you da man! :thumbsup
Revisiting the old ESB screws vs rivets grips question :)
- Thread starter tomleech
- Start date
you da man! :thumbsup
DARTH SABER
Master Member
just took these off my 60" flat screen -
is it me?
is it me?
Great points. You may very well be right, and I'm not married to this particular theory, but here are a couple of points in response:
o The reason I think it looks like the screws may be missing is because on the centrally located T track, it looks like there's an off-center black dot surrounded by a bright ring:
If that black dot was centered in the ring, I'd say it looked like a Phillips head screw or hex or rivet or what-have-you. The fact that it's off-center suggests to me it might actually be a hole, made visible by a hole in the T track
o The difference in brightness may be due to a highly reflective screw, or it may possibly be due to the angle of that point relative to the light. It's not uncommon to see a bright band down a cylindrical object, because the light is reflecting directly back to the observer along that axis only. It's hard to say.
o You make a really good point about the broken T track. One possible explanation may be that it broke because it was inherently weaker there due to the hole. Perhaps there had in fact been a screw there, but it was removed in preparation for replacing the T track. In any event, the reason why the screws may have been removed in this specific situation is slightly tangential to the question of whether that did in fact occur, and if that might explain the anomalies in the actual film.
o I have to admit, I don't personally own a Graflex, nor have I seen one in person. Based on its apparent stamped sheet-metal construction, I've assumed the steel is relatively thin at the base, which means the threads of the screws might not have had much to capture. With repeated screwing and unscrewing (especially if an electric screwdriver or drill was used), it seems possible to me the bases might have gotten stripped out. Even if they used nuts, or a block of wood in the base, nuts can get lost, and I doubt any substance they would have used to screw into would have so robust as to make stripping a great unlikelihood. They might very well have thought that screwing down the T tracks would be the cure to all their woes, but that does not necessarily prove that it did.
jkno
Legendary Member
Screwvets
Lichtbringer
Master Member
I used screws, so screws were used. ;-)
matty matt
Sr Member
Schrodinger's Lightsaber?
russellsch
Master Member
I heard Lucasfilm has a finished 4k cut of ANH right now. Hopefully they'll do a 4K of Empire & Jedi, & then release them. That way we can see the props better, & end this destructive conflict!
I have Allen screws on mine. Just so if it turns out there are rivets on there then I can pull the screws out and replace with rivets and vise versa[emoji6].
I wanna argue too!
I think rivets on the ESB are kinda like remembering Luke having a yellow lightsaber or swearing you had the Boba Fett figure with the shooting backpack... or the Berenstein Bears alternate universe theory...
Until the 90s, the only images available of the lightsaber were stills presented in magazines. Art books, visual dictionaries and the like did not exist. It was obvious that some sort of screw or rivet was being used to keep the grips in place.
When the original SW RPG came out in 1987, it was the first to make use of archive materials which gave us a few more glimpses outside of VHA or Laserdisc pauses .The first attempts to truly offer up a decent look of the saber came from Shane Johnson’s SW Tech Journal (1993). Using the material above he drew his blueprint and used rivets in the grip design. He didn't CALL them rivets, but that's what they looked like.
This seemed logical given that one of the few things clear onscreen is that the kobold d-ring assembly uses rivets. I assumed this to be the gospel (and its why I had 25 years with an inaccurate vintage graflex) and I think many others did as well because the first Visual Dictionary in 1998 followed his lead, and so, then too did the first wave of official replicas, all of them using rivets.
When you watch ESB, there's SOMETHING there, and it's never been clear enough that they WEREN'T rivets, so I think that they persist as an option. I've seen countless builds with rivets and they don't seem wrong. This is branded into our consciousness-- even to the point that for TFA, the prop-jerks rolled with the same assumption.
I accepted screws eventually as at least being on the Dagobah version, but this place has gotten to me. Now I see screws across the board-- in the Wampa cave, the R2 bump... after 20 years of KNOWING I saw rivets, now I can't see anything other than screws.
I think rivets on the ESB are kinda like remembering Luke having a yellow lightsaber or swearing you had the Boba Fett figure with the shooting backpack... or the Berenstein Bears alternate universe theory...
Until the 90s, the only images available of the lightsaber were stills presented in magazines. Art books, visual dictionaries and the like did not exist. It was obvious that some sort of screw or rivet was being used to keep the grips in place.
When the original SW RPG came out in 1987, it was the first to make use of archive materials which gave us a few more glimpses outside of VHA or Laserdisc pauses .The first attempts to truly offer up a decent look of the saber came from Shane Johnson’s SW Tech Journal (1993). Using the material above he drew his blueprint and used rivets in the grip design. He didn't CALL them rivets, but that's what they looked like.
This seemed logical given that one of the few things clear onscreen is that the kobold d-ring assembly uses rivets. I assumed this to be the gospel (and its why I had 25 years with an inaccurate vintage graflex) and I think many others did as well because the first Visual Dictionary in 1998 followed his lead, and so, then too did the first wave of official replicas, all of them using rivets.
When you watch ESB, there's SOMETHING there, and it's never been clear enough that they WEREN'T rivets, so I think that they persist as an option. I've seen countless builds with rivets and they don't seem wrong. This is branded into our consciousness-- even to the point that for TFA, the prop-jerks rolled with the same assumption.
I accepted screws eventually as at least being on the Dagobah version, but this place has gotten to me. Now I see screws across the board-- in the Wampa cave, the R2 bump... after 20 years of KNOWING I saw rivets, now I can't see anything other than screws.
Aaaaaaaand I just scrolled up to see the snowspeeder pic... son of a bitch...
We like to make sure we can count number the amount of heroes used in a film, and do so by spotting differences... but in the prop world there are always multiples.
I'm revising my belief to be that there is a hero with screws, and a hero with rivets. Screws on Bespin, Screws and rivets interchange on Hoth, Dagobah could be the screws hero missing a knob, or could be a third belt hanger.
We like to make sure we can count number the amount of heroes used in a film, and do so by spotting differences... but in the prop world there are always multiples.
I'm revising my belief to be that there is a hero with screws, and a hero with rivets. Screws on Bespin, Screws and rivets interchange on Hoth, Dagobah could be the screws hero missing a knob, or could be a third belt hanger.
Thetyler0013
New Member
Great thread since I am currently building my (2.0) replica right now lol. I am going with Silver screws. But Honestly I think its ALL of the Silver/Black screws and or rivets. Back then they didnt care for accuracy in detail.
Ridire Firean
Sr Member
O.K. Gang, I think I've come up with the end-all-be-all solution.
There are six grip strips correct? So, ...
1. Rivet
2. Phillips Screw
3. Flat-head Screw
4. Button Head Socket Screw (Allen Key kind)
5. Button Head Torx Screw
6. Button Head Tamper-proof Torx Screw
Which ever yahoo calls you out to say that such-and-such type of screw is used in such-and-such scene or tour display, you just turn that one towards the camera before you take your photo and tell them that's exactly what you used to create your replica. TA-DA~!
There are six grip strips correct? So, ...
1. Rivet
2. Phillips Screw
3. Flat-head Screw
4. Button Head Socket Screw (Allen Key kind)
5. Button Head Torx Screw
6. Button Head Tamper-proof Torx Screw
Which ever yahoo calls you out to say that such-and-such type of screw is used in such-and-such scene or tour display, you just turn that one towards the camera before you take your photo and tell them that's exactly what you used to create your replica. TA-DA~!
Oh my god he's right! This could be the end to all our problems[emoji38]O.K. Gang, I think I've come up with the end-all-be-all solution.
There are six grip strips correct? So, ...
1. Rivet
2. Phillips Screw
3. Flat-head Screw
4. Button Head Socket Screw (Allen Key kind)
5. Button Head Torx Screw
6. Button Head Tamper-proof Torx Screw
Which ever yahoo calls you out to say that such-and-such type of screw is used in such-and-such scene or tour display, you just turn that one towards the camera before you take your photo and tell them that's exactly what you used to create your replica. TA-DA~!
O.K. Gang, I think I've come up with the end-all-be-all solution.
There are six grip strips correct? So, ...
1. Rivet
2. Phillips Screw
3. Flat-head Screw
4. Button Head Socket Screw (Allen Key kind)
5. Button Head Torx Screw
6. Button Head Tamper-proof Torx Screw
Which ever yahoo calls you out to say that such-and-such type of screw is used in such-and-such scene or tour display, you just turn that one towards the camera before you take your photo and tell them that's exactly what you used to create your replica. TA-DA~!
THATS WHAT IM GOING TO DO!!! GENIUS!!!! :thumbsup
Good thing you ran for cover. But you can't hide forever[emoji38]. I'll get you for that later lol.*ARKM tries to throw a monkey wrench into all this*
Ah but did the security/temper proof versions of torx and Allen screws exist in the early 80s?
*runs for cover*
ARKM
Sr Member
We should also look at the Hoth Blaster for judgement of pictures. What we all thought were hex cap screws turned out to be tiny slightly stripped phillips heads and poor lighting.
Once I see definitive proof of something other than what we've seen, pan head phillips screws from electronic equipment, I'll change my mind
Once I see definitive proof of something other than what we've seen, pan head phillips screws from electronic equipment, I'll change my mind
Love it.
In fact, when I was installing my slotted screws, I lost one and used a philllips one instead, "temporarily". Eventually, I went "meh, it's accurate from a certain point of view".
(it's also on the side opposite the clamp, so it isn't even seen when wearing, nor on display)
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