Original Or Replicated: Which Is Easier???

[Petseal]

Hello all, I came across a thread called "1/650 Ent D" which absolutely blew my mind. I would give my soul to apprentice with this genius! Anyway I wrote the following with the intention of posting it on his thread because I think his work exemplifies the point I was trying to make! Then it occurred to me that might look like stealing his thunder so I decided to start a new thread instead! Enjoy and please feel free to shoot from the hip if you feel it necessary!

This project (referring to 1/650 Ent D) being crafted by REL shows something that I have come to believe about people like us who try to duplicate TV and movie props!
Not wishing to belittle or trivialize what professional prop makers do for TV and film but I believe building a prop for screen use, in general, is easier than what we do for a hobby!
Never having the opportunity myself to work in the movie industry I can only judge by what I have read and seen (bonus features on DVDs and the like).
I know there are some members here who have had experience in that profession so I am sure I will be called to task on this!
From what I have learned designs go threw several hands before they are finally approved! As far as I know this is true whether it is a hand held prop or a gigantic miniature space ship.
Then it is passed to the prop department were it is physically build! They take the final drawings and do their magic using whatever methods needed to make it look like the "approved" design!
Now don't get me wrong this is a fantastic feat in it's own right and I am extremely envious of the position they have! But it is a first off and I am sure that liberties can/are taken to insure a viable item! These are then cast to make versions for different uses, hero versions and stunt versions for example!
Now we the scratch builders have a much harder time of it! Most collectors are looking for that item that matches the one used in the film which someone had to build AND build to be an "exact" replica of the screen version. An example I found was a post for the Spartan shield from the film "300" (I personally want there ABS!). It seems there is a shield out there but it is several inches smaller than the screen used version so the poster was seeking information on a more accurate version!
The problem scratch builders have is it could take months of looking threw screen caps, attempting to estimate sizes, trying to locate (obscure) materials and information , contacting "people in the know", long before pencil ever touches paper. I personally have spent months looking for that specific objects to match the some detail on a prop I am building. I have one on hold right now because I can't find a 2" x 4" piece of metal screening!
To me people like that are the real artisans and believe me I would never put my meager talents in the same league at REL. He is attempting to recreate a starship to exact specifications, some of which have been filled and re-cut! And he is having to modify those specifications to fit a new scale! I have the blueprints around here and I would not even know were to begin to do what he is doing! It blew my mind when I read in one of his updates that he was replacing the phaser strip because it did not look correct! I would never have seen that! That shows an unwavering sense to detail that I find extremely noteworthy!

Now to a few points that I might get to before being shot! I know there are major exceptions to what I have written here! There are prop department on films were I would never have believed one was needed. A film like The Fugitive where they crash a 747 down a lonely back road. Can't use a real plane so build a model and it would have to be very realistic!
I have also seen a film, do not remember which one, were the model makers spent months building the most detailed building I have ever seen. You would believe that you could walk up to the front door, open it and enter, but watch out for the bird droppings! It was that detailed. And then they BLEW IT UP!
And CGI is a whole other realm which leads to other interesting details. I owned a Babylon 5 space station long before a model of it appeared on the show. It was in a gift shop on the station itself and I believe it was the model! Until then it was all CGI!

Anyway this is what I believe and I would be more than happy to hear any arguments pro or con! I pride myself on being open minded and if I have something wrong then I can reevaluate and modify my belief!
Thanks all who read this and please know I am not trying to annoy anyone. Just trying to get me thought out there for public consumption!
All the best, Petseal

 

[PHArchivist]

I have also seen a film, do not remember which one, were the model makers spent months building the most detailed building I have ever seen. You would believe that you could walk up to the front door, open it and enter, but watch out for the bird droppings! It was that detailed. And then they BLEW IT UP!

Independence Day? The White House?

One only needs to look as far as the Millenium Falcon to decide what is easier - to create or replicate.

MUCH easier to pull any old part out of a box, place it here or there on the base model, say "OK that looks cool...", stick it down and move on than it is to research thousands of 30-year-old model parts from hundreds of kits no longer in circulation. Just ask Frank and Moe!

 

[RKW]

If making forgeries was easy the economy would likely collapse.

 

[Petseal]

Independence Day? The White House?

One only needs to look as far as the Millenium Falcon to decide what is easier - to create or replicate.

MUCH easier to pull any old part out of a box, place it here or there on the base model, say "OK that looks cool...", stick it down and move on than it is to research thousands of 30-year-old model parts from hundreds of kits no longer in circulation. Just ask Frank and Moe!

Hello PHArchivist,
You might be right with Independence Day but the skyscraper with the "welcoming committees" on top of seems closer to what I remember. Not the White House, too recognizable!
As far as the Millennium Falcon goes yes I have seen many searches for some odd part from an old airplane, or car or something kit!
Thanks for the input, Petseal

 

[Petseal]

If making forgeries was easy the economy would likely collapse.

Thanks RKW,
Depends on what kind of forgeries I guess???
Later Petseal

 

[pnerves]

MUCH easier to pull any old part out of a box, place it here or there on the base model, say "OK that looks cool...", stick it down and move on than it is to research thousands of 30-year-old model parts from hundreds of kits no longer in circulation. Just ask Frank and Moe!

Perhaps, but what about the work and imagination to come up with the original design? And then the work it takes to translate those designs and make them acceptable to the vision of the designer? Is it really as easy as just throwing a bunch of found objects together? I have little experience at scratch building my own designs, but it's never been as simple as grabbing pieces and gluing. I'm not saying one is easier than the other, especially since I don't 'exact- part for exact part' replicate props. Maybe it's better to leave it as a difference of focus, rather than a 'who works harder' kind of argument?

 

[Mike J.]

On top of everything else, 'we' have a luxury that the original creators do not - time.


-Mike

 

[Petseal]

Perhaps, but what about the work and imagination to come up with the original design? And then the work it takes to translate those designs and make them acceptable to the vision of the designer? Is it really as easy as just throwing a bunch of found objects together? I have little experience at scratch building my own designs, but it's never been as simple as grabbing pieces and gluing. I'm not saying one is easier than the other, especially since I don't 'exact- part for exact part' replicate props. Maybe it's better to leave it as a difference of focus, rather than a 'who works harder' kind of argument?

Hi pnerves thanks for chiming in,
My idea behind this post was to show how much needs to go into replicating a passable prop, be it a blaster, PADD, ship, whatever! And I also realize that the word "easier" may be misleading!
The Millenium Falcon, referred to earlier, was a grab and glue design because in that instance it worked! Once it was complete George Lucas could have very easily said no way but it fit within his vision!
On the other hand Gene Roddenberry would have gone ballistic if presented with the same type of build on the Enterprise.
So staying in the Star Trek genre the Enterprise went threw hundreds of drawings before Gene finally choose the one he liked! Matt Jefferies took the sketch and worked night and day to come up with a 3 dimensional model, which still needed Gene's OK. Finally after months of painstaking work the model, which now hangs in the Smithsonian, is wheeled onto a sound stage and history is created! Now the model did go through a few more minor changes before becoming the ship people like me loved to watch zoom across the TV screen.
Now in the years that followed how many companies have tried to build the "ultimate" TOS Enterprise. And how many got close but never a cigar!
For me the point is that from a creative stance the original prop maker is in a league all there own! Depending on how much heart and soul they pour into it and how much leeway they are allowed to put into the design. Again that leads me to Matt Jeffreys who from what I have read was a very passionate prop builder/designer!
And for people like myself who love to build familiar props there is very little creativity involved because we are making something that has already been created! For me the creativity is the search! Finding something to duplicate the look and feel of a certain prop!
Ask anyone who has attempted to build a prop from any older show or movie! I am sure you will get the same answer, where can I find a (add item here) that has not been produced in over 40 years?
It is things like that that make doing what we do harder, for want of a better word!
I also "don't 'exact- part for exact part' replicate props". Which leads me to another creative part of what we do. Changing details to fit "real life".
My personal passion are Star Trek PADDs. I have managed to find pictures of screen used PADDs and like a lot of other props shortcut abound! Stickers or strips of tape seem to be the favorite detailing device! So when I build a PADD and the screen cap shows strips of tape I try to create a plausible substitute! This I believe is the difference between someone like me who wants something that says "if Star Trek was real this is what it would look like" and someone who wants screen used props, which I can't afford anyway!
Anyway, sorry about being so long winded (if my wife know I could yap like this we would always be on the PC)
All my best, Petseal