original trooper face mould?

[CTF]

<div class='quotetop'>(Trallis @ Sep 22 2006, 08:13 PM) [snapback]1324357[/snapback]</div>

remember just cause it is casted from a helmet doesnt mean it wasnt used in one of the original movies. the guy may not be lying. :unsure

pretty sketchy though.. definitely not enough info from the guy
[/b]

he he He said casted...

 

[RKW]

How come the vocoder is sharper than any fan helmet sold to date other than the latest laser scanned helmet?

What's the mold made from?

Perhaps AA could verify the mold is made from the correct material.

 

[AnsonJames]

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Sep 22 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]1324383[/snapback]</div>

How come the vocoder is sharper than any fan helmet sold to date other than the latest laser scanned helmet?

What's the mold made from?

Perhaps AA could verify the mold is made from the correct material.
[/b]

It's a cast of the inside of a faceplate - that's why the vocoder looks sharper.
It's most definately not an original mould - there isn't enough undercut beneath the vocoder and tubes.
Both the hero and stunt helmets had much more undercut in this area so therefore it can't be real...

 

[RKW]

Wasn't the TE helmet mold produced from the inside of an original helmet?

The TE1, Gino etc vocoders are really soft. This has the sharpness of an original helmet and the latest TE scanned helmet. If someone went to the trouble of sharpening the vocoder then why not sharpen the teeth??

 

[AnsonJames]

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Sep 22 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]1324398[/snapback]</div>

Wasn't the TE helmet mold produced from the inside of an original helmet?

The TE1, Gino etc vocoders are really soft. This has the sharpness of an original helmet and the latest TE scanned helmet. If someone went to the trouble of sharpening the vocoder then why not sharpen the teeth??
[/b]

Just means the faceplate that was copied had soft teeth - the faceplate hasn't been sharpened - it just looks sharper because you haven't seen a cast from the inside of a faceplate before.
If you vacform over this mould the vocoder detail will look just the same as all the other helmets out there.
It's probably a copy of a Meatsock or possibly a GF faceplate, as I said before the lack of undercut proves that it's not genuine.

 

[RKW]

I thought the meatsock was just a vac formed recast of the TE which means the details will be even softer. If the outside of the helmet looks soft then surely you can't get super sharp detail by just casting the inside of it. Which means then that what you're saying is that this helmet has been produced from the inside of an original just like TE did himself or is a copy of TE's original mold. I'm sure the list of people who could have made a copy of TE's mold must be short.

 

[Apollo]

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Sep 22 2006, 07:34 AM) [snapback]1324383[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps AA could verify the mold is made from the correct material.
[/b]

I think AA has other things on his mind right now considering Judgement has been passed on him by the Court on Sept. 20.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I agree with the findings, that this is made from an existing helmet, but cannot from that conclude, as some have, that that means fan-made.

Was AA the only one making the Trooper helmets. I read somewhere that they had to outsource to get the quota filled. Who's to say that those manufacturers had perfect molds... and did all background troopers have the same level of sharp features and undercut under the cheek tubes as the foreground troopers and hero helmets?

In RotJ they had soft rubber masks for the far background troopers... who's to say they didn't have something similar, of lesser quality, for ANH?

How many helmets were actually made for ANH and how many have been found and identified?

Of course... I'm only speculating here... not making any conclusions.

<div class='quotetop'>(AnsonJames @ Sep 22 2006, 03:06 PM) [snapback]1324423[/snapback]</div>

It's probably a copy of a Meatsock or possibly a GF faceplate
[/b]

If you made a copy from the inside of a Meatsock, wouldn't you get a correctly scaled TE with sharp features, as it was vacformed directly on top of a TE face? (from what I have heard)

 

[Clutch]

To me, vac-forming isn't an exact science. If you are stretching material over something, you will loose a lot of detail. It isn't like pouring resin over something. Then, you would have an exact copy.

Again, to me it seems if TE made a mold from the inside of a screen used helmet, it cannot have the same sharpness of the original and thus the copies he made from his molds are less sharp than the original.

The laser-scanned helmet is another story. To me, this is as close as it gets for now.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(clutch @ Sep 22 2006, 04:03 PM) [snapback]1324448[/snapback]</div>

To me, vac-forming isn't an exact science. If you are stretching material over something, you will loose a lot of detail. It isn't like pouring resin over something. Then, you would have an exact copy.
Again, to me it seems if TE made a mold from the inside of a screen used helmet, it cannot have the same sharpness of the original and thus the copies he made from his molds are less sharp than the original.
The laser-scanned helmet is another story. To me, this is as close as it gets for now.
[/b]

Vacforming over something has all the details and sharpness on the inside of the pull. Creating a mold from the inside of the helmet will basically give you what the original mold was, give or take - sharp and full of detail.

Look at any vacformed piece and compare sharpness and detail on the outside and on the inside and you will find that it is more crisp and sharply detailed on the inside than out. It may not be as precise as a silicone mold, but it can get pretty close to the original mold.

The Meatsock was vacformed on the outside of a TE mask, which means that when making a mold from the inside of that one, you will only get a TE cast likeness and not TE mold likenes (as the mold details/sharpness is on the inside of the TE face)

 

[AnsonJames]

Well it's copied from the inside of someone's helmet - I'm sure the mould is fake.

Apollo - what's this about judgement in the SDS case being passed on the 20th of September?
I'd like to know more about that...

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Sep 22 2006, 07:17 AM) [snapback]1324457[/snapback]</div>

Vacforming over something has all the details and sharpness on the inside of the pull. Creating a mold from the inside of the helmet will basically give you what the original mold was, give or take - sharp and full of detail.

Look at any vacformed piece and compare sharpness and detail on the outside and on the inside and you will find that it is more crisp and sharply detailed on the inside than out. It may not be as precise as a silicone mold, but it can get pretty close to the original mold.
[/b]

Precisely.
JJ

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Sep 22 2006, 04:34 AM) [snapback]1324383[/snapback]</div>

How come the vocoder is sharper than any fan helmet sold to date other than the latest laser scanned helmet?

What's the mold made from?

Perhaps AA could verify the mold is made from the correct material.
[/b]

AA didn't make the original molds. But I suppose he may have heard details about it.
JJ

 

[AnsonJames]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

AA didn't make the original molds. But I suppose he may have heard details about it.
JJ
[/b]

Here we go :rolleyes

 

[Clutch]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Sep 22 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]1324457[/snapback]</div>

The Meatsock was vacformed on the outside of a TE mask, which means that when making a mold from the inside of that one, you will only get a TE cast likeness and not TE mold likenes (as the mold details/sharpness is on the inside of the TE face)
[/b]

Does that mean that meatsock helmets are bigger?

 

[SithLord]

I agree with what's been said about the details of the mold, not to mention that the story is untrue. It's sad to see the seller using John Frost's name in that way. That's not how the original molds would have looked like.

 

[TK1536]

With regards to the Meatsock (and seriously, when was the last time you've seen one even sold on ebay?)... I've handled and assembled one. Put it together for a Garrison friend who bought it from Meatsock off ebay. He did not know the whole back story.

Anyway, the meatsock is a TE recast. He copied the inside of the TE helmet, essentially duplicating the mold with some softning of the details. No one would vac-form OVER an existing helmet... you would crush it. And if you filled it for rigidity, then you've duplicated the mold and why vac-form over it?. It's preposterous.

Side by side, to the uneducated, the meatsock is very close to almost identical to the TE. But regarding the one I handled, it was made of very thin HIPS... too thin for my liking and much thinner than the HIPS TE used. Almost paper thin under the jowles.

If someone were to have made these molds in question using a meatsock face, and filled it with something like hydro-cal, the weight alone would've caused the face to warp and distort, which seems to be evident on this find.

 

[PMTrooper]

what do you think how old the molds are?
they look very old
maybe older than a TE?

 

[TK1536]

Assuming this is not a real mold, it's if anything, it's a decent forgery, made to look very old and used. Which raises the question if someone went through that much trouble to make it look old, why would they not make the item in question as equally compelling and accurate?

The use of wood in the back, placed there I'm assuming for rigidity, puts it in an even more interesting and debatable arena... why? Certainly, if the mold material is something like hydro-cal or a similar cement, having it hollow would make it lighter. But the use of wood seems almost 'last minute'. Like something a person would use quickly to make it rigid for quick production. The wood also looks old and used. And, I don't know about you... but how many people would think of joining two face molds like that? It's not without utility, but certainly unusual.

One thing's for sure. Those teeth are no where as sharp as a TE or Gino. With that said, if it HAD to be real, by default it seems it might be a Hero helmet mold? Thoughts?

 

[troopermaster]

Taking a mould from inside a vacformed pull will NOT give you the same mould it was pulled from.Yeah some parts will be sharp,the outer hard edges but where the plastic need pulling into crevices and doesn't quite pull hard enough,you get soft lines and those get softer each time you recast a plastic formed part.It's evident with TE's helmet's.The original he used was a very good pull but his reproductions are much softer so go figure.

The bump on the tooth hole is all the evidence I need to see that this helmet is a copy of a TE/meatsock.There is no way on this earth that the bump could ever be there if the mould was taken from anything else except a replica helmet.Only TE's mould had this bump for some reason whether it was something he filled the hole in the tooth when he recast the original or it was just a flaw I don't know but it's there on his and it's there on this.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(Jumpin Jax @ Sep 22 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]1324484[/snapback]</div>

AA didn't make the original molds. But I suppose he may have heard details about it.
JJ
[/b]

Well I'm sure a number of people here would like to hear some evidence of this.

Or is this going to be another of those "well I know but I just cant say"

Cheers

Jez