain. A few different shapes and sizes of carbide bits will get you a long way (my personal favorites are cone shapes, followed by cylinders and spheres). Then you can clean it up with those diamond bits (not meant for material removal, more for tiny details and finish work), sharp blades, and fine sandpaper.

Also, if you don't have a good set of woodcarving knives, they're totally worth investing in. At least an angled knife, v-gouge, and a couple different curved gouges. I've had mine since I was a kid and they've helped me with more projects than any other tool (followed closely by my x-acto knife).

 

[TheScratcher]

Yeah, I'd personally go the direction of carbide bits in a rotary tool. Before getting a rotary tool I did a ton of carving with just hand tools, and carving little details across the grain in soft wood is a real pain. A few different shapes and sizes of carbide bits will get you a long way (my personal favorites are cone shapes, followed by cylinders and spheres). Then you can clean it up with those diamond bits (not meant for material removal, more for tiny details and finish work), sharp blades, and fine sandpaper.

Also, if you don't have a good set of woodcarving knives, they're totally worth investing in. At least an angled knife, v-gouge, and a couple different curved gouges. I've had mine since I was a kid and they've helped me with more projects than any other tool (followed closely by my x-acto knife).

Thank you for the helping intel.
So I guess it goes:

1. carve along the lines with a V-gouge
(dont have one yet so I tried to cut V shapes along the lines with a
cheap carpet knife, as seen on the head and wing of the phoenix on the photo)
2. remove material with carbide bit
3. ????? no idea how to level the background, aaaabsolutely no clue
4. when background is magically levelled, carve or dremel down the
design, bit by bit with gouges or dremel

 

[thepoynt]

Sounds like a good plan to me.
I think it should work well to use the bit to remove the bulk of the background, then use a sharp, small chisel to level/smooth it out

 

[TheScratcher]

spent 30,- dollars on ebay for chisels, burrs and diamond bits.
so none of them will be good for much probably. (the price comes for a price...)
would have to sharpen the chisels after every cut probably.
hopefully the stone sanding bits that came with the rotary tool will help
to sharpen them again

 

[TheScratcher]

Man I cant seem to be able to clean up the background.
no piece of sandpaper fits in anywhere and the bits and burrs I have
either dont fit in the tiny creveces or destroy more than clean or
dont shave off anything at all....

 

[thepoynt]

A small chisel might work. Otherwise, any sharp instrument that can fit can be scraped across perpendicular to the surface. This will slowly shave down material. Sometimes that technique works really great for me.

The good news is it looks like the in-game model has a stippled, textured background, so you just have to get it close, then can stipple it and that'll cover over imperfections nicely.

 

[TheScratcher]

Thanks for the tip, I´ll try that.
(already broke the tip of 2 chisels....Well I knew a 10 dollar set from china cant be good though)
Ill give my best so my very first wood work, first carving looks passable somehow.
Will definetely update and redo the whole thing after the first one is done and
apply all Ive learned.

But of course before I start on a second mirror, I must also paint the first one.
Since I have also never painted anything, I will definately ask about that process
because ....as always.... I have no idea what I am doing

 

[thepoynt]

Best of luck! Working with wood (both woodcarving and woodworking) has an infinite learning curve, but can be an incredibly satisfying and enjoyable hobby; I hope you come away from this project having had fun, and not frustrated

 

[TheScratcher]

Finally the tiny diamond bits arrived and they sure helped a ton.
Sadly there seems to be no way for all the tiny tiny wood splinters
and other weird thing, to get rid of. even the diamond bits just
make parts kind of ...fuzzy? sometimes. hard to explain. looks
like cottonballs out of wood.
Its hard to get in anywhere with sandpaper as well.

but before painting it HAS TO be smooth right?

about painting...
lets say I paint at some point, what would be the
best approach?
prime it, brush on a base green everywhere,
use sponge or cloth or whatever to hopefully be
able to fake white streaks so it looks like stone.
then apint the phoenix in another colour, also with a
sponge maybe? so it doesnt look just like colour
smacked on but more like a fine gradiant, like the in-game design.
So it should look like light water colour but the phoenix colour still
has to be strong enough to hide the green underneath.
that worries me. and of course the stone look of the green seems
extremely challenging too. for someone who never held a brush.

 

[thepoynt]

Looking good! Maybe try some fine steel wool? That can sometimes conform to the surface and remove the "fuzzies" from hard-to-reach areas. Otherwise, if you put down a thin layer of primer and then try sanding, that can help too. Either way, you'll want to put down primer and sand it so as to fill in the wood grain and get a smooth surface.

Once you've done that, I'd search YouTube for tutorials on painting marble. There's a bunch there, and it's not too hard to achieve some pretty great results. Then you should be able to use a brush to put down the color for the phoenix. Just get all the paint you need on a palette of some sort, then start with green, then yellow, then red, just grabbing a bit of the color you want and brush it on, blending it together as you go. They key is to just do it all in one go, so the paint stays wet and you can blend the colors together. Then once you like it, hit it with several coats of gloss clear finish.

 

[TheScratcher]

Thanks for the quick and helpful reply.
ill buy and try steel wool.
sanding after priming to get a smooth surface sounds great too.
any idea though how I could sand those tiny holes?
for example the end of the swirly bits often curl into holes, then of course all the holes in every tail section
and many other seemingly impossible to reach bits.

painting while its wet sounds like a very interesting idea too.

I just started a new mirror.
Before I spend money I actually shouldnt spend, on tons of paint,
I will just make more and more mirrors simply to get better.
(already spent well over 100,- just for what I needed up to this point
and I am unemployed as of late so money is tight....)
The bad looking ones (this one included) will then be great
test subjects for painting.

I shall post photos of new mirrors as well, for my one follower

 

[thepoynt]

Sometimes the only way to get into those tiny spots is with the tip of an x-acto blade or some sharp tweezers, and you can maybe clean it up some with those. And again, sometimes that's easier after a coat of primer, sometimes not. If you're treating this one as a test, that gives you some freedom to try some different techniques.

If you stipple the background with one of your burs, that'll make any uneven or rough spots blend right in. I would highly recommend doing that.

At the end of the day, there's really no "right" way to do this stuff. Just experiment and find what works best for you. Best of luck!

 

[TheScratcher]

As expected I now have no clue how to paint the piece.
Searching on google or youtube on how to paint wood only ever gives results of furniture
and people slapping on flat, singular paints on wood.
Marbling a tiny detailed piece of wood isnt a thing I could find.
(thank you thepoynt for the tip of searching "marbling" though, absollutely GREAT tutorials out there!)

I just wonder how to prepare the wood and what kind of paint I should use on it:

1. In order to hide all the woodgrain and make everything smooth and nice, I should first use
primer.
But the internet tells me, one has to sand every bit for primer and color to stick. Problem is
that not even holding a foldet piece of sandpaper and trying to get it into all the crevices and corners is impossible.
I wonder if I really need to sand the whole thing.

2 after priming I wonder what type of paint one should use.
for marbling, everybody uses acrylic paint. because it mixes nicely and doesnt look like a flat, contrast heavy,
boring, singular color. it seems to flow organically.
but sites on painting wood say water based colors are a bad idea and one should use oil based paints.
Im basically scared of wasting tons of money on paint that is the wrong choice. (already spend about 200 Dollars
on all the tools and other small things....and I am unemployed and shouldnt waste money...)

3. oh and how do I get the glass ball to stick in there? wood glue? super glue?
will ANY glue even work? because the glass ball is obviously smooth and therefor clue has
nothing to grip on. any idea?

 

[Onkelpsycho]

What about sand blasting with very small grain? If you do it with less pressure it has maybe the same effect as sanding it with paper...

If you have details in your carving, get sure to thin down the primer, so it doesn't fill out and ruin small details...

What about a mix of thin acrylic paint and a normal spray finish. I know acyrlic paint is not the best for wood and you have to work with brushes, etc. so it's not as smooth as with spray paint, but it is water-based, so it is easier to mix it with other colours and you can work out the right colour with different techniques, even marble imitation is possible...

I used often acrylic paint for wood, and it isn't as bad as you mabe think...

Great job btw. Have you ever thought of making a resin cast? So you can solve the painting question and you can do more casts of the mirror and try out what's the best way to paint it...

 

[TheScratcher]

Thank you very much for the reply

What about sand blasting with very small grain?

I "work" in my bedroom (or my one room apartment) and do not have any tools at all other than the ones
I bought just to carve. I do not have a sand blaster thingamagig and can not afford any more things.

If you have details in your carving, get sure to thin down the primer, so it doesn't fill out and ruin small details...

You are absolutely right about that, I worry about that too. In the photo you see the lines in the wings or the scales for example. they are not even 1mm deep.
But I also want to get rid of uneven places in the background and especially the woodgrain. Looking forward to dealing with that problem.

What about a mix of thin acrylic paint and a normal spray finish. I know acyrlic paint is not the best for wood and you have to work with brushes, etc. so it's not as smooth as with spray paint, but it is water-based, so it is easier to mix it with other colours and you can work out the right colour with different techniques, even marble imitation is possible...

I did a youtube search on spraypaint marbling. do you mean the imitation of such an effect by doint "hydro dipping"?
If not - can you please provide a link to some kind of tutorial on how you mean it would work?
(I seriously have no clue what im doing, everything is new to me and I even heard most of the words for the first time (non native) so I am sorry
when I seem awfully dumb and unknowing - its because I am haha)

by the way. is it true that the reason acrylic paint is bad for wood is because of woodgrain and that it soacks up the water bits, resulting in weird colours and
other defects BUT primer fixes ALL these problems?
so basically when primer is applied, acrylic paint has no negative effects? (just some google information I wondered about)

Great job btw. Have you ever thought of making a resin cast? So you can solve the painting question and you can do more casts of the mirror and try out what's the best way to paint it...

great idea!
years ago I had some interest in mold making and stuff. until I found its abslutetly impossible!!!!
1. my country doesnt sell any products needed for a proper mould. yesterday I went to 3 huge hardwarestores and none of them
had even a single damn end-mill bit. I was shocked! one guy told me that such things just arent needed for anyone.
2. smooth on products for example are mentally expensive. 200 Dollars for a can of the stuff and 100 dollars more for shipping.
mental.

Man I wish moulding would be a thing in my country...

sorry for seeming so incompetent.

 

[Onkelpsycho]

I "work" in my bedroom (or my one room apartment) and do not have any tools at all other than the ones
I bought just to carve. I do not have a sand blaster thingamagig and can not afford any more things.

I understand. Of course I don't have these possibilities. But here it is like that, that normally someone knows another one, who is working in a business, where they have the tools to do things like that. If you ask friendly, someone is able to do a job like this, maybe for a little "tip".

But if that's not possible, maybe some small graining tools will do the job, and maybe that's enough sanding for the paintjob.

I did a youtube search on spraypaint marbling. do you mean the imitation of such an effect by doint "hydro dipping"?
If not - can you please provide a link to some kind of tutorial on how you mean it would work?
(I seriously have no clue what im doing, everything is new to me and I even heard most of the words for the first time (non native) so I am sorry
when I seem awfully dumb and unknowing - its because I am haha)

Hydro Dipping is cool, but defineatly a little bit too expensive and I think you won't have the possibilities to do things like that. No, I mean painting techniques with normal brushes and sponges. Take a look at this, maybe it's not the pattern you need, but it comes close to how these techniques work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFsTGjGVzcE

by the way. is it true that the reason acrylic paint is bad for wood is because of woodgrain and that it soacks up the water bits, resulting in weird colours and
other defects BUT primer fixes ALL these problems?
so basically when primer is applied, acrylic paint has no negative effects? (just some google information I wondered about)

Well, as I said: I had never problems with acrylic paint on wood. I made some shields from Lord of the Rings and some other props and painted them with acrylic paint and it looked ok for me, even withour primer... Paint always gets a little bit darker when it dries, but not that much... Try it on a small piece how it looks when it's dry, before you paint the real piece.

great idea!
years ago I had some interest in mold making and stuff. until I found its abslutetly impossible!!!!
1. my country doesnt sell any products needed for a proper mould. yesterday I went to 3 huge hardwarestores and none of them
had even a single damn end-mill bit. I was shocked! one guy told me that such things just arent needed for anyone.
2. smooth on products for example are mentally expensive. 200 Dollars for a can of the stuff and 100 dollars more for shipping.
mental.

Man I wish moulding would be a thing in my country...

Yes. It really depends on the country you live. Here in Germany a small can of resin is about 20-50€ (about $60-70), thats really expensive, so it is cheaper to import all props from the USA here in the RPF, that's a lot cheaper... :lol So, I feel with you.

I think at the end you have to decide. I would say, try it carefully with thin primer and maybe on another piece of wood...

 

[TheScratcher]

"here in germany"?

I live in munich an absolutely dispise the place and germany as a whole.
like I said I visited 3 hardware stores and none had an end-mill bit (toom, BZO and hagebaumarkt)

ESPECIALLY about the "friends" bit you said.
germans are SO arrogant and selfish. ( not saying 100% of the lot, I am one myself after all too)

In order to get into what I actually would like to do with my life, I called the gold and silversmith guild (Innung)
of munich AND I called 164....yes 164 gold and silversmiths in and around munich.
to ask if I can just help out in the shop or whatever, just to learn.
But noooo you need a 3 year apprenticeship for every tiny hand gesture and you only get 200 dollars
a month for a fulltiime job for 3 years.
how could any normal human do this?
now I have to be an unemployed human waste because "normals" jobs depress me too much
and all craftsmenship jobs require things that would render me homeless and starve me...
I hate germany