Power Tool Advise?

[Spartan375]

Well, its not prop related, but since the tools are going to be used on prop making i believe it makes it prop related. Anyway.

I found a good Drill Press (i know for sure that is good, i know someone who has the same model) and the price was lower than i expected. The question is not about Drill Press.

I found an Electric Spray Paint Gun for 20€
According to the description on the catalog, its 100W, 160 bars max pressure, it has adjustable amount of paint sprayed, 4 meters cable, some accessories, three years warranty, and its probably E.U Made.

The question is if i can use this thing to paint large props and also other thing i made (small to medium wooden stuff mostly) and also if its appropriate for such works.


I know that i may need a gun with air compressor, but simply, i have no money for that kind of stuff.

So, should i take it or leave it?


Thank you in advantage people!

 

[Spartan375]

Anyone?

 

[themanwoaname]

im sorry man, i know i had a hard time figuring out what you were asking because of the metric system, maybe thats why there arent many responses?

im in the same boat, not so much figuring out what could work, but having an idea what i need, and how much i have to spend to get what i need.

 

[Wes R]

I wish i could help but I use spray cans. we have something like that, a Wagner power painter, that we use to paint walls and stuff around here at the house. Not really sure as my dad handles it.

 

[exoray]

As for the electric spray gun, well, yeah they paint... Or should I say they spit and projectile vomit paint...

They are much better suited for painting houses where a textured surface is the norm... They work better with house type paints then they will with modeling type paints, and they don't realize the same smooth finish as even cheap air sprayers...

Now yeah with some practice, working on thinning out the paint ratio and trying different paints you can probably get some decent results, but IMO you would be much better off investing in an air compressor and a cheap air sprayer for modeling...

If you want to paint prop walls and larger object it might work out OK, but from my experience with the Wagners (the most popular brand in the US) they are more a homeowner tool then a professional tool... Don't get me wrong I have used them professionally, and many contractors will for small jobs, you can knock out trim and doors damn quick with them vs brushing but I would never consider using them for and prop or modeling work... And even professionally for home painting bucket pressure sprayers work 100 times better...

 

[Spartan375]

Thanks for the replies guys!


Well, i was believing that those stuff are not good for such jobs, but is i was going to be 80%-70% or even 60% close to the results of a gun with air compressor, it would be a nice alternative...

Anyway...

Brand is Parkside for the record.
I believe it has to be a good tool for its price, but i am not planning to paint walls for now...


So, i now have to keep painting with brushes ( :angry ) and start playing Lotto to get a nice a nice air compressor and gun.

Any further advise on good air compressor and gun brands and their use in painting props?

 

[exoray]

If you are willing to take it slow you don't necessarily need a huge compressor, and even cheap air sprayers surprisingly work well for what they are...

Can't give much advice about where you can get one or what brand since you are half way round the world but here in the US you could get a complete cheapy air setup at Harbor Freight for a few hundred dollars out the door, air compressor, spray gun, oil/moisture traps and hose... It won't be a great setup and depending on how much you invest in the air compressor you will be limited on continuous spray, but for occasional use it will get the job done...

 

[Spartan375]

It would be a hard time gathering the money anyway, so i don't mind to gather a little more to buy something good. I don't actually trust a cheap compressor, so i will defiantly don't buy a cheap one. I believe it would be dangerous as well.

As for the paint pistols, as long they are not exploding in my hands, it would be ok.

No, we don't have Harbor Freight ( :sick ) but i believe we have products from same brands in U.S and E.U.
I can order stuff from E.U or even U.S, and it will cost less from buying something here with the new 23% VAT, so there is no problem in that. :cool

(Not to mention that with all the mess here i am thinking to immigrate in U.S, if you guys want me...)

 

[Spartan375]

I found an Air Compressor!

Is made by the same brand. Parkside if any of you guys is familiar.

I apologize if if made any mistake, my English in technical matters are not good. (Not that my English are good in general but anyway...)

The compressor can hold 24 Lit (6.33 gallons), works on 8 bar (116.03 psi), 270 ltr/min (71.253 gallons/min), power 1,8kW (2.41 hp), 2.850 r.p.m, it has two manometers and two "connections" and it has a "hyperpresure valve" (i guess it's a Pressure Relief Valve?).

It comes with 3m (9.84ft) power cable and 10m (32.80ft) hose. And it has two wheels and a handle to move his 26.5kg (58.42lbs) around.

Comes with a Three Year Warranty and costs 111€. (21% vat included)

Compared to similar compressors i found here, it costs the half of a Made in PRC one, and this is E.U made. Also has three-year warranty instead of two.

If this thing is any good, that would mean that i will have enough money left for many goodies! :$


So, is good, or its now?
Come on guys, be hard, i don't want soft opinions...

 

[JFB64]

I just read through this thread and my advise is save and buy a GOOD compressor. Consider it an investment so don't buy junk. You will be surprised on how versitile a compressor is. As to the compressor you found, I it sounds like a good one BUT does it have the power to run a spray gun. Sray guns use lots of air and the compressor needs to be big enough to keep up. I don't spay with a big gun so I don't know what's required all I can say is find out the air required for the gun you want and see if that compressor can handle it.

 

[cheech9898]

Compressor seems about average on its spec's for it's size. Powering an airbrush it's fine; a small 'detail' paint spray gun shouldn't be a problem other than it may cycle fairly frequently & you'll have to let it catch up... probably the same with a small die grinder. Larger air tools & full size HVLP guns it won't be good for since it won't have the air flow or air reserve to power them. Best to look at the potential air tools your interested in and see their requirements. If the compressor air flow (CFM, L/min, etc) meets the tool requirements, use about 70% of the tank capacity value (70% of 24L is 16.8L) to calculate how long it will power a tool before the compressor cycles and you can figure how hard you'll be working the compressor.... more frequent cycling = harder on the compressor and the shorter the lifespan.

Just as an example, a small detail gun will use around 4-5 cfm (113-171 L/min). So 16.8 L air reserve will last you about 9-10 seconds of spraying before it most likely cycles.

The big question in this scenario is duty cycle and how long does it take the compressor to recharge the tank or what it's recharge rate is. If it can run continously to pump quick enough to never run out of air and keep the flow at the required 113-171 l/m and just not shut off.

I do automotive work and my shop compressor is a Delta 80 gallon 2 stage 220v that flows 16cfm and an 80/20 duty cycle

 

[Spartan375]

Unfortunately, i have no space for anything big anyway... (living in an apartment)

And even if a wanted a bigger and stronger one, i do not have the money. Usually they cost 800€ or much more here.


But.
I am not planning on painting cars or anything in the size of a door.
I want to make props and paint them to look good six inches away form your eyes. What i need, is a nice smooth finish using the colors i made and i can't find in sprays.
Making a custom spray can cost around 15-20€
So, 10 cans can cost from 150 to 200 €...
Anyway. The way i paint is in sectors. That way, if something goes wrong and i have a "watery texture", i can sand it causing minimum damage. Usually i spay for 4 seconds each sector in every coat of paint.

So, if i can use Mini HVLP guns and airbrushes i guess it would be "nice".
I didn't planned to use a gun with a huge 500ml jar anyway...

The company that made the compressor also made tools for it. I guess they will probably work but you never know...
The spray gun they made requires 3bars and it is HVLP.


But if the compressor is too weak even for these works, then I'll pass...

 

[cheech9898]

Over simplifying this because I'm horrible at explaining things and I hated physics in school. But by your post you seem to be not considering the compressor's flow rate.

For spraying paint you have to worry about pressure and air flow volume. You have to have the pressure to correctly atomize the paint at the nozzle but you have to have the air volume to move the atomized paint particles otherwise the paint will fall out the air and you have small fan/spray pattern. For air powered rotary tools you have to have the air flow volume to provide the torque to keep them spinning under load. The only time you really have to worry about max air pressure capability of the compressor is if you have a quick on/off impact air tool like a nailer, stapler, etc. Most hobby/residential air tools rarely take over an operating pressure of 90lbs and I think I have a framing nailer that is rated at 120 PSI max; so max pressure of the compressor & tool is really a mute point unless you're trying to blow up/damage the tool with a compressor that can deliver 180 PSI or something if you miss set the regulator.

You should be looking at the air tools you want (low end now that you'll probably buy and future higher end ones you think you might want down the road) and their spec's and compare them to the compressors capability. If your wanting this mainly for spraying consider the requirements in this order
1) air flow needed (CFM, L/min)
2) air tank size (how long you can spray before compressor cycles)
3) duty cycle - this can be expressed many different ways, but ultimately it will reflect how long the compressor must run to fill the tank and max time it should run in X number of minutes. If it's rated for continuous 100% duty (GREAT!!!) then the manual should have figures on what it will provide as far as max air flow while running and only consider that figure for air flow because it will meet that flow and you wouldn't have to stop spraying)
4) max pressure capability.

 

[SUPERprops]

Spray cans + a good Airbrush and your good!

 

[Spartan375]

You mean custom sprays?
If so, these things cost 15-20 Euros to be made here. Not to mention that the guy that makes them will not waste time making exactly the shade i want and he will probably kick my but out if i push it too much. I am perfectionist, so you understand. Better to avoid.

But if you mean the normal spray cans, then i have to say that my selections are very limited and i can found almost everything in normal paint cans. Sprays are mostly gloss or high-gloss anyway. If you go search for a flat blue spray, everyone will look at you like you are a Klingon!


cheech9898, thanks for the additional info!
Yes, i will use it for spraying. I have a Dremel, and if need any other tools, i will get those you plug them in power source and you go.

So, i guess will made my research on the net...

 

[Lichtbringer]

Your neighbours gonna kill you. :love

If you use such kind of compressor in a appartment, with such a more running than stopping duty-cycle, and the noise it makes ....... you are soon the most hated man in your appartment-house.


Parkside itself is no company, it´s a brand name. There is the Kompernass Trade Company here in Germany, which buys stuff all over the world and gives it their own names, to resell them at supermarkets and homedepots. Some tools may be from China, some from US, and some maybe from the EU. The same story as with the Companies Einhell or Guede. That says nothing about the delivered quality - some stuff is good, some acceptable due to the low price, and others is crap. There is no rule of the thumb, every single product can be good or bad - buy only at stores that would give you a full refund (i think Lidl does) if the bought stuff is crap or damaged, and give it a try.

Kompernaß Handelsgesellschaft mbH | Startseite

Good luck, also with your neigbours.

 

[exoray]

I just read through this thread and my advise is save and buy a GOOD compressor. Consider it an investment so don't buy junk.

Two schools of thought on that, I won't argue a good one is an investment, it took me quite awhile to save up and drop the big bucks on the v-twin 220 monster in my garage... Yeah it's an investment and yeah it can keep up with just about everything I toss at it except wide open sand blasting for extended periods... But it sounds like a freight train, and it's not exactly portable and even if it was most US residential places are not equipped to handle 220 so it almost always requires re-wiring if moved... It's a garage shop tool investment...

But, I'm not always in the shop nor do I always need the beast, so I picked up a cheap pancake compressor, one of the $100 no-name specials... I can carry it around plug it in everywhere and it will run basic air tools, pressurize my pressure tanks for casting, run smaller spray guns, and put air in the car tires, and it creates about 1/10 the noise of the big one...

To be honest at the hobbiest level the little one easily gets 10 times the use...

There are certainly pros and cons to both, if you don't have a large removed shop then a smaller compressor might be a better option, and yeah you can spend more and get better small ones, my $100 pancake one won't hold a candle to a good contractor one but that isn't to say it's useless, it's simply what it is...

As said you need to evaluate what your requirements are, and aim to fill them... Good 'large' spray guns are volume intense, there is no way around it you need a good compressor if you want to spray cars or large items, but not everyone needs that 'Tim the Toolman POWER!'

 

[Spartan375]

Don't worry about neighbors!
They are very annoying and a good noise can be useful... :angry
So don't worry, they will get what they deserve on the one time per month i will use the compressor.

Lichtbringer thanks for the info!
Here we said its a brand! Possible translation error i believe. I mean. germans are very perfectionist on their work and they make exact translations. The only times i don't see a word of Hellenic Origin is when we have no word for the item. Yes, its from Lidl. Everything i got from Lidl is awesome! I took for wood files for example, at 4.99€ and they rock!
In other stores, i would have paid 4.99€ for each one. Germans are known for their high quality stuff.
Even if they took them from China, i am much more pleased with them than with stuff from other companies.

(Also Russians made tough tools. I have some files and they file like charm.)

Ok, sorry if i seem to advertise Lidl here, but since i am the only one from Hellas here, i think it doesn't count because i advertising it to myself...:unsure



If a got it right, if a tool needs 200 L/min, and the compressor can drain 270 L/min, then i am OK?


For the record, when i made the color for my Lawgiver, i used a big 750ml jar. I guess 700ml are still in the jar...
So, i will definitely need a mini spray gun. Not a huge one.

 

[Lichtbringer]

Here we said its a brand! Possible translation error i believe. I mean. germans are very perfectionist on their work and they make exact translations.

Wel, as i´m german i need no translation when checking their stuff. :love

Yes, its from Lidl. Everything i got from Lidl is awesome! I took for wood files for example, at 4.99€ and they rock!
In other stores, i would have paid 4.99€ for each one. Germans are known for their high quality stuff.
Even if they took them from China, i am much more pleased with them than with stuff from other companies.

As i said - it depends.

Some stuff is cheap cause it´s bought in big quantities from well known producers - other stuff is cheap cause they found cheap stuff and imagined a nice margin.

I had luck with that stuff, and at other times i cursed them. It´s like a game.

If a got it right, if a tool needs 200 L/min, and the compressor can drain 270 L/min, then i am OK?

It depends ... on how accurate the given data is. "Usually" compressors of that range suck 200-250 Liter per minute, but can only deliver around 100-120 liter per minute to the tools. Cheap airtools usually have bigger loss of air than the more expensive good stuff - so sometimes a small compressor can work good with better tools, but will suck with the cheaper tools of it´s own brand. Strange world, i know.

 

[Spartan375]

In other Countries, you can find a tool that satisfy your needs. In Greece, you have to satisfy the needs of the tool. :angry

I know i am wasting your time guys, but can you give me an example of the guns i can use with a compressor like that?
Because if i have to pay 100+ for a gun, is not going to happen. I don't have that kind of money... :cry