Pred Cloaking CG?

[FZ1]

My advice would be to avoid rotoscoping if at all possible. Its so damn time consuming!!! Although, that may be your only option without access to a greenscreen.

WOW! I actually feel like I'm contributing to the forum! I'm not much on sculpting or casting...but I do know editing! I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have. I certainly do not consider myself an expert...but will gladly help if I can.

 

[scottyw]

Honestly if you use After effects CS5 rotoscoping isn't half as laborious as it used to be but if you have an earlier version it's quite a task. I'll definitely try and get an example made this weekend and uploaded for you.

 

[Lflank]

I wouldn't go as far as to say it was simple but i think the easiest way to do this is by filming yourself making the movements and then use the rotobrush tool in aftereffects cs5 to cut yourself out of the clip and use yourself as a displacement map. Lets say for example: i film myself walking around my garden with the video camera on a tripod, when i've finished the movements i want i let the camera keep rolling filming the same scene but without me in it. Now in adobe after effects cs5 i rotobrush around myself and save that as a displacement map, i then take the footage of the empty garden and apply the displacement map of me moving onto it. I could probably explain it a little better but i'm way tired. Maybe i'll shoot it this weekend and upload a tutorial.

If you shoot yourself against a green screen or a blue screen, then you can color key the background out, place the footage of you behind the background that you want, then use the displacement map. That saves a lot of work, as you won't need to rotoscope every frame. Also, the displacement map works best if you set it to a specific color (I usually use "red").

It works with a moving background too, as long as you and the background are both moving in the same way.

 

[FZ1]

I'm really excited to see this thread take off. Again...I don't know much about sculpting and casting our favorite character...but editing and shooting, I do know. Lflank is right on it. If your are going for the P1 cloak effect,from what I can remember, there's not a lot of movement in the background slate of the shot (other than the running scene when he introduces Carl Weathers to the gauntlet blades). If you shoot greenscreen (or whatever color you want since you will key it out) the background can be whatever you want it to be (but it must work with what you want to key over it. In this case the Predator) This you will decide in pre-production. You can see from the clip I posted...I used a moving background. My scene was shot infront of a greenscreen. Using the displacement map will save you a ton of time in post. Again...assuming you use a greenscreen.

 

[Lflank]

I'm really excited to see this thread take off. Again...I don't know much about sculpting and casting our favorite character...but editing and shooting, I do know. Lflank is right on it. If your are going for the P1 cloak effect,from what I can remember, there's not a lot of movement in the background slate of the shot (other than the running scene when he introduces Carl Weathers to the gauntlet blades). If you shoot greenscreen (or whatever color you want since you will key it out) the background can be whatever you want it to be (but it must work with what you want to key over it. In this case the Predator) This you will decide in pre-production. You can see from the clip I posted...I used a moving background. My scene was shot infront of a greenscreen. Using the displacement map will save you a ton of time in post. Again...assuming you use a greenscreen.

IIRC, the way they did the original cloaking effect in the "P1" movie was to shoot seven or eight plates at slightly different sizes and then composite them on top of each other. That's why it has a "layered" look to it, like a Fresnel lens. Back then, digital displacement map filters didn't even exist.

Amazing that today any schmuck with a laptop can do FX better than Hollywood's best in 1987.

 

[chaospredator]

try this http://fxhome.com/products/

 

[predatron]

wow thanks guys for the help,i did not think id get any response from this thread!ok ill make it a little clearer what i whant to do....

i want to shoot a scene similar to P2 when you see a predator jump off something and the camera pans down the scene as he lands,a tricky shot to do i know but im determined to get it right.

vegas pro 9-check
adobe after effects-check
green screen-check

thanks for links guys and any tutorial are great for me at this stage,im in a band and have done a few music videos so im fimiliar with the process and editing but i have never used any after effects other than a simple filter before so i need all the help i can get haha!cheers

 

[predatron]

I'm really excited to see this thread take off. Again...I don't know much about sculpting and casting our favorite character...but editing and shooting, I do know. Lflank is right on it. If your are going for the P1 cloak effect,from what I can remember, there's not a lot of movement in the background slate of the shot (other than the running scene when he introduces Carl Weathers to the gauntlet blades). If you shoot greenscreen (or whatever color you want since you will key it out) the background can be whatever you want it to be (but it must work with what you want to key over it. In this case the Predator) This you will decide in pre-production. You can see from the clip I posted...I used a moving background. My scene was shot infront of a greenscreen. Using the displacement map will save you a ton of time in post. Again...assuming you use a greenscreen.

wow you even ot the shorting out thing!i understand the process for the effect but the transition from seeing the predator to it morphing in to its cloak mode still confuses me.i briefly tried a basic method last night but it was either on or off if you know what i mean?

also if i shoot green screen do i still have to wear like a bright suit like in the movie or is it possible for me to key out my pred suit as normal?i want to do it so it looks like your vid where you can see me as pred go in and out of cloaking mode,cheers

 

[Lflank]

wow you even ot the shorting out thing!i understand the process for the effect but the transition from seeing the predator to it morphing in to its cloak mode still confuses me.i briefly tried a basic method last night but it was either on or off if you know what i mean?

You can do that by altering the transparency. Set keyframes where you want the pred to start fading, and where you want it to be totally invisible (or vice versa). Then set the transparency at 0 and 100. Your pred will then fade in and out to camo.

 

[Lflank]

You can do that by altering the transparency. Set keyframes where you want the pred to start fading, and where you want it to be totally invisible (or vice versa). Then set the transparency at 0 and 100. Your pred will then fade in and out to camo.

I forgot to mention: during the cloaked sections, your pred layer needs to be BEHIND the background layer. But during the fade-in, fade-out parts, it needs to be in a layer IN FRONT OF the background. So If you have both effects in the same shot, you'll need to split the layers and move them around.

 

[predatron]

I forgot to mention: during the cloaked sections, your pred layer needs to be BEHIND the background layer. But during the fade-in, fade-out parts, it needs to be in a layer IN FRONT OF the background. So If you have both effects in the same shot, you'll need to split the layers and move them around.

that sounds awesome i just wish i new what it meant haha!ill just have to get more hands on and fiddle around see if i can do it like you advise,thanks

 

[Lflank]

that sounds awesome i just wish i new what it meant haha!ill just have to get more hands on and fiddle around see if i can do it like you advise,thanks

The learning curve for After Effects is pretty steep, but once you learn how to use it, you can do ILM-level effects. It is a very very powerful program.

 

[predatron]

wow sounds cool hope i can get my head round this!

 

[predatron]

If you shoot yourself against a green screen or a blue screen, then you can color key the background out, place the footage of you behind the background that you want, then use the displacement map. That saves a lot of work, as you won't need to rotoscope every frame. Also, the displacement map works best if you set it to a specific color (I usually use "red").

It works with a moving background too, as long as you and the background are both moving in the same way.

im gonna give this displacement map a good try,ill totally bug you though if i cant get it to work haha!thanks again!

 

[Lflank]

im gonna give this displacement map a good try,ill totally bug you though if i cant get it to work haha!thanks again!

I am just a completely amateur filmmaker--I've never had a film class in my entire life and am entirely self-taught. But I'm always happy to help.

If you do a search for my username (lflank) on YouTube, you can see my Star Wars fan films and how I made my Star Wars costumes and props.

I do absolutely everything by myself--I do all the FX and editing, and I also make all the costumes/props and play all the characters (I film myself one character at a time in front of a green screen, then composite them all together). That's why I call it "OneMan Productions" in the credits.

I view it as sort of a game to see how sophisticated I can get and still do all the work myself.

 

[predatron]

wow the vids were awesome!luckly for me it will be a 2 man show haha but man thats loads of work for one guy!

 

[Lflank]

wow the vids were awesome!luckly for me it will be a 2 man show haha but man thats loads of work for one guy!

The hardest part was the lightsaber fight. Since both characters are me, I was just swining at empty air when I filmed each part, and I had to make sure I stopped at the right place, since the lightsabers never actually hit each other.

 

[predatron]

ok guys im armed and ready with my green screen!.....now what?haha only kiddin!

im gonna test out some stuff this week,one thing i was gonna ask though was,i can get the rough predator effect but im trying to get that repeating ripple effect.i know how it was done in the movie but is there any way of replicating this with vegas or adobe after effects?

cheers!

 

[Lflank]

ok guys im armed and ready with my green screen!.....now what?haha only kiddin!

im gonna test out some stuff this week,one thing i was gonna ask though was,i can get the rough predator effect but im trying to get that repeating ripple effect.i know how it was done in the movie but is there any way of replicating this with vegas or adobe after effects?

There's no way to do the multi-layered Fresnel-lens sort of look, because that was not done digitally--it was done by layering several shots on top of each other.

But in After Effects, in the Displacement Map function, there are two sliders for horizontal and vertical displacement. Increasing the values on those, gives you a more layer-y ripple-y look.

 

[predatron]

There's no way to do the multi-layered Fresnel-lens sort of look, because that was not done digitally--it was done by layering several shots on top of each other.

But in After Effects, in the Displacement Map function, there are two sliders for horizontal and vertical displacement. Increasing the values on those, gives you a more layer-y ripple-y look.

your help is invaluable once again mate!