Question About Washes

Gimpdiggity

Gimpdiggity

Master Member
Hi everyone.

I'm looking for some help with washes. I've been reading a lot and it seems like there is so much conflicting information, so I figured I'd turn to my fellow RPFers to get some quality information.

Some of you may have seen my Discovery One model I'm working on. It's nearing completion, with only a few things other than details to work on. When I get those done I would like to do some dark washing of a few of the parts to give them some more depth.

The he model is painted with Tamiya acrylic paints, mostly that have been airbrushed on.

From what hat I have read I will need to use a wash that is NOT acrylic based...but I've also read that an acrylic based wash will work just fine provided the paint is completely cured (like a week after painting or so).

I would prefer to buy something ready made, but I'm not entirely opposed to making something. I was looking at the MIG washes, but I'm not sure if they will work.

Oh, also, is it necessary for me to clear coat the model before using the wash?

I do have some extra parts laying around that I can experiment on...I'm just hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!
 
A clear coat is a fail safe and probably a good idea. If you seal you finished paint system with a clear coat, then if you wash goes wrong you can in theory wipe it back and start again.

The big problem is what your finish coat is. If you use enamel as a finish coat and then enamel clear coat you can use acrylic (water base NOT acrylic lacquer) wash and it can be wiped back when dry.

As an example, I always paint using acrylic lacquer, then water based acrylic wash. If I don't like it, I 'can' wipe it back using metho and it works, but consistent heavy wiping can affect the top coat,

I don't use enamels because of the drying time, but enamel is way more stable with a water based over wash, if you have to wipe back the acrylic.
 
For weathering and dirt, I use chalk pastels powdered and mixed with water as I can add and subtract as much as I like and work them until I'm happy, using a damp cotton swab to lift any excess. You can also dust them on dry, too. For panel lines, I dilute them right down and use a fine brush and capillary action. After, you fix with some clear.

I found a video that pretty much covers the technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_zcVbmSD4
 
I use Hycote car dull coat lacquer,....cellulose based,....then use turps & oils......if you use oils,...you can work & work with it,....I wouldn't use ay thing else,...even on the Bandai stuff

J
 
I personally would not seal it with any type of varnish or lacquer, it is a fail safe yes but will not allow the wash to do its job effectively.

I would suggest simply thinning acyrlics and start VERY light until you build confidence. Also when I say thin the acyrlics I mean pretty much coloured water very very thin, work in small areas. Build up layers, have plenty of clean water and blue roll to hand.
 
The models on 2001 were "washed" with a mainly dark grey/black wash, either acrylic/water based. After that general wash, take a brush with graphite and brush the edges of the details/greeblies with a North/South and East/West motion (to get all of the angles) so as to make all of those details pop right out. Have fun!
 
OK you didn't realize it but you've asked a trick question...

EVERYBODY does their weathering and painting differently. so asking a question like this will get you dozens of answers.

My Opinion - don't buy a pre-made wash. they are super easy to make yourself and you can control the "tint" if that makes sense. Super thinned (pick a color) usually dark gray (I've found that straight black while tempting is usually too harsh) is what a wash is.. I've used acrylic on acrylic and oil on acrylic, and acrylic on enamel... it all works you just need to find what "you" like. one constant... and you mentioned it ... the base coat( s ) Need to be cured... although I know some painters that really don't follow that either and come out with great stuff. weathering is more art then science. I strongly suggest you do what I did when learning to "weather" grab some old plastic whatever (I was fond of 2 liter bottles) glues some greeblies on , some "hull plating" and practice on something that is is a throw away. try different paints , different thinners and techniques. find the ones that "work" for you.

And after doing this for a LONG time I found out that other good painters will teach you a new trick... last summer at Jerseyfest Mike Salzo taught me a new one with a wash that we just kind of slathered on and blew around with just air from the airbrush... totally took that one and put that in my bag of tricks. in case you're interested the result is a kind of very subtle tone variation on the base caot that at casual look "looks" all the same color - but really isn't. Its a great effect for removing that "toy" look to something.

I guess the point to this rambling post is that you basically can't do it "wrong" but you can get better at whatever techniques you use through practice. There is no real shortcut to getting good at it... I've tried them all before just realizing that all this "trial and error" was my schooling :)

Jedi Dade
 
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Keep in mind that a lot of times, to get a wash to look right, you need clear coat of gloss if the base is flat. Depends on the look you want, but it can make a difference. Also, especially if you're a little uncomfortable with washes, try using watercolors--those really cheap things for kids where they add a little water to the hard, dry solid. You most likely used them in elementary school. There really isn't an agent there besides color particles and the water you add. Any problems and it comes off very easily with water. And you can use the brush to mix around colors to get different shades and exactly what you want. I use this method a lot, especially on complicated paint jobs or builds that have taken so long I really can't even remember which paints--what brands, types, etc.--were used. Keep in mind, though, as there is no bonding agent, you kinda need to add a clear coat after to seal it up--and anything you do after that involves any kind of liquid anything will have a huge impact on the wash. Doing decals after is an obvious example. Another option is the stuff from "The Detailer." I think that stuff has the same properties as water colors but designed for modelers.
Mike Todd
 
One thing I've learned through trial and error is that the look of the wash depends greatly on whether the base coat is flat or gloss. On a flat base, the wash tends to uniformly dirty up the base coat while on gloss the wash pulls into the details, making more of a shadow effect around detail pieces. On a flat base, the wash sometimes will also do what I call "coffee staining" where the wash dries with dark edges similar to a coffee cup stain on a table. When I use wash on a flat surface coat it's usually when I really want to dirty down the entire model. I don't do it often.

So my process is to prime the model with an acrylic primer, usually Tamiya Fine Surface primer. I then paint with Tamiya acrylics and top coat with an acrylic gloss coat (either rattle can or from an airbrush). I usually use oils for washes thinned with paint thinner. Once that's dry, I'll add pastel chalk weathering before sealing it all up with a final flat coat. Usually works for me, but I admit painting is my Achilles heel.
 
Thanks for the input everyone.

From reading this it is apparent that there are as many methods of using wash as there are colors in the universe. It also has slightly confirmed my fear that in order to do it well I may have to gloss, wash, then matte the model...which is more than I was wanting to do...due to my laziness, of course.

I like the the look of the matte finish now, so I'd have to address that.

modelcitizen said:
if you got print lines over the whole thing, washes will make them even more obvious.
Click to expand...

To address this in particular, my plan of attack was to use the wash ONLY on the flat tops of the cargo pods, and the flat tops and sides of the drive unit. These pieces show very few print lines due to the nature of their design.

1C87640F-F04F-4A34-90B9-0ADD0A1627AF_zpsuvvcxrdg.jpg


For example, on the portion of that piece that has the greeblies. The lines shouldn't show too much because they aren't very apparent due to the design.

That said, I do have several pieces to experiment on, and if it doesn't look good due to the process of 3D printing, I will abandon the idea of the wash.
 
Jaitea said:
I use Hycote car dull coat lacquer,....cellulose based,....then use turps & oils......if you use oils,...you can work & work with it,....I wouldn't use ay thing else,...even on the Bandai stuff

J
Click to expand...
Careful with oils specilly with bandai or revel snap tites

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 
ggriffaw said:
What happens with oils on snap tites?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It has to do with chemical attack of the softer plastic. You really don't know if it will be a problem unless you try it, or a friend tries it.

Solutions: Put down a base or primer paint coat. Seal with a varnish like pledge Future floor wax. Use am acrylic or water based wash.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
It depends on what kind of look you want,
I prefer to wash over a flat paint. Glossy surfaces don't have any tooth for the wash to stick to, so it ends up running off or only collecting around joints. That looks good to simulate grease oozing out of joints. But to get a "dirty" surface, you'll want the wash to create a variated haze over the surface. In which case, a flat paint works well.
 
Paints are made of pigments, binders and solvents. 'Acrylic' describes the binder, which is some form of plastic. You need to be concerned with the solvent, and whether or not it will attack your existing paint. Most people choose to use a wash with a dissimilar solvent for that reason. Protecting the underlying paint with a durable clearcoat will also work. That is why you are hearing about so many methods: they all work, for one reason or another. Tamiya paints are lacquer or alcohol based (depending on if you use spray or bottles). The liberal use of lacquer may eat at them (or even your model). Once an acrylic paint fully cures (the polymerization process can take a week or more), it is often pretty tough, but water based washes are normally preferred for working over them.
 
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Hey guys, good conversation here....

I was wondering the same thing. I'm not new to painting in general but new to painting models. I'm currently (as we speak) weathering my Hasbro X-Wing mod. I wish I had read Hunk a Junk's comment about the "coffee stain" issue when washing flat acrylic washes on flat acrylic paint because that was a perfect description. I didn't seal mine first, so I was constantly fighting the wash to achieve the desired effect. Sometimes I would paint it on, sometimes smudge with my finger, and sometimes actually cover an area with the wash.

I will be posting more updates tonight and it will show the wash technique I "developed" :lol combined with the hand painted details if you're interested. Feel free to check it out and give me your honest opinion ! No participation awards please, I'll never learn ! Lol

You can see it here: http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=250744&page=10
 
I think for people with limited paint experience non compatible systems work best.

Enamel base with acrylic water base wash.

Acrylic lacquer base with acrylic water base wash

Ultimately there are no rules....... but you break them at your peril[emoji12]


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