R.I.P. Robin Williams

[dascoyne]

Shazbat.

 

[Jedi-72]

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

 

[nitrox]

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

I would say your lack of understanding for clinical depression is rather shortsighted and narrow minded.

 

[gizmo]

I would say your lack of understanding for clinical depression is rather shortsighted and narrow minded.

Exactly. For somebody to even consider suicide they are in a very dark place and see no way out. They are not trying to hurt the people they love or be selfish or weak in any way. They are in a frame of mind that somebody without experience or knowledge Connot even fathom. I've experienced anxiety in my lifetime and let me tell you,its what you think it is but multiplied by 1000. Peoples ignorance toward this does not help. I had a close friend commit suicide 10 years ago and the last thing I think of him is a coward or weak in any way. People are affraid of what they don't understand and ignorance is their best defense in my opinion.


Ben

 

[DARKSIDE72]

I would say this is a well adjusted thought on the subject and not a lame ass excuse for "checking out". anyone who just kills themselves for no reason is a weak individual...

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

 

[Jedi-72]

I'd say your lack of understanding for clinical depression is rather shortsighted and narrow minded.

Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna get into the weeds in an argument where we're just philosophically opposed. Respectfully disagree. I believe in holding ourselves accountable. We have the control. I abhor the culture of victimization perpetuated on us that serves to instill in us a sense of helplessness and absolution of responsibility because "We can't help it". Nonsense.

I wish the man peace, if there is such a thing. Sweet man. I'm not religious. I don't know God exists. But, if he does, I imagine he's going Sgt. Hartman on Williams right now..."***** H. ******! You gotta be F'n kidding me?! Drop and give me 50 funny man!"

 

[Dessa]

Is it weakness? Yeah, sure. Is it the fault of the person with said weakness? No.

I suffer with un-officially-diagnosed depression. It comes and goes, and part of it is a fear of rejection, and a bit of [also un-officially-diagnosed] social anxiety order. I'm actually more afraid of talking to someone who could help me than I am of anything else involving this. I had to quit my last job, because "accidentally" falling in front of a moving car was starting to look more desirable than going in to work. People who knew me, and especially saw me those last few months there, then even saw me a week after quitting, saw a drastic change in me. Because a lot of my depression is triggered by stress, and just being out of that environment did a lot of work for me.

Does that mean it's gone? Nope. Even the other night, I had a nightmare. I'm introducing a new contest for the convention I work for, and getting the info online for the contest means working with someone I'm not entirely comfortable working with. The nightmare involved said person questioning if I had the authorization to put the info up, and if I'd been cleared to hold the contest. In the nightmare, it made me really upset. Even when I woke up, I was afraid to check my e-mail, to see if the e-mail I'd dreamed about was there.

I guess what I'm saying is that yes, depression is a weakness. But unless you have it yourself, you really don't know what it's like. And even if you have it, you only know what it's like for you. I know that, personally, confrontation is something that can trigger it for me. So I try to avoid it (I've lost track of how many times I've been called passive-aggressive for removing myself from a conversation that I can feel is going to start making me upset) if I can, but it's not always possible. There's always outside factors, or things that you wouldn't expect, that can give you an unexpected trigger. Heck, I easily get upset at small things (reading a sad-but-touching story is often enough to get me in tears), so Robin's death set me off (although not as badly as George Donaldson of Celtic Thunder, earlier this year). I've never tried to purposefully hurt or kill myself (only just had thoughts), but I've had 3 nervous breakdowns, and I personally think that the only reason I haven't tried anything is because I'm more afraid of dying than living.

So yes, it's a weakness. But blame the weakness, not the person with it. You wouldn't blame a Deaf person for not hearing a shout, you wouldn't blame a blind person for not seeing a sign, and you wouldn't blame a person in a wheelchair for not walking up stairs. So you can't blame a person with depression, something they can do things to help with, but not "cure", for something they do within the throes of their illness.




On a more positive note, the news pointed out at least a slight silver lining to all of this tonight. In the light of Robin's passing, the number of calls the suicide prevention hotline has gotten has skyrocketed, with many people specifically mentioning Robin's passing as being why they realized they had to call and get help.

 

[Bigdaddy]

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

Of course he "owns" it, but that doesn't mean it is an act of weakness, that is just your judgment and opinion, not a fact. The bold section of your quote shows you don't get it.

I would say this is a well adjusted thought on the subject and not a lame ass excuse for "checking out". anyone who just kills themselves for no reason is a weak individual...

Nobody has ever killed themselves for "no reason". It takes courage to call the dead weak, after all what are they going to do about it. :facepalm
Start a thread about suicide in the OT, no need to stir the pot in another RIP thread.

 

[Zombie_61]

Before I proceed, I'd like to do two things.

First, I'd like to express my most sincere appreciation and thanks to those who responded positively to my previous post. To be honest, this is the first time in my life that I've spoken openly about my experiences with clinical depression. I did what, I think, most people who suffer from it do, and it's probably the worst thing we can do--I hid it from everyone. When I was very young I didn't understand it, so I couldn't explain it to anyone anyway. As I grew older, it just became normal for me to hide it and deal with it on my own; I got really good at putting on what I call my "party face" so that no one would know how I was feeling. And, except for two people, I fooled everyone. No one--not even my parents--knew.

Second, except for my own personal experiences, I know next to nothing about clinical depression. I've never seen a "professional" about it, I've never been officially diagnosed, I've never studied the causes, I don't know anything about "sure fire" cures, and the only thing I know about most medications prescribed for clinical depression (such as anti-depressants) is that they treat the symptoms (i.e., they're "happy pills") but do nothing to treat or eliminate the root cause. So if you're reading this, please keep in mind that anything I write on the subject is based solely on my own experiences, and is nothing more than my opinion with no clinical or professional evidence to support it. In other words, take it with a grain of salt.

...When it comes to suicide it is easy for people to just say that it is the option of a "coward" but you have to look at the entire picture. Depression is pervasive; it isn't something which is present for a few hrs then goes away for wks; it lasts - in Australia it is often referred to as the "black dog" cause it just sits there; waiting in the shadows; looking over EVERY aspect of your life. Suicidal thoughts are common and sadly when it isn't treated; when people feel isolated [note this is a feeling not actuality necessarily] and especially when you have ongoing substance misuse males greater than females tend to follow through. That society tends to avoid talking about these topics - they are difficult topics; even as professionals you don't get used to this despite it being something which happens sadly all too often...

"The Black Dog". I like that, even though I probably shouldn't. But it fits. There are no warning signs; the depression just creeps up on you and grows stronger. In my case it was almost as though all of the negative aspects of my personal psychology had somehow joined forces and were trying to take over by "feeding" me dark thoughts.

Did I ever consider suicide? Yes. Many times. Many times. Why didn't I do it? (You know you were thinking it.) A number of reasons. When I was very young, say, before the age of 10, I didn't know how; I wasn't even sure it was possible. As I grew older I learned about the possibilities, and seriously considered several of them. Ultimately, I realized that my fear of screwing up and living the remainder of my life in a hospital with machines performing all of my bodily functions was stronger than the depression I was feeling. I also knew, no matter how bad I felt, that there were people in my life who cared about me, and I cared about them, so I didn't want to put them through having to deal with that. So those two thoughts got me through the worst of times. That doesn't mean I stopped thinking about it, it only means I never put those thoughts into action. Also, and this is a bit silly, it's the same reason I don't walk out on a bad movie--no matter how bad it is, I want to see how it ends. :lol

By the way, since it was mentioned above, substance abuse never played a part in my depression, either beforehand or as a method of self-medicating. In my late teen years I "dabbled" in weed and drank a few beers here and there, but neither was a regular thing. Even today I rarely drink alcohol, and if I do it's usually one drink and I'm done; I never really acquired a taste for it.

...I just hope that the finality of his actions can maybe help even 1 person to reach out for assistance - it can make a difference; i've seen it make a difference. Hard to achieve that behind closed doors though

If any good can come from Mr. Williams' death, this would be it. As Dessa wrote above, I also read suicide hotlines here in the U.S. have seen a dramatic increase in calls since Monday, and that many of the callers cited Mr. Williams' death as the reason they finally chose to seek help. I hope it's true.

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

I'm not qualified to determine whether or not suicide is an act of weakness, so I can neither agree nor disagree with your perspective on the matter. But I think for some people the desire to end the misery they're experiencing becomes stronger than their fear of death or their will to live, and rather than put their trust into a treatment that may or may not work they decide to take matters into their own hands. Is that a weakness, or a choice? I'll leave that to wiser minds than mine.

...I suffer with un-officially-diagnosed depression. It comes and goes, and part of it is a fear of rejection, and a bit of [also un-officially-diagnosed] social anxiety order. I'm actually more afraid of talking to someone who could help me than I am of anything else involving this. I had to quit my last job, because "accidentally" falling in front of a moving car was starting to look more desirable than going in to work. People who knew me, and especially saw me those last few months there, then even saw me a week after quitting, saw a drastic change in me. Because a lot of my depression is triggered by stress, and just being out of that environment did a lot of work for me.

Does that mean it's gone? Nope. Even the other night, I had a nightmare. I'm introducing a new contest for the convention I work for, and getting the info online for the contest means working with someone I'm not entirely comfortable working with. The nightmare involved said person questioning if I had the authorization to put the info up, and if I'd been cleared to hold the contest. In the nightmare, it made me really upset. Even when I woke up, I was afraid to check my e-mail, to see if the e-mail I'd dreamed about was there...

I commend you for being able to recognize, identify, and do what you can to avoid some of the things that trigger your depression and anxiety disorders. It's my understanding that a lot of people who suffer from clinical depression and/or anxiety disorders don't (or can't) take the time to do that.

...I guess what I'm saying is that yes, depression is a weakness. But unless you have it yourself, you really don't know what it's like. And even if you have it, you only know what it's like for you...

Spot on. A very good friend of ours is one of the two people I've previously spoken with about my bouts of depression (the other being my wife), and that was only because she also suffers from clinical depression and saw right through my "party face" because she did the same thing and recognized my pretense. Her experiences were very similar to mine, and talking about them allowed us to bond and to help because we understood what each other was going through.

In fact, she helped me a great deal. She had sought treatment for her depression long before I had, and she taught me a few mental "tricks" to help me stave off the depression when I felt it coming on. The first and foremost of which was to recognize and acknowledge the depression as soon as I felt it coming on, to focus my thoughts on all of the "positives" in my life, and not allow the depression to take over. I equate it to fighting a fire--if you don't put it out immediately, it will spread and cause untold damage. But if you put it out immediately, you'll contain the damage to a small area. It took me several years and a good deal of support to "master" this, but it worked for me and I haven't experienced a severe bout of depression in a long time.

To be clear--and I can't stress this enough--this technique worked for me. I am not recommending it as a method of treatment for anyone else suffering from chronic depression.

... So yes, it's a weakness. But blame the weakness, not the person with it. You wouldn't blame a Deaf person for not hearing a shout, you wouldn't blame a blind person for not seeing a sign, and you wouldn't blame a person in a wheelchair for not walking up stairs. So you can't blame a person with depression, something they can do things to help with, but not "cure", for something they do within the throes of their illness...

Well, that's the thing. People can usually determine that a person is blind because of their red-tipped cane or their service animal. And it's generally assumed that a person in a wheelchair has mobility issues. But clinical depression often has no such outward signs; hell, I hid mine successfully for the first 34 years of my life, and I'm sure I'm not the only person to have done so. And when it comes to disorders that affect the mind, there seems to be a stigma attached to them that don't get attached to physical disorders. Mental disorders make people uncomfortable because they don't understand them unless they have some form of personal experience with them. I hate to use a cheesy buzzword, but public "awareness" :rolleyes needs to be raised with regards to clinical depression. People need to understand that it can be diagnosed and treated just like any other medical condition. Granted, current treatments aren't always successful, unfortunately, or this thread wouldn't exist. But, hopefully, Mr. Williams' well-publicized death will cause the right people to realize it's time to take action.

 

[NeoRutty]

Don't know if this has been posted or not, but one of the best articles/posts I ever read on dealing with depression was by a great blogger, Allie Brosh, on her site "Hyperbole and a Half".

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

A Highly reccomended read... informative, and, in a strange way, entertaining.

Allie, at the height of her sites popularity, dissapeared for a bit... when she came back she wrote that article... good read.

 

[Rylo]

Talk about making one's ignorance audible. Case in point:

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

Suicide stems from a complete breakdown of one's coping mechanisms. You'd hardly suggest that people who dove from the windows of the world trade center were cowards. They were faced with two options. Jumping or burning alive. The act of jumping was more manageable than the thought of burning...it was their only way out.

Now, you may not be able to comprehend how one can live with similar fears as they move about day to day (and you should thank god you don't) but the challenges many face just to scratch through another day are every bit as daunting; dare I say sinister to them as the scenario above.

I've lost close friends to suicide and I can assure you, they were all brave men. They simply had a complete breakdown and an inability to cope anymore. They battled demons their entire adult lives until they couldn't cope anymore.

Besides, who ever said anything about excusing death. This thread is to mourn one's death. The why's, hows, etc. are completely inconsequential.

To label the act itself as anything less than tragic is so pathetically low rent it makes my skin crawl.

 

[Dr Tumbo]

It's an act of weakness. Period. I don't condemn the guy for what he did. I get why some people check out. I do. But it's weakness. I've seen it up close, too. And it was weakness then, as well. I don't excuse it away. We're all responsible for our lives and our choices. He's responsible for his. I love the guy's work and what he gave the world. Doesn't diminish the person he was. But, there's no excusing his death away. He owns it.

Ever diagnosed someone w/ depression? Had a patient commit suicide? Know anyone who has committed suicide? Talked about depression w/ someone who is so unwell they require ECT? Made decisions regarding changing medications where they aren't working; restarted someone on medications when they have a relapse of this illness? Talked to the family about what to expect w/ an admission or post discharge? Been to symposia about suicide or talked w/ people who sub-specialise in Depression; or look after older adults? Understood the difference between a primary depressive disorder and personality traits or personality disorders? Looked into the medical research on the topic?

Easy to sit in a glass house and throw stones and condemn. Yeh it is difficult for all left behind; it isn't the best way to manage problems - no one would deny that; BUT there are so many factors at play here that really all you are showing is a lack of compassion and a lack of any insight into what Robin was experiencing

 

[YenChih Lin]

My turn to come out…

yeah, I had depression. I don't go around and advertise it. Since some here don't understand, seem to care or lack of compassion, I come out, since Robin meant so much to me.

Some call it the black dogs. What I experienced was more like walking from a sunny meadow with a clear path into a real deep dark foggy forest like in the clicheéd horror movies, but the real terror is, there are no creatures, no gnarled branches that triggers your imagination, just a dense dark forest with a dense fog, you can't see more than your tip of the nose and the path below your feet that was clearly visible is starting to faint. Just when you entered a few meters into it, you wonder how you got in, then it's too late, you turn around and there's not a slightest clue from where you came from or where it is going ahead. You got stuck. There's no light, no path, it's ***king foggy, it gets cold around you and everything looks bleak. Muted colors, no hope to find a way out of the dark forest, because you walk and walk and walk and all you see are tall dark trees next to each other and fog. You're figurative blind for months (or years). And you can't run out of fear to tip over or bump into something. So you walk, slowly. Step by step. You yell for someone, but you're on your own (so you think).
You start thinking, "maybe it's better to sit here and wait" - only to find yourself stuck again and again in the same train of thoughts: Where did my life go so wrong? Why am I so alone? Nothing seems to make a difference… Every day's the same… I am stuck in this s***ty life, what am I doing here?

The paradox is, your friends and family are walking next to you and you don't see them. In one bright moment that may come, the forest vanishes and you can decide rationally and get help.

Tuesday hit me hard, when I got the news of Robin's death and the forest was back there, but it was small. I'll passed it and I feel ok now.

I thought a couple of days, if it's not a bad idea to make the 811 "Robin Williams Awareness Day" gobally. What do you think?

 

[.:MirrorminD:.]

Saw this on Reddit

 

[joberg]

Humans are the only animals to know that they are finite product in this world. With that terrible knowledge and if knowing that, no matter what we do/feel/experience, at the end it does not matter, our species would've disappear a long time ago.
So, your "Mind Program" is geared for Hope. It's all part of our survival. Once that Hope is gone; you're gone. It's a constant burning fire, it's the power that makes us live.
Depression is removing that feeling. Clinical experiments have been done on patients with severe depression, using electrical impulses into known parts of their brains (actually, it's an implant with a small battery and very small electric wires). After the impulse starts, all of the patients had this type of response: it's like a grey veil has lifted...I can see colours and light...I have plans for tomorrow because I can "see" a tomorrow.

 

[Goonie]

CNN is reporting that Robin was struggling with early signs of Parkinson's:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/showbiz/robin-williams-parkinsons-disease/index.html

 

[EmmaInCandyland]

 

[Michael Bergeron]

For someone fighting as many battles as he seemed to be I can certainly see how that additional tonne of bricks could be a tipping point.

 

[gizmo]

Wow poor guy.

 

[Zombie_61]

Don't know if this has been posted or not, but one of the best articles/posts I ever read on dealing with depression was by a great blogger, Allie Brosh, on her site "Hyperbole and a Half".

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

A Highly reccomended read... informative, and, in a strange way, entertaining.

Allie, at the height of her sites popularity, dissapeared for a bit... when she came back she wrote that article... good read.

Humans are the only animals to know that they are finite product in this world. With that terrible knowledge and if knowing that, no matter what we do/feel/experience, at the end it does not matter, our species would've disappear a long time ago.
So, your "Mind Program" is geared for Hope. It's all part of our survival. Once that Hope is gone; you're gone. It's a constant burning fire, it's the power that makes us live.
Depression is removing that feeling. Clinical experiments have been done on patients with severe depression, using electrical impulses into known parts of their brains (actually, it's an implant with a small battery and very small electric wires). After the impulse starts, all of the patients had this type of response: it's like a grey veil has lifted...I can see colours and light...I have plans for tomorrow because I can "see" a tomorrow.

I've joined these two wonderful posts because they both touch on an aspect of clinical depression that I neglected to mention in my previous posts, that being the disconnect from the emotions that bring you pleasure. Doctors often refer to one of the the causes of clinical depression as a dysfunction in the human body's Dopamine delivery/receptor function, also referred to as a "chemical imbalance". In the human brain, Dopamine acts as a neurotransmitter, and levels are generally increased during reward-motivated behavior, blah blah blah. In simple terms, more Dopamine equals more pleasure. Eat your favorite food, watch your favorite movie, hug the person you love, whatever, and the Dopamine fire hoses in your brain start spewing the stuff out, which makes you feel better and, usually, happier. But with clinical depression, that doesn't happen--the fire hoses have been removed, the tap has been turned off, and there's nothing telling your brain that you're supposed to feel pleasure, or enjoyment, or happiness of any kind. In fact, you feel nothing. Well, almost nothing. The negative feelings are often still there--overwhelming sadness, despair, loneliness, apathy, etc.--so you latch onto those just to feel something. But, of course, that's the exact opposite of feeling good...about anything. And if you're not getting any joy out of life, what's the point of living it?

Again, these are my experiences, but as I'm learning more about clinical depression I'm finding they're fairly common amongst those who suffer from it.

Also, and I find this interesting given the most recent news about Williams, there is a link between dysfunction of the Dopamine system and Parkinson's Disease. The more we learn, and the more dots we connect, the clearer things become.

My turn to come out…

yeah, I had depression. I don't go around and advertise it. Since some here don't understand, seem to care or lack of compassion, I come out, since Robin meant so much to me...

Thank you for doing so. I'm still not entirely sure why I chose to "come out" about my experiences with clinical depression, other than to say I felt compelled to for whatever reason.

I personally think the lack of understanding can lead to the seeming lack of compassion--how can a person feel compassionate about something they don't understand? I mean, people can feel compassionate about the situation--most of us (maybe all of us) have lost someone close to us, so they understand what that's like--but unless they or someone close to them suffers from clinical depression it's out of their realm of personal experience. In a way, and I'm not equating the two, it's like knowing someone who lives with an addict (regardless of their "poison of choice"). Anyone can understand that a situation like that can be unpleasant, but unless they've lived with an addict themselves they probably won't truly understand just how unpleasant that can be. And, yes, in my family there was at least one addict and a number of alcoholics, so I do know first-hand what that's like.

...Some call it the black dogs. What I experienced was more like walking from a sunny meadow with a clear path into a real deep dark foggy forest like in the clicheéd horror movies, but the real terror is, there are no creatures, no gnarled branches that triggers your imagination, just a dense dark forest with a dense fog, you can't see more than your tip of the nose and the path below your feet that was clearly visible is starting to faint. Just when you entered a few meters into it, you wonder how you got in, then it's too late, you turn around and there's not a slightest clue from where you came from or where it is going ahead. You got stuck. There's no light, no path, it's ***king foggy, it gets cold around you and everything looks bleak. Muted colors, no hope to find a way out of the dark forest, because you walk and walk and walk and all you see are tall dark trees next to each other and fog. You're figurative blind for months (or years). And you can't run out of fear to tip over or bump into something. So you walk, slowly. Step by step. You yell for someone, but you're on your own (so you think).
You start thinking, "maybe it's better to sit here and wait" - only to find yourself stuck again and again in the same train of thoughts: Where did my life go so wrong? Why am I so alone? Nothing seems to make a difference… Every day's the same… I am stuck in this s***ty life, what am I doing here?

The paradox is, your friends and family are walking next to you and you don't see them. In one bright moment that may come, the forest vanishes and you can decide rationally and get help.

Tuesday hit me hard, when I got the news of Robin's death and the forest was back there, but it was small. I'll passed it and I feel ok now...

We call this "the cave". We'd recognize the signs--the depressed mood or the "party face"--and say something like, "Oh, are you in your cave today?" It was just our way of letting each other know that we knew and understood what the other person was going through, and it was our way of breaking the ice just in case either of us felt like talking it out. And it helped, knowing that we both understood what that "cave" meant and having that kind of support.

...I thought a couple of days, if it's not a bad idea to make the 811 "Robin Williams Awareness Day" gobally. What do you think?

That's not a bad idea, as long as people understand that it's more than just taking the time to remember a talented comedian and actor. That goes hand-in-hand with raising the public's awareness of clinical depression, which is something that needs to be done if society at large is going to get serious about speaking openly about it, researching it, and finding better ways to treat or (hopefully) cure it.