pepakura ethics (or is it ok to make moulds/bucks from pep files?)

[Knowone251]

I am really curious to hear peoples opinion on this. My stance is that yes it is ok and Ill give an example. Anyone who has done any Ghostbuster propping has heard the term "Stefan's plans". Most people agree that they are the best plans for building a proton pack, and almost everyone who sells pack shells uses his plans for their build. He put in hours and hours of work to make the best possible refrences for all of us to use, and then put it up on the internet for free. Now just because you have access to these plans does not mean that you are capable of making great bucks or molds. It takes tons of skill and time to translate stefan's plans into the real world and no two "stefan accurate" packs are the same. I see pep files the same way. They are a great start and the people who made them are heroes of our community, but it still takes time and skill, sweat and tears of the builder to make them and finish out the details, and if they want to make and sell copies of their work(as long as they acknowldge the person(s) who made the pep file) that is their right. How do the rest of you feel?

 

[STEALTH]

Its ok unless the modeller says otherwise.

 

[Pannaus Props]

Tell you what, if I ever made money out of a pep file, I'd pay a small % to the guy who made it. Heck! Without it, almost 80% of the iron man projects here wouldn't exist

I'd think that would be a nice thing to do

 

[PhantomProphet]

Im not a guy to use pep, but making money off a helm created by pep, wouldnt that be like selling a painting done with paint by numbers? I know i might get a lot of guff for saying that, cause i know a lot of Pep makers go beyond the simple pep base and make it their own, but some dont

 

[STEALTH]

I didn't know the pep scales itself
cut, glues and builds itself. sands and details itself prime and paints itself.

The modellers choose to share their work.
If they say don't mold it you don't and if they say its cool you credit them.

There is no issue with this.

It sucks when people deny using the pep files claiming they sculpted it and then sell casts.

Pretty unethical there.

 

[cayman shen]

Honestly, I think people who provide pep files for free are doing a huge service, so although I know a lot of work goes into a master to mould and sell, I feel like it's kinda piggybacking on somebody else's free gift/work and unless you're going to keep track of where you get your pep files and get the creator's permission, I think this is wrong.

 

[Neon Sentry]

Guess I'll be the first Pepakura modeler to jump in!

I'm all for it. My Daft Punk files have been pepped, molded, cast and sold, and I wouldn't have it any other way. If nothing else, at the very least you could ask the modeler, but I've explicitly stated numerous times on other forums that people are free to use the files as they choose, as long as they don't take credit for my original files.

 

[propologist]

Guess I'll be the first Pepakura modeler to jump in!

I'm all for it. My Daft Punk files have been pepped, molded, cast and sold, and I wouldn't have it any other way. If nothing else, at the very least you could ask the modeler, but I've explicitly stated numerous times on other forums that people are free to use the files as they choose, as long as they don't take credit for my original files.

great attitude to have about it. If everyone is open with , there shouldn't be any problems. I would like to have an Iron Man helmet and bust just for my collection and pep may be my only cheaper choice

 

[TMP]

...............

 

[coofunkcurly]

THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either.

Is this not the same thing as taking the DVD or Bluray and and seeing the suit from all angles and then copying it in clay? By your definition that is also recasting. And I am sure Marvel is not "ok" with it.

And with all due respect why does SIWDAT get to become the Iron Man police and decide all the rules of conduct? Even the prop community as a whole cannot make these rules. They are made by the studio and none of us follow them.

 

[spaceman]

Is pep the same as recasting ? just using a programme instead of silicon or plaster or does the pep user own there work? the same way an architect does, when he uses a progamme to design a building. does pep require skills knowledge to produce somthing from it?. I know the actually making of the item, that is printed out on a flat pieces of paper, requires alot of skill before it becomes somthing worth while. But can you create somthing original from pep? considering that maybe 5% of the population can sculpt, and out of that 5% maybe .05% would be considered master sculptors, its pretty hard for the rest of us . pep does allow alot of people to get much more enjoyment out of there hobby, but if you copy other peoples work and produce it with out there permision its stealing. I guess it depends on where you draw the line to what degree can we take ownership of somthing we see in a movie , its still someone elses creative idea.

Spaceman

 

[Dancin_Fool]

I think it's cool though it's definitely appreciated when someone asks permission first as we do put a lot of work into our models.

The pep file have primarly followed the original lines.
The big difference is that the file is offerd for free. If this was charged for we would probalby say it was LINES CAST OF... :$ or something.
I dont intend to offend any papakura makers, because i do admire their dedication and hard work. I do in fact look forward seeing allot of these suits finished.

But we have to have guidelines of this, one or the other way.

THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either.

I can't agree with this at all. 3d modelling is not a matter of just tracing an image from different angles. Good 3d models can take weeks to months to complete just like an old fashion clay model. I could equally say that any clay model that is based off of reference images is a recast of the original prop.

 

[Finhead]

I think i have to agree with www.siwdat.com stance on this.
If we dont put any drawn lines on this, how can we draw lines on the other creations out there beeing modified and copied.

The rule on SIWDAT is:
If an existing prop, licened or fanmade is altered, modified or resculpted on top of an existing peice and it is not made moulds of to recast it is considerd as a personal project. The moment the armor is moulded to replicate and offerd it is regarded as modified recast peice.

In regards of Pepakura.. The instant the peices is moulded to make several casts it becomes a "recast" peice in my opinion.

Pepakura falls in a category that is hard to pinpoint. Because they can take and outline the details by lines from ANY photo reffrence and turn it into a 3D. This is one of the reasons the Warmachine was adopted so fast due to Hottoys/ Sideshow Photos showing it from all the angles.

The pep file have primarly followed the original lines.
The big difference is that the file is offerd for free. If this was charged for we would probalby say it was LINES CAST OF... :$ or something.

I dont intend to offend any papakura makers, because i do admire their dedication and hard work. I do in fact look forward seeing allot of these suits finished.

But we have to have guidelines of this, one or the other way.

THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either.

I hope this make sence from the sculptors point of stance.

I can't believe I just read that coming form you??? Why would you hound Myself and Stealth to join you community and even open up a section for PEP when this is how you and your Forum feel about this?? Holy hipokrit:rolleyes

On the topic , if an artist builds these and give them out on the net I'm guessing they don't have a problem with people using them how they would like.
I have always contacted the person who modeled the pep before I mold it. Contacted Dung and DF for my stuff as well as Carnage and Clarx. None of them had a problem at all. They even agreed it's a base not a finished product. The pep part although long and sometimes painful the filling and finishing work is as big or bigger part to the process. JMO what do I know. :cool

 

[PhantomProphet]

Is this not the same thing as taking the DVD or Bluray and and seeing the suit from all angles and then copying it in clay? By your definition that is also recasting. And I am sure Marvel is not "ok" with it.

And with all due respect why does SIWDAT get to become the Iron Man police and decide all the rules of conduct? Even the prop community as a whole cannot make these rules. They are made by the studio and none of us follow them.

good point. in the end we all are making copies of something thats been created already

 

[Knowone251]

Well I am glad to hear that people who do the modeling share my stance one it. I also agree its just common courtesy to ask permission.

TMP I think your logic on this is flawed. I suppose if someone cast a pep piece after it was folded but no detail work/sanding ect. was done to it, it would be a complete "recast" of what the modeler/unfolder did, but no one does that. And even then no 2 people put the same pep file together the same way.

"THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either."

This makes no sense. Did you not use reference photos to make your sculpt? Is that not the same thing as a pep modeler using your photos as a reference? Its not like they can plug some different angled shots into a computer and hit the " Make 3D" button. The only difference I can see is the medium. And even then the pep model would still have differences in it, just as your sculpt has differences from the movie used ones. Maby if someone used a 3D scanner on your work I could see the argument but the likelihood of that is pretty far out there. But this is all hypothetical as there would be no reason for someone to use any fans creation as a reference when there are ample pics of the original.

 

[coofunkcurly]

Well I am glad to hear that people who do the modeling share my stance one it. I also agree its just common courtesy to ask permission.

TMP I think your logic on this is flawed. I suppose if someone cast a pep piece after it was folded but no detail work/sanding ect. was done to it, it would be a complete "recast" of what the modeler/unfolder did, but no one does that. And even then no 2 people put the same pep file together the same way.

"THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either."

This makes no sense. Did you not use reference photos to make your sculpt? Is that not the same thing as a pep modeler using your photos as a reference? Its not like they can plug some different angled shots into a computer and hit the " Make 3D" button. The only difference I can see is the medium. And even then the pep model would still have differences in it, just as your sculpt has differences from the movie used ones. Maby if someone used a 3D scanner on your work I could see the argument but the likelihood of that is pretty far out there. But this is all hypothetical as there would be no reason for someone to use any fans creation as a reference when there are ample pics of the original.

QFT!:thumbsup

There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to pep I think. Some folks think it is way easier than it actually is. It is a great tool in prop building but only a small part in producing a great end product.

 

[Rocker]

To me it's the same as the Tuttles from OC choppers or Jessie James from West coast choppers. They buy after market products from so many venders like wheels, seats and fenders and then modify them and sell them as their custom creations. It was through their vision and modification and SKILL that they produced something worth selling. If it wasn't for them, those Raw fenders would still be sitting in boxes somewhere,gathering dust,in the dark......lonely (ok I may have gone to far) but the point is, Pep files don't do anything while they're just floating in cyber space. Having said that, the guys that produce them should take just as much pride as the guys that make the kinda bike fenders worthy enough to be used by the best custom chopper guys. If these guys decided to start selling their files, I'd still buy 'em....or.... I can struggle trying to figure it out myself. I could also try and figure out my own formula for Bondo to say that I made it but that aint gonna happen.

 

[Fetts.Sobriquet]

I think it's fine to make bucks from pep, especially the pep thats out there for free. If I were to make a pep file and offered it for free I wouldn't care what people did with it. Once it is glassed it doesn't look neat and pretty anymore . The nice pep builds have the details re sculpted back into the fiberglass resin and finished in a way that is smooth an neat. it might not be as hard as sculpting from scratch but it's not the same piece as it started out as when it was glue and paper. Every pep is finished differently. The best a pep file can offer is a great base to start from. The magic is in the glassing and the finishing; the detail work. I don't see molding a peped build as recasting. You do owe a lot of credit to the pep file maker. You'd have a lot more work to do without him or her, so if you profit it would be cool if you gave them a little kick back.

 

[STEALTH]

I think i have to agree with www.siwdat.com stance on this.
If we dont put any drawn lines on this, how can we draw lines on the other creations out there beeing modified and copied.

The rule on SIWDAT is:
If an existing prop, licened or fanmade is altered, modified or resculpted on top of an existing peice and it is not made moulds of to recast it is considerd as a personal project. The moment the armor is moulded to replicate and offerd it is regarded as modified recast peice.

In regards of Pepakura.. The instant the peices is moulded to make several casts it becomes a "recast" peice in my opinion.

Pepakura falls in a category that is hard to pinpoint. Because they can take and outline the details by lines from ANY photo reffrence and turn it into a 3D. This is one of the reasons the Warmachine was adopted so fast due to Hottoys/ Sideshow Photos showing it from all the angles.

The pep file have primarly followed the original lines.
The big difference is that the file is offerd for free. If this was charged for we would probalby say it was LINES CAST OF... :$ or something.

I dont intend to offend any papakura makers, because i do admire their dedication and hard work. I do in fact look forward seeing allot of these suits finished.

But we have to have guidelines of this, one or the other way.

THE ISSUE...
I know if we made a CUSTOM sculpt and shown it from all angles that could been replicated with Pepakura 3D programs in a day.
Then to shortly after se the pepakura file maker offer it for free and tell that anyone can use it to what they want.... That would not be ok with us. I dont belive it would be with any other either.

I hope this make sence from the sculptors point of stance.

I cant believe I'm reading this non sense

The modellers themselves say its ok, why is it even an issue at all?

We put so much work to finish these projects and you totaly write that off with your post.

WE bring it to life and make it scaled to real world size so its wearable, not all files are absolute, from my exeperience, i've always have to customize the part after its built so that it can work as a wearable part using ingenuity,. just cause you see it fit me all nice and right doesn't mean there wasn't mods I have to make to make it work. It just ignorance.

This cant be done in the pep program because of its limits.

 

[Pannaus Props]

I'd still pay a small % of any earnings to the file maker...even if he says it's for free. Takes a lot of fairness to do that. At least, I'd do that.