Pyro X-Wing build with scratched canopy...

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by Colin Droidmilk, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    I went for a scratch built canopy as I wanted another option to the kit part. I wanted a narrower front to it. So this here canopy of mine is 2mm narrower at the front of the pane. I've only done the front part so far. It's probably a bit wide at the back, though the vertical struts ARE in line with the fuse wall planes so I dunno what I could do about that... Might make another one and see how that comes out.
     
    darth_myeek likes this.
  2. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Bout bloody time..... He he...
     
  3. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    What d' y'mean? It's quick work that! A year for half a canopy, what's up with that? heh heh...
     
  4. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Stop with dem negative waves man. It's a mother beautiful canopy man.
     
  5. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Thanks! But will I get the rear half right?

    Tune in again next November, lol!
     
  6. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Its a couple of canopy bars.....but its the way those bars are crafted in, very nice work, love the front on pics.

    lee
     
  7. kh39

    kh39 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,I'm bulding a pyro kit too.I'm happy to see the other model's build.
    Your canopy looks great!:thumbsup
    Im my oppinion,the canopy that comes with the kit is a little bit too big to the fuselage.So, I cut the frames and trimmed them.
     
  8. joewhite

    joewhite Sr Member

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    Double post...
     
  9. joewhite

    joewhite Sr Member

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    Sweet! I'll be ScrapBook'ing this thread. I was looking for an extra canopy but no luck. I'm gonna have to build a canopy for my pyro body, as well. The more pics the better, Colin, it's looking good!

    Joe
     
  10. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Glad you guys like it. Thanks for the comments.

    Yeah, I had a solid fuselage, which has more shrinkage than the canopy, so the two never looked right together. Also I wanted this kit to improve on the V3 canopy. Having a production-lineage fuselage, an opportunity was presented to get the best canopy yet done on an X-wing replica, for with these canopies 'tis the fuselage that makes the canopy' since the canopy geometry is absolutely dictated by the fuse geometry.

    I've never scratch-built anything before so this was a bit of an adventure for me ( it may be only a coupla bars, Ralphee, but this was still difficult stuff for me, lol!). I basically drew round the kit canopy sides onto thin (0.5 mm, I think) styrene, cut them out, then held them at the desired angle in the fuse with lumps of blu tac. Then I took measurements of the gap between them in order to derive the shape for the upper plane. I cut out the upper plane from styrene, cut out the window pane too, then tacked the whole lot in situ again with blu tac. Then I applied superglue where I could. The substance of the bars and the other walls of each bar I made with miliput. Probably I should have put some thin brass rod in there, but like a * I didn't once think of that!

    It's not perfect; the port vertical strut slopes forward even more than the kit part. This is caused by the fuse asymmetry of course, but is more exacerbated because I made the canopy top perfectly perpendicular to the fuse instead of slightly wonky. I can correct this by filing away at the forward-leaning strut, though of course its shape will be compromised. Interestingly this seems to be what they did with that strut on the Red 5 canopy. That strut is made from two very unparallel lines indeed!

    Joe, here are a couple more pics. Y'see in the first one it looks slightly too tapered - too wide at the back, maybe. Anyway, I like it very much on the whole. I definitely prefer it to the V3 canopy, the EFX and what I was getting with the kit part...
     
  11. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Now get to the back end already lol, be great to see where that goes, its such a hard area to get right on the X for sure, hence, nobody ever has!

    lee
     
  12. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    'Nobody ever has'? Ulp... I'll try...
     
  13. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Hah, come on, you made a heck of a job on that V3 of yours, seriously, id go MAD even attempting this.....and, rest in the knowledge, you cant possibly go as far wrong as Finemolds did, now thats a ridiculous canopy.

    lee
     
  14. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Cheers! You know, I've been so encouraged by the input from you guys that I've spent the day working on the rear part. And I think it'll work out! The key to the thing is the blu tac. You cut out your first attempt at a plane, it's all wrong but you roughly hold it in with the blu tac, and then by eye you can project onto it corrected horizontals etc, which you then incorporate into the 2nd attempt, 3rd attempt till you've nailed it. Without the blu tac to hold stuff at those weird angles, you'd have to work out the planar geometry on a flaming computer or something, like Jamie Shourt had to on the blockade runner. He had to do all this * maths, lol... sod that!

    Pics to follow...right now I'm being booted off the pc by the GF...
     
  15. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    OK, here's the day's work on the rear part...

    (Why is there a V3 droid in there? Because I've bloody lost the pyro one! It must be around here somewhere, unless the cat's knocked it under something... Sheezis...)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  16. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    That looks great man. Much better than the original. I never thought I'd here myself say that but with the shrinkage on the body with these the original makes this bird look more like a hasbro.
     
  17. joewhite

    joewhite Sr Member

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    Simon, are you saying the Pyro looks like the Hasbro? Or because of the shrunken canopy?

    Colin, I like your progress. I'll be honest....I haven't paid this area much attention. I'm still working on my scratch hollow wings. I did do some quick comparisons between the V3 and the filming model but other than that, I'm learning off of yours and Beaz's builds.

    If I get some more free time this week, I might try making a practice canopy based on yours.

    Joe
     
  18. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Nah Joe , just the fact that the hull shrunk but the canopy didn't. So technically the canopy is oversized for this hull. Not sure which pic best illustrates this. Certain angles make it look way to big.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  19. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Ta, chaps! Yeah, Simon, the moment I put the kit canopy on there - the first thing I did when unpacking the kit - I felt a bit let down (and remained so even after correcting the warp and allowing for trimming etc). I thought... 'wha...?' Your first pic shows the problem off best (looks better in the 2nd pic - nice work btw!). I didn't know about the shrinkage issue at that point so I just could not figure that canopy out AT ALL. After all, I had been hoping for THIS - see pics below. And then I figured, look this is an ILM hull, therefore all the groundwork for a great canopy is probably built into it. It should be possible to construct a more ILM faithful canopy up from that. Now that I'm getting somewhere with that, I'm finally totally over the moon with the kit. There's something about the way this new canopy runs into the fuse that, well, really matches up to ILM in ways I'm not seeing in the other replicas. And again, that's not down to my work but to the fact of the ILM hull.

    There's stuff I need to sort out, though. It all looks pretty cool from a distance but close-up there are niggles at the mo. The middles of the lower side bars are not quite flush with the fuse wall, they're slightly recessed, because the fuse wall is bowed while the styrene is straight. So the lower bars will need kind of forcing out somehow to follow the bowed fuse wall line (This is why I haven't reinforced them with miliput yet). But I'll think of something.

    The canopy on this model below is very thin-looking. This is the ideal toward which I strive. I likes thin x canopies, me. On my rear part ( the canopy, I mean - not my *) I've started with small windows and then I'll slowly open them out - to avoid overcooking them.
     
  20. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    It's almost November....... (taps fingers).
     
  21. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Good call Simon :lol Come to think of it, Steve, wheres ya Y wing mate :lol?

    Lee
     
  22. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Think I read somethin about the "New Nose".....??? Care to share Steve...?
     
  23. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Heh just saw your pm, Simon. Will update asap! Done sod-all on the cockpit - due to Y distraction - but yeah I've hacked the nose off and will be sticking Frank's other nose on and extending the fuse. The other nose will deffo give more of the Roman hooked effect. But I couldn't really tell if that other nose was any good until I'd cut the other one off and actually held it in place.

    Lee, re the Y, I've done the engines, correcting the warp weirdness, and stuck your lovely Tees on. Will post pics in that Y thread - also asap!
     
  24. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Okay here's some pics of what I have in mind for the nose.
     
  25. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Re: Pyro X-Wing build with scratched canopy...now with nose mod!

    Simon, where are ya? Got something for ya, my san...

    Using white blu-tac I've done a try-out for the nose positioning. This new nose here is placed a whole cm further forward, a tad further than it can take probably, so I'll move it back a mm or so, then definitely extend it backwards so the nose butt makes the right pattern again with the fuse and fuse chips etc. The nose piece is too short anyway, I reckon, and the slope starts too abruptly, so extending it back to the fuse should work out (if my sculpting skills are up to it). I arrived at this through much studying of the first photo below.
     
  26. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Sweet..... Looks much better Steve. I've got a solid fuse (different casting) which has no twist in the fuse and the same "original nose" as you've just attached. It has shrunk like the Cerney one you have but proportionally . I'll post some pix. It may help a little but that's a major improvement you got there mate. Yea... It's Pyro time!
     
  27. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Pyro time it is!

    Glad you like. Looking forward to your pix...
     
  28. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Done some more work on this nosejob. Epoxied a supporting brass pole into the front of the fuse. Currently pratting about with styrene shims and an xacto in the hole I drilled in the nose-cone. This is because the hole in the nose isn't quite in the right place. And this is because both holes were just guessed, done by eye. No other way to do it really. Anyway, I'm getting there, I think. Pics soon!
     
  29. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Any chance you could cast that canopy?
     
  30. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Flattered you'd like one! Trouble is, casting is beyond my ken, and also this is a pretty fragile object. But it wasn't that hard to make. Use the kit canopy as a stencil. Begin by making the front 3 window frames. Draw round the kit canopy for each of the frames, tracing the shapes out onto 1mm styrene. For the top window frame, once you've drawn round it, just narrow the front by 2mm - this is the key step in improving the look. These 3 shapes are of course the outer planes of the canopy. Then, shoving blu-tac on the inner surfaces to hold them together, fit the front 3 frames together, sit 'em in the fuse, and see where you are. If any of the panes are too big or too small or the wrong shape, refine them by making second versions, making careful note of how the shapes need adjusting. When satisfied, cut out the holes for the windows and fill in the bodies of the frames with putty, using ref pics to take careful note of frame thickness. Repeat all this for the rear section, though this is a lot harder, and there are problems here I've yet to solve... - mainly because there are a lot of devilish, curved surfaces on the fuse here. Oh, and before you do any of this, beware the fact that my scratched canopy is not always flush with the fuse walls - it sits inside them at a few points due to the fact that the styrene is straight and the fuse walls have a slight bow, though it doesn't show up too much unless you've really got your nose up to the thing, and for me, it's a price worth paying for the better overall look. Hope this helps!
     
  31. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Some pics, then. Check out the mess inside the nosecone, ha ha! But that ungodliness is what gets the nose into line - just. It ain't perfect but is about the best possible given the fact that the nose and fuselage here are 2 genetically separate beasts. Guess it's a miracle the match is this good given the shrinkage, warp and weirdness of the fuse. Also, note the backwards extension of the nosecone, roughed out here in white blu-tac. The extension of the whole model here is about 7mm. That might change as I continue fooling about with it.
     

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  32. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Looking good Steve... It's a bloody nightmare to get right. Here's that other fuse with the same nose cast in.

    [​IMG]
     
  33. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Nightmare is right - it's why I haven't been able to face doing it for the last 6 months. Thanks for the pic. Interesting.

    Just epoxied the nose into place. The die is cast. There's no going back now. Hope the hell no nasty surprises await as I sculpt...
     
  34. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Great - my face has puffed up into an itching inflamed mass after blocking in the nose sculpt with putty. My eyes and lips are now a completely different shape. And that was with wearing a mask. Why do we put put ourselves through this stuff, eh? Lol...
     
  35. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Pix or it didn't happen!
     
  36. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Oh yes, pics, to have a man wounded during a bout, is something we need to see Steve!

    lee
     
  37. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Lol... here y'go. Cleared up a lot now, though. Still, eyes are a bit puffy and that. Weird, though - never had problems with miliput at all until last year.

    Plus a pic of the model. Still sanding it down here...
     

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  38. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Miliput, its sooo not the same stuff these days mate, i find it awful to use in its current recipe, Magisculp is what i use for those jobs. Eye does look puffy mate, go easy on that stuff id say. X wing looks so nice, i have to see this one done.......a lot of thought and head scratching has gone into her thus far, it begs to be painted sometime!

    lee
     
  39. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Yeah, reckon you're right. They also changed the recipe of the epoxy brand I use. It now dries way too fast and has a wonderful new odour - a sort of delicate blend of vomit and rotting meat.

    Thanks for the kind words there. It's been a bit dicey getting some of the aspects of this nose to work out, though. Like the underside lip where nose meets fuse. That's still too thick, and to get it thin enough (I want the thin lip of the old nose, ha ha ha!) will probably mean eating into the resin part of the nose. Not too happy about that. Knew there'd be some problem with this - it's inherent in moving the nose forward - but it's a bit worse than I was hoping. I also suspected the niche on the upper surface would bite me in the *, but looking again at the ref, it seems it might've been a bit too short anyway, so extending it back - as I have to - won't look as weird as I thought, and might even be a bit more accurate. I'll try and post some more pics later...
     
  40. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Ok, some more pics. Pinned a wing on provisionally, and tried a fit of the cockpit interior. This is sitting too high and will need something shaved off the bottom. If I use it, that is...(Simon, you know what I'm talkin' 'bout, man. Heh heh..) Sanded a ton off the nose. May sand more off the nose rear to shorten the nosecone a tad.Sorry about the blurry pics, but this is due to standing the other side of the room and using the zoom - only way to show the over-all shape without wide-angle distortion.
    May 2013 030ed.jpg May 2013 029ed.jpg May 2013 028ed.jpg May 2013 027ed.jpg May 2013 031ed.jpg .
     
  41. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Hmmmmm... tacked on the other upper wing and then instead of joy when I dropped on the 2nd Saturn can I experienced... bugness. Can looked too big. Sure enough, it's 2mm wider than the first one. This 2nd one is the one with the big strip down it (apparently not used on the ILM pyros). Both these pieces are 2mm bigger than the other two stripless ones. The big ones are the same size as the ones on my V3, but the small ones look best on this smaller solid pyro casting. Dunno what to do about this. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the current Airfix originals? Or maybe I can order from Frank two more small ones... Anyone else encountered this? Big ones are 43mm, small ones are 41mm (measured not across their widest point but across the frontmost rim).
     
  42. TheRealMcFly

    TheRealMcFly Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    On the original Pyros they only made one plain style can assembly to be duplicated in resin. In the studio photos the other style can with the strip it is always a kit part.

    What I am getting at is that only the plain cans in these kits have pedigree back to the Pyro models. And they definitely do, the added panels on top match exactly. The other two are actually not even Airfix parts but from the monogram Saturn V instead. I would assume the monogram parts have shrunk less than the original Pyro can.
     
  43. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Aha! Thanks. I'm wondering what others have done to remedy this...
     
  44. TheRealMcFly

    TheRealMcFly Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You're the first to run into this... personally, I am not this far along with my own Pyro X wing.

    I also think there is some room to modify the wing box itself to accommodate original kit parts.

    My own plan was to build a red leader and use original kit parts for the two top cans, just like the original pyro. It's possible that the monogram additions were added by John Eaves to enhance the Pyro he restored.
     
  45. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Sounds like a cool plan.

    I've abandoned my scratchbuilt canopy plan. Heh, it'll be a half-scratchbuild. For why? Because I'd be a dang fool to kill myself building that nightmare rear section when I can..... just use the kit part! I assumed it wouldn't fit with my scratched front. But it's not far off at all. I think I can smoke-n-mirrors the 2 parts together.

    Looking again at the cans issue, well... the bigger can seems to sit in there now. Might be livable with. Certainly doesn't look too bad in the pics:
     

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  46. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Looking good there Steve. Nice work.
     
  47. Colin Droidmilk

    Colin Droidmilk Sr Member

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    Thanks, Simon!
     

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