Originals vs Recasts

[headdragon1]

I think Iw as misunderstood. Bensin, Iw as not saying taht I would rather sepnd 150 than 200 for a recast. I am new to this entire model thing but I have seen some that are models that I would pay for that were like 20.00 that I would not have a problem buying just to practice paint. Who cares if it looks like crap I am just going to ruin it more than likely practicing. Now if I was going to send it to somone to paint and make look good then yea that would definatly be worth spending alot on. However I do feel that 200 is a little much. I collect stautes of comic characters and some of those can get up there in price so I know fully of the cost I can still think that it is rediculous but if thats what we want we have to spend it.

So all that said Basically what I was saying is for practice for my self I would not want to spend the big amount but if I could find one WAY cheaper just to expirement on painting I would go with that. For collecting I say go for the gold and get the original!

That make more sense that what I said before?

 

[sabres21768]

But by buying a recast, you're keeping the recaster in business. You're giving them a reason to continue to steal from legitimate producers.

It's like you're saying "I'm going to go out and buy up all the illegal drugs I can and flush them all down the toilet."

You're not accomplishing anything.

 

[headdragon1]

But by buying a recast, you're keeping the recaster in business. You're giving them a reason to continue to steal from legitimate producers.

It's like you're saying "I'm going to go out and buy up all the illegal drugs I can and flush them all down the toilet."

You're not accomplishing anything.

ACtaully I am accomplishing alot for myself. I am not trying to make anyone mad but I am looking out for myself. Not if I can buy the recast just under the price of the original but if I can buy one or two for 20 vs 200 I will buy those two until I figure out how to paint and not throw away 200 bucks or more trying to learn and expirement. I am not out to stop recasters. I am not in a noble battle against them I just dont want to go buy from them if I can get the original for 10-30 dollars more. Makes no sense but if we are talking about a 80% price difference then yeah until I get better at it I will go for the cheap one so as to not flush alot more money down the toilet.

Remember I am talking of just long enough to learn how to paint once I understand it then I am done buying the crap and on to the goods.

 

[BENSIN]

I do understand what you're saying, but how many kits are you going to have to buy to get 'good enough' to paint the 'real kits'?

Even if you're a quick learner you're going to have to practice more than once to get a kit to look really good. So let's assume you learn really quickly, and you do so after 3 kits.

That's three kits, assuming they're 75 dollars a piece plus the shipping for each, plus time and supplies. I'm not trying to knock you down but you're still getting ripped off. IMHO if price is the issue and it's all the same, just buy cheap 'real' kits. ...and there are cheap originals out there by the way.

I just got off ebay checking the prices and they're selling kits running around 75 bucks to start, and that's not including shipping. You don't even 'know' for sure what you're getting and shipping isn't anywhere near cheap either.

Up to you , you said you're looking out for yourself, but we're looking out for you and the hobby. Do as you will bro.

 

[sabres21768]

ACtaully I am accomplishing alot for myself. I am not trying to make anyone mad but I am looking out for myself...

That's the kind of crap thinking that will eventually kill the garage kit community.
Hope it's worth it so you can "paint better".

 

[BENSIN]

LOL, I get it. Ass Hat! hahahah that's awesome. I agree with Sabes, like I said, there are original kits out there that you can get for the same price as a 'recast' and you can practice on those. If it's all the same, then you might as well get an original.

That's the kind of crap thinking that will eventually kill the garage kit community.
Hope it's worth it so you can "paint better".

 

[adegregorio]

ACtaully I am accomplishing alot for myself. I am not trying to make anyone mad but I am looking out for myself. Not if I can buy the recast just under the price of the original but if I can buy one or two for 20 vs 200 I will buy those two until I figure out how to paint and not throw away 200 bucks or more trying to learn and expirement. I am not out to stop recasters. I am not in a noble battle against them I just dont want to go buy from them if I can get the original for 10-30 dollars more. Makes no sense but if we are talking about a 80% price difference then yeah until I get better at it I will go for the cheap one so as to not flush alot more money down the toilet.

Remember I am talking of just long enough to learn how to paint once I understand it then I am done buying the crap and on to the goods.

You are obviously missing the whole point of recasting!

AL

@ Sabres..... ......

 

[headdragon1]

LOL, I love the ****** picture that is great! I have never seen that picture befroe but it is good. As for the rest, yes Bensin if I can find an original cast that is the same price as a recast then yes I would buy it. I do understand the point behind recasting and I ahve read alot of threads on here about it and understand what it does to the merchandise. Like I said I am not trying to makje you guys mad, I understand that this is a very touchy subject with some. I do like to discuss things tho because I will learn something and you guys might learn soemthing about the people that you make kits for.

Bensin if you cant point in the direction of the "cheap" real kits that would be great. As I said if I could find those that would be the way to go but I have not. I have yet to purchase any so just let me know and I will definatly look there befero making my final descision.

 

[BENSIN]

http://www.predatorstuff.com/shop/

Check em out, some good ones in there.

 

[REYALS1]

Now Im scared. I never want to even touch a re-cast. You guys may hunt me down, and skin me. No, JK. Who, and where are the ones (on here/elsewhere) that do the casting, and how do you get "involved" with this type of community. Im sure alot of these guys are Pro's. I would never want to do harm, or bring discontent to a hobby, and pastime that is hardly appreciated from people who do not know what this great artistic talented bunch of people are doing. The ones creating these kits, and models/casts, deserve to be respected, and not ripped off.

That would be like me drawing a really great illustration, and someone taking credit for it. Not happenin'.

 

[sabres21768]

Now Im scared. I never want to even touch a re-cast. You guys may hunt me down, and skin me. No, JK. Who, and where are the ones (on here/elsewhere) that do the casting, and how do you get "involved" with this type of community. Im sure alot of these guys are Pro's. I would never want to do harm, or bring discontent to a hobby, and pastime that is hardly appreciated from people who do not know what this great artistic talented bunch of people are doing. The ones creating these kits, and models/casts, deserve to be respected, and not ripped off.

That would be like me drawing a really great illustration, and someone taking credit for it. Not happenin'.

You'll find most of the BIG names in sculpting, casting and painting (including people who sculpt/paint for Sideshow, McFarlane, NECA, etc.) here:

http://www.theclubhouse1.net/forums/

 

[REYALS1]

You'll find most of the BIG names in sculpting, casting and painting (including people who sculpt/paint for Sideshow, McFarlane, NECA, etc.) here:

[URL="http://www.theclubhouse1.net/forums/"]http://www.theclubhouse1.net/forums/[/URL]

Hey, thanks for the link Sabres21768. Ill be checking this out quite a bit. I really want to get into this artform. Ever since I was a child, I loved figures, and models, and the cool monsters that were in the movies, but my community is so small I didnt have access to the industry, and/or schooling... until now.

-Thanks man!
R

 

[sabres21768]

Hey, thanks for the link Sabres21768. Ill be checking this out quite a bit. I really want to get into this artform. Ever since I was a child, I loved figures, and models, and the cool monsters that were in the movies, but my community is so small I didnt have access to the industry, and/or schooling... until now.

-Thanks man!
R

Anytime dude. Always glad to introduce someone to the garage kit hobby.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Headdragon, there is no such thing as a cheap kit - only mass-produced licensed kits can be considered cheap, because they are MASS PRODUCED! Most model kits are limited in the quantity of about 20-50 kits, as they are made by mostly single individuals in their own garage - hence the name garage kits being used for most kits. If you are not willing to pay the price for the original because you think it's ridiculous, you might want to learn a little bit about how these things are made - which will tell you something about why they cost so much.

If you wanna train painting techniques, don't go buying re-casts and trying to justify it with wanting to learn how to paint. That simply won't stick anywhere. Buying re-casts and you help kill a person's or company's interest in making more or new kits, so yes, trying to defend buying re-casts will make people mad. Go buy a cheapo toy and paint-practice on that. Never in a million years can any reason or excuse used justify knowingly buying re-casts.

I don't care about the quality issues or the cheaper prices of re-casts... all I care about is how much every single re-cast sold hurts the producer of the original. Think about that for a second before trying to justify buying re-casts.

The Clubhouse is the best place to learn stuff about model kits and you'll get to meet some of the sculptors and producers of these kits, so it can't be recommended enough for anyone who enjoys model kits and the unique and limited pieces of art they are.

 

[headdragon1]

Headdragon, there is no such thing as a cheap kit - only mass-produced licensed kits can be considered cheap, because they are MASS PRODUCED! Most model kits are limited in the quantity of about 20-50 kits, as they are made by mostly single individuals in their own garage - hence the name garage kits being used for most kits. If you are not willing to pay the price for the original because you think it's ridiculous, you might want to learn a little bit about how these things are made - which will tell you something about why they cost so much.

If you wanna train painting techniques, don't go buying re-casts and trying to justify it with wanting to learn how to paint. That simply won't stick anywhere. Buying re-casts and you help kill a person's or company's interest in making more or new kits, so yes, trying to defend buying re-casts will make people mad. Go buy a cheapo toy and paint-practice on that. Never in a million years can any reason or excuse used justify knowingly buying re-casts.

I don't care about the quality issues or the cheaper prices of re-casts... all I care about is how much every single re-cast sold hurts the producer of the original. Think about that for a second before trying to justify buying re-casts.

The Clubhouse is the best place to learn stuff about model kits and you'll get to meet some of the sculptors and producers of these kits, so it can't be recommended enough for anyone who enjoys model kits and the unique and limited pieces of art they are.

As I said I am new to the entire kit thing but I have had interest in getting some models and learning how to paint them and so on and so forth. I do not officially know when I am looking at a recast, however when I see one model is 200 dollars and then the same model at a different site for 20 dollars then I would assume the cheaper is a recast..? Would I be assuming correct? I am not sure. If I am correct then that would be a cheap recast.

I am not trying to justify buying a recast. I have no reason to justify it becuase well plain and simple if I decide to do it it was a descision that I make and could care less about what others think of it so no justification needed. I do however like to see all my optins and decide for myself before jumping into anything. Which is why we get to have discussions like this one.

I also understand how it could hurt the original artist. I mean it is simple buisness of getting undercut on price for less quality of work. I completly understand that. We have the same issues in my line of work. People open schools who cant train others and then charge less than us. We dont complain about it we just make sure that everyone knows that our quality is better. You get what you pay for. From what I gather from you guys the same goes for recasts it may be cheaper but yoiu get what you pay for is that correct? So if I am going to ruin a model with terrible beginner painting why not by "cheap" crap anyway? Again I am not talking about a price difference of 50 dollars I am talking about as teh example above was of about a 180 dollar difference. Now I had never thopught of the buy a cheap toy and practice paint on that!! That is a great idea I will probably do that so I dont ahve to buy a recast ut I still stand by what I was saying that it makes sense to do it the other way.

I am glad that you came in and said what you said it did show me knew ideas and I am thankful of that. This is a subject that I have put alot fo thought into and will ahve to put alot more thought into it before making a descision. As of now I feel that I agree with most everyone here but at the same time I am not closed minded to the idea that I was presenting justy not fond of it. Now that "NohumorMan" has come and put int he part about using a cheap toy to paint practice I think I feel more like most of you just so that you know where I stand on this.

I have looked into what it takes to make these things and yes it is alot of money, time, and effort but I can still think the price is ridiculous. I bought my wife a new vehicle the other day I thought the price on that was ridiculous but I still bought it. We pay for what we want. I never said I wouldnt pay that for one I just dont like the price.


While I am posting a wall of text I ight as well ask my two cents worth on this subject. What does everyone feel about recast as gifts. I dont mean giving but recieveing. My wife almost bought me a model that was a recast that had been painted and all but since it was already all together I didnt want a bad product if I was not the one getting to ruin it lol... So I told her not to. Now in this case luckily my wife asked me about it but what if she would have bought it without asking?

 

[Kspred]

You can't really fault a person that unknowingly buys a recast. Alot of the times the recaster is very slick in his sales pitch, or you just be getting into it and not have any knowledge of recasts or original makers. Personally, it cheapens the whole excitement of owning whatever it is knowing it's a recast.

Don't support recasters if you can. I know I've gotten taken on a model kit or 2 out of singapore or china somewheres (wife ordered them as presents) where they show the actual real model kit, but what you get is their recasted version with no instructions and shoddy looking pieces with nothing but a photocopy picture of what the finished product should look like. I got a recasted halycon facehugger that just looked like ass, but I didn't have a clue at the time about recasted stuff so just went with it, thinking movie prop model kits all came like that. Then I saw what it was SUPPOSED to look like and come with and was like GRRRRRRRRRRR. In all, it may take a few bucks more for an original in some cases, but the quality will be so much more worth it.

 

[PredatrHuntr]

Dont support recasters by buying their stuff. Most of it comes from Taiwan/Singapore. Ebay is chock full of them...

 

[Predian]

If you are new to this hobby you will probably try all sorts of internet searches and come up with the following:
Monsters In Motion (US- not recasts)
http://www.monstersinmotion.com/catalog/
Gremlynz/Modelkitsonline, Comet Miniatures and Frontier Models (UK- many recasts)
http://www.modelkitsonline.com/
http://www.comet-miniatures.co.uk/
http://www.frontiermodels.co.uk/
Ebay: basically anyone selling from Thailand and has lots of kits in their shop is selling recasts
http://www.cgmodelkit.com/index.php
http://www.revengemonst.com/
Predatorstuff (US- not recasts)
http://www.predatorstuff.com/

I'd also like to point out that those of us who do not frequent online garage kit communities and are lucky to attend a sci-fi fair or convention then you usually start out buying what you can find and are introduced to. Garage kits are very often much better sculpts than anything made as an officially licenced product, but without that licence their work is open to legal issues. This said, my only local model shop sold a few Horizon kits and the rest were the cheap Phantom vinyl recasts.
Before Dan started selling Predator kits at predatorstuff last year the first and only place I had seen many of the kits were through UK shops which turned out to be recasts.
To tell a teenager that if they can't afford an original then they shouldn't buy one at all is asking a hell of a lot, especially when so many long-running model shops support recasters and the film studios who own the rights don't seem to care.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Headdragon: Honestly, I feel bad for writing such a harsh sounding post... I just can't help feeling strongly about this, because I have witnessed what it does to people and how it eventually affects me and my own collecting.

I'm supposed to help people see the wrongs of re-casting, not pummel them and force them to think my way is the right way - it's counter-productive and may get the one asking for opinions to go with re-casts, not because they think it's right, but because I was an ass. If you know what I mean.

But seriously, there is no excuse for knowingly buying re-casts. You can't fault someone for unknowingly buying one - that would be stupid. You can try to teach them, so that they will learn in the future... but it is still up to them... as it's never a good idea to try to dictate what they should do.

Seriously, I don't know where I'm going with this... just wanted to say that my previous post should probably not have been so confrontational and dictating as it turned out. Though, the point of the post is still the same: re-casts are CRAP!

Cheers.

 

[REYALS1]

So, would this be considered a re-cast? I found it on... you guessed it... Ebay. It sounded like a good kit, and was priced high, so therefor I took it as an original.