Resurrect Firefly?

I adore Firefly, but I just don't see this coming off well, even if it did happen.
And please, NO REBOOT :thumbsdown If it happens accept Wash & Shepard are gone. The Firefly universe isn't a place where people come back from the dead.
Although one of them could have a twin I suppose :lol
 
I actually think the best comparison to Firefly's first (and only) season is Buffy's first season. Both are, as I recall, only 13 episodes a piece. Both are mostly episodic monster/job of the week. Firefly had even less of a thru-line than Buffy did with the Master. Both involve NO deaths on the part of the crew/scoobies, and some buildup of romantic tension. Both end mostly happily, and without any NEED for continuation to wrap up the story (albeit some dangling plot points in Firefly -- IE: who are the "hands of blue" and why do they want River).

Still, on the whole, both have the witty Whedon dialogue that folks like, a few sort of "twist your guts" episodes, but without the usual "Ok, I'm going to make you all HATE me and sort of love me at the same time" things that Whedon does (getting characters together, only to have a stray piece of Skylab land on one just after the other says "I think I'm falling in love with you..."), etc.


Look, I love Joss Whedon's work for the most part, but the guy definitely is predictable in terms of what he tends to do. There are NO romantic relationships in any Whedonverse that I can think of which end well or even continue indefinitely. Major name, beloved, regular cast members DIE in every show, frequently in very abrupt fashion, often RIGHT after some great moment of happiness has occurred. While Whedon usually pays this off by using it to drive emotional development for his remaining characters, it's still pretty much a given in his shows.



So, for all the warm fuzzies that Firefly seems to give folks, for all the "We shot this mostly in red tint" hominess of the ship interior (especially the mess), and for all the upbeat fun of the first season, I think s**t was gonna get DARK in that universe as the show progressed. I could see a second civil war breaking out, with the crew caught in the middle. I could see Kaylee or Simon or both dying or at least breaking up. I could see Inara and Mal never getting together, or Inara dying just as she tells Mal she loves him. I could VERY easily see Zoe being pregnant, and flipping her s**t out as she deals with a season of Wash hallucinations, finally culminating in her baby's birth, and her leaving the crew (or, you know, dying). I could see Jayne, as I said, being the Cordelia.

And it'd all be a great ride...but it wouldn't be exactly what everyone has come to believe Firefly is. It wouldn't have the same feel as the first season, and it would've been soul-crushing at points. Whedon's strength is his writing ability and his capacity to make you really love characters. Whedon's weakness (in my opinion) is his predictable penchant for effing with those characters and the audience mercilessly. You know what'd stun me in a Whedon series? A solid romance that survives the entire show. THAT would floor me because it'd be SO out of character for him. Doubly so if EVERYONE lived. I rather doubt he could do it, actually.
 
Jedi2016 said:
I don't see it happening. People said the same thing about the film, but it didn't do nearly well enough. Despite all the people supporting it, they were apparently the only ones to actually go see it.
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Realistically, Serenity was a film made specifically for Firefly fans--if you hadn't seen the series, the film wouldn't make much sense because you wouldn't understand the premise, the character relationships, etc.. Also, though I liked the film, it didn't quite have the same "feel" as the series. I can understand why it didn't do particularly well.

As for a Firefly revival, I'd only be interested if they were able to bring back the entire creative and talent staff (i.e., writers, directors, production designers, actors, etc.); even then it would be a gamble.
 
Solo4114 said:
Whedon's weakness (in my opinion) is his predictable penchant for effing with those characters and the audience mercilessly. You know what'd stun me in a Whedon series? A solid romance that survives the entire show. THAT would floor me because it'd be SO out of character for him. Doubly so if EVERYONE lived. I rather doubt he could do it, actually.
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Can't say I disagree with a single point you've made. This point in particular is very true and one show that I think has proven that characters can be somewhat happy AND continue to be challenged without killing off the love interest is Chuck. Even after Chuck and Sarah got together, the writers managed to keep them together without it hurting the story or the ratings (as far as I'm aware). That show handles emotional development a far sight better than Whedon in my opinion at least based on everything I've seen from Whedon so far.

I thought when Joss killed Buffy's mom, it was very powerfully done and very effective. Then he did it AGAIN with Tara... and I thought "alright, whatever..." it at least gave a reason for Willow to go evil. Then he did it again with both Book AND Wash in Serenity AND Topher's girlfriend in Dollhouse AND yet again with Felicia Day's character in Dr. Horrible. And come to think of it, he did it on Angel too - he killed off Amy Acker's character right after her and Wesley hooked up and were on the verge of happiness. I think there was another instance on Angel as well... We should make a definitive list of Joss Whedon's pointless character deaths :p

You'd think at some point Joss would figure out that he can't keep doing it and it remain a powerful storytelling element. It's powerful once. Maybe twice but not after all of those episodes and particularly when most of the same audience are the ones watching his shows (i.e. Buffy fans and Browncoats.)

It makes me appreciate what they are doing narratively with a show like Chuck.
 
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dualedge said:
Can't say I disagree with a single point you've made. This point in particular is very true and one show that I think has proven that characters can be somewhat happy AND continue to be challenged without killing off the love interest is Chuck. Even after Chuck and Sarah got together, the writers managed to keep them together without it hurting the story or the ratings (as far as I'm aware). That show handles emotional development a far sight better than Whedon in my opinion at least based on everything I've seen from Whedon so far.
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You know, I haven't watched any of that show, but I may have to check it out, based on this. Whedon's main argument for why he consistently brings together and then breaks up (usually through extremely painful events) couples is that it's necessary for drama. And yet, the man is married! You'd figure that he'd recognize there's PLENTY of drama to be found WITHIN a relationship that continues, even one that continues successfully, to keep things from getting stale. Anyway, thanks for the tip!

I thought when Joss killed Buffy's mom, it was very powerfully done and very effective. Then he did it AGAIN with Tara... and I thought "alright, whatever..." it at least gave a reason for Willow to go evil. Then he did it again with both Book AND Wash in Serenity AND Topher's girlfriend in Dollhouse AND yet again with Felicia Day's character in Dr. Horrible. And come to think of it, he did it on Angel too - he killed off Amy Acker's character right after her and Wesley hooked up and were on the verge of happiness. I think there was another instance on Angel as well... We should make a definitive list of Joss Whedon's pointless character deaths :p
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It's not just the deaths. Let's review:








WARNING!!!! HERE THERE BE SPOILERS!!!!!













- Xander and Cordy --> broken up by a stray piece of rebar, even though Cordy lived (but it could've gone either way).

- Xander and Willow --> broken up by Cordy catching them and impaling herself on said rebar.

- Willow and Oz --> broken up by him deciding that he was too dangerous to be around her.

- Willow and Tara --> broken up by a stray 9mm round.

- Giles and Ms. Calendar --> broken up by Evil Angel snapping her neck like a dry twig.

- Spike and Dru --> broken up by her leaving him for a slime demon. (hey, I had to include a little levity here)

- Buffy and Angel --> broken up by: (1) him experiencing happiness and losing his soul while she lost her virginity to him, (2) her impaling him and sending him to hell as soon as he got his soul back, (3) him deciding that he needed to remain a vampire and giving up his humanity (in that one episode of Angel), etc., etc., etc.

- Buffy and Riley --> broken up by Riley being too insecure to handle being weaker than Buffy, and Buffy being too stubborn to let him in.

- Buffy and Spike --> broken up by it being a REALLY BAD IDEA in the first place, followed by Spike sacrificing himself. (Not sure what happened after that, if anything.)

- Xander and Anya --> broken up by: (1) Xander getting cold feet at the wedding, and (2) Anya getting bisected in the final battle.

- Glenn and Cordy --> broken up by him sacrificing himself.

- Cordy and Angel --> broken up by (1) her ascending to semi-godhood, and (2) dying.

- Cordy and Connor --> a really messed up "relationship", but broken up by her death.

- Angel and Darla --> broken up by him gaining a soul and leaving her, followed by her sacrificing herself after Connor is born.

- Fred and Gunn --> broken up by...aw hell, I don't remember anymore. Let's just say "irreconcilable differences." No deaths this time around.

- Fred and Wesley --> broken up by her becoming a demon or something.


And that's just the Buffyverse. I haven't even touched Dollhouse (which i haven't seen) or Dr. Horrible.



Now, in general, Whedon USUALLY pays off his character deaths by having it move the story along and develop other characters. The death of Buffy's mom was particularly well handled. The deaths in Serenity were poorly handled, but some of that was down to the fact that they didn't have time to pay them off (I still think Wash's death was done poorly, though, even within the context of the film). But yeah, are we noticing a PATTERN here?!

You'd think at some point Joss would figure out that he can't keep doing it and it remain a powerful storytelling element. It's powerful once. Maybe twice but not after all of those episodes and particularly when most of the same audience are the ones watching his shows (i.e. Buffy fans and Browncoats.)
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Yep.

What I find most ironic about it all is that with Buffy, Whedon's goal was to turn a genre convention (tiny blonde thing walks into an alley and is eaten by a monster or gutted by a masked lunatic) on its head....and in the process has managed to create his very own two cliches applicable solely to his works:

1.) Place your bets on who's gonna die, and when. Although if someone says "I'm just so happy!" or anything like it, chances are their number's up. (I didn't even make a list of THOSE characters...like Buffy's mom, Jonathan, etc.) Actually, I suppose this is true in horror movies as well, which is doubly ironic, considering he wanted to flip those very conventions.

2.) If you see a happy couple, even a dysfunctional happy couple, THEY WILL BE BROKEN UP, and usually by violent death (see also, #1).


Whedon's a good writer, but I find this element of his work to be irritating in the extreme. It's become old hat, really, like an M. Night Shyamalan movie with a "twist." You may not know what the "twist" will be, but you know there will be one. Likewise, you may not know who's gonna die, but you know main characters WILL die eventually. It's just a matter of time (and possibly not being canceled prematurely). Same with the romances. They WILL break up, it's just a question of when and how. And maybe which one of the two (or more) will die to make it happen.



P.S. In the new Avengers movie, my bet is that Hawkeye or Mockingbird will die right after Hawkeye decides to confess his love to her. I'm guessing a stray electrical cable in the Avengers mansion smacks him and fries him.
 
Solo4114 said:
P.S. In the new Avengers movie, my bet is that Hawkeye or Mockingbird will die right after Hawkeye decides to confess his love to her. I'm guessing a stray electrical cable in the Avengers mansion smacks him and fries him.
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:lol

Awesome post. So, so true. I had forgotten a number of those breakups and/or deaths. :lol

Yeah, I'm praying hard that Whedon avoids some of his usual cliches for the Avengers. I don't really expect him to but I keep holding out hope he'll try something new eventually. I half expect exactly what you're predicting. Hawkeye realizes he's happy and then out of the blue, the Hulk crashes through a wall and flattens his love interest. :lol

Chuck is a pretty fun show - mind you, it's more of a comedy first and then action/drama second (not unlike Buffy in a way I suppose but less like Angel, Firefly or Dollhouse) but I'm really surprised by how nicely some of the more emotional scenes are handled. It took some time to ramp up to that and it's not perfect but I think it makes an interesting counterpoint to the way Whedon handles things. It might be worth checking out...
 
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