Need Help with Rocketeer Cirrus X3 Rocketpack Electronics

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RJMonette88

Active Member
I can see from the drawing the circuit uses a DPDT switch with common being the center tab.
In the inactive mode, the contacts are open on the top two contacts (N.O.) of the 2 internal switches.
No power to the LED lights in one of the internal switches and in the other internal switch, the top 2 wires
are not connected (NO) but the bottom 2 are connected (N.C.) putting GND to pin 18.
When the button is pressed (activated), then the center contact removes the GND from pin 18 and applies it
to pin 19 triggering the sound. At the same time on the other switch, the center contact connects to the top tab
(closes) and the light illuminates as long as you hold the switch in.
I guess you changed the 12v to the lights, to 6v power supply.
The 3v power supply has it's own function and should not be compromised or used for any other purpose.
As I see it the TRIGGER GND. for the sound board is coming from the 3v power supply to pins 18 and 19.

If 3v is getting to the sound board directly and the 12v is feeding the amp. directly, the 6v should go through
the PB switch to turn on the lights and active the sound, it is set to go.

.

You are correct about the lights. The lights Valor provided in his kit were LED that required 12v, but the lights that were already permanantly installed in my pack took 6v, thus the need for a 12v to 6v convertor.

Can you help me understand what you mean by having the 6v go through the PB switch?

I took some more videos to help troubleshoot because I think something is happening in the 6v side of things in dealing with power draw...

This first video has all that requires 6v getting it directly and not working:
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/vne41lc1j79tm2v/IMG_1003.MOV?dl=0[/video]

This second video has only one light connected directly to 6v and still not working:
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2ghjj6c5h1eslv/IMG_1004.MOV?dl=0[/video]

This third video has everything but one of the lights coming from the 3v convertor and everything working (which is weird and confuses me now):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5akgqh5p8wr7s1/IMG_1005.MOV?dl=0
 

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propmaster2000

Sr Member
Hi Ryan,

Are both power supplies marked at what voltages they are set for?
3v at one and 6v at the other and are you still certain that is what you still have?

You need to put a meter on all the outputs of both power supplies to see what is at the blue terminals.
You may have lost the 6v from that converter...should defiantly be checked.

IMPORTANT: The LED lights and Fan are polarity dependent. Positive and Negative to the proper leads.

Your question.
"Can you help me understand what you mean by having the 6v go through the PB switch?"
PB = Push Button with Explanation below:

In the drawing schematic you posted, it shows POS. and NEG. from the 12v battery feeding the 12v LEDs in the original design.
* You mentioned your LEDs take 6v. You just need to put your 6v output to where the 12v supply is in the drawing and then to the
push button switch as shown

One lead of the 6v supply will go through the push button and in this case it shows the negative lead (brown) through that
switches set of contacts while the other lead positive (green) is going directly from the 6v supply to the POSITIVE of the LED ring.
The switch only opens one lead of the power to the LEDs and the 6v supply will be your power for your LEDs.

If you wire your 12v directly into the input of the 6v converter and you put your 6v LED lights (with the correct polarity) on to the
output of any one of the blue terminals, the LEDs should light up.
The only difference in this test is you are not using the push button switch in line to turn them on and off.

Just be very cautious with the 3v supply. It must not go above 3v to risk over voltage on the sound chip, so this supply will NOT BE
USED to power any of the other accessories (the 6v LIGHTs or the power to the fan). It's ONLY usage is to the Sound Chip.

The 12v will go directly to the amp however.

The Lights and Fan may be able to share the 6v coming from the 6v converter. Not sure what the capacity (amperage) the 6v converter
can supply to the LEDs and Fan together so it may be over loading it......
Test the fan alone on the 6v (polarity +/- observed) and the LED's alone (polarity +/- observed).
No switch inline with either item, for the test.

.
 
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RJMonette88

Active Member
Hi Ryan,

Are both power supplies marked at what voltages they are set for?
3v at one and 6v at the other and are you still certain that is what you still have?

You need to put a meter on all the outputs of both power supplies to see what is at the blue terminals.
You may have lost the 6v from that converter...should defiantly be checked.

IMPORTANT: The LED lights and Fan are polarity dependent. Positive and Negative to the proper leads.

Your question.
"Can you help me understand what you mean by having the 6v go through the PB switch?"
PB = Push Button with Explanation below:

In the drawing schematic you posted, it shows POS. and NEG. from the 12v battery feeding the 12v LEDs in the original design.
* You mentioned your LEDs take 6v. You just need to put your 6v output to where the 12v supply is in the drawing and then to the
push button switch as shown

One lead of the 6v supply will go through the push button and in this case it shows the negative lead (brown) through that
switches set of contacts while the other lead positive (green) is going directly from the 6v supply to the POSITIVE of the LED ring.
The switch only opens one lead of the power to the LEDs and the 6v supply will be your power for your LEDs.

If you wire your 12v directly into the input of the 6v converter and you put your 6v LED lights (with the correct polarity) on to the
output of any one of the blue terminals, the LEDs should light up.
The only difference in this test is you are not using the push button switch in line to turn them on and off.

Just be very cautious with the 3v supply. It must not go above 3v to risk over voltage on the sound chip, so this supply will NOT BE
USED to power any of the other accessories (the 6v LIGHTs or the power to the fan). It's ONLY usage is to the Sound Chip.

The 12v will go directly to the amp however.

The Lights and Fan may be able to share the 6v coming from the 6v converter. Not sure what the capacity (amperage) the 6v converter
can supply to the LEDs and Fan together so it may be over loading it......
Test the fan alone on the 6v (polarity +/- observed) and the LED's alone (polarity +/- observed).
No switch inline with either item, for the test.

.

Ok, so I just tested the components that require 6v.

I tried the fan plugged in by itself into the 6v convertor fed directly by the 12v battery and it worked perfect.

However, when I did the same for the lights, which I did one at a time, the convertor would just shut off.
So I've got the 12v to 6v convertor being fed directly from the 12v battery, and feeding one light (which I can't see inside but does not look like an LED fixture). I tried swapping polarity and every time the convertor would just shut off.

So it's clear to see that these dang pre-installed lights are the source of the problem here.

You can see in my first post the original 6v batteries that powered the lights.
Maybe it's an amperage issue?
 

propmaster2000

Sr Member
Hi Ryan,

Are your pre-installed 6v lights on separate wires and can you see the lights themselves?
You mentioned early in the post that your lights are rated for 6v. Is this marked somewhere or you know this?
Is it a strip of lights or individual LEDs wired together?

If your Lights are LEDs, then they are polarity dependent. The positive must go to the positive of your 6v and the negative to the negative.
Reversing the polarity could cause damage if they are not reverse polarity protected.
Are your wires marked with any kind of label = +/- , pos./neg., red or black?

Do you think the rocket lights are incandescent 6v bulbs or LED lights?
Bulbs are not polarity dependent but drain a fair amount a current when on.

So it seems you still have a working 6v power supply from your test with the fan?
If so, then one or both of your rocket lights may have an issue.
In one of the videos your 6v lights worked off the 3v converter but not the 6v converter?

Do you have a multi-meter to check all your voltages and polarity??


.
 
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RJMonette88

Active Member
I still need to get a multi-meter.

It looks like each rocket has an incandescent bulb attached to 2 wires with no marked polarity.
I'm attaching a few pictures. It looks like it says 6v on the bulb.

The 6v convertor does still work when powering just the fan alone.

Both lights DID work when they were on the 3v convertor.
But like you mentioned, I think doing that put too much strain on the sound board, which is probably why the sound board doesn't currently work.

FullSizeRender.jpg FullSizeRender 2.jpg IMG_1031.JPG IMG_1030.JPG

I wish I could just open up or unscrew that nice looking orange clear glass and put in the 12v LEDs Valor provided. That would solve all our problems. Everything is permanently glued in place.
 

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propmaster2000

Sr Member
If the lights are indeed incandescent bulbs, you can measure there resistance to see if they may still be ok
and they would not be polarity dependent.
Without the sound board attached, did you see if the bulbs individually will light at 3v as before?
It is too bad the lights are hard to get to. If they are bulbs, replacing them would be difficult.
Does the number shown in the picture have a 3 in it, can't tell?
White LED strip lights or rings are usually rated for 12vdc because they have a resistor in series with them.
That may be an option if you can mount them in your prop.

.
 
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RJMonette88

Active Member
If the lights are indeed incandescent bulbs, you can measure there resistance to see if they may still be ok
and they would not be polarity dependent.
Without the sound board attached, did you see if the bulbs individually will light at 3v as before?
It is too bad the lights are hard to get to. If they are bulbs, replacing them would be difficult.
Does the number shown in the picture have a 3 in it, can't tell?
White LED strip lights or rings are usually rated for 12vdc because they have a resistor in series with them.
That may be an option if you can mount them in your prop.

.


The lights did individually work from the 3v convertor.
I'm fairly certain the number on the back of the bulb says 6v.

I'm at a place now where I'm investigating how I could take the orange glass out/off and install Valor's 12v LED ring into each rocket.
That sure would make everything A LOT easier, haha
 

propmaster2000

Sr Member
Hey Ryan,

Taking something apart that was build by another is always a challenge.
The "not knowing what your getting into" part.
The number (3) I mentioned earlier is shown in the picture below.
Is it a range of voltage: 3-6V

Not sure what the number indicates.

closeup of number.jpg

Do you know what type of bulb it is?
If you go with LEDs lights, then this won't be an issue any longer....

Having good power supplies is paramount however.
* 3v to the sound board
* 6v to the Fan.
and maybe the 12v from the rechargeable battery to the LED lights (if you go that route).

.
 

RJMonette88

Active Member
Hey Ryan,

Taking something apart that was build by another is always a challenge.
The "not knowing what your getting into" part.
The number (3) I mentioned earlier is shown in the picture below.
Is it a range of voltage: 3-6V

Not sure what the number indicates.

View attachment 756690

Do you know what type of bulb it is?
If you go with LEDs lights, then this won't be an issue any longer....

Having good power supplies is paramount however.
* 3v to the sound board
* 6v to the Fan.
and maybe the 12v from the rechargeable battery to the LED lights (if you go that route).

.


Yeah, the "not knowing what I'm getting into" part sure is fun, haha!
I'm not exactly sure what the 3 is for. It looks like it reads "H3" but I could be mistaken.
Once I get home from work tonight I will see if I can start taking it apart and will relay any new discoveries.
 

propmaster2000

Sr Member
Curious:
I think you have something there. It is an H3 - 6v.
Maybe the H3 is the style of bulb and maybe the bulb is LED with an H3 socket?
Can't imagine it is a Halogen though....
6v H3 bulb.jpg

Looking at the picture, do you think he used an actual bulb socket and reflector to hold the bulb?

Just don't know without seeing it.

Is it possible to contact the builder?
 
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RJMonette88

Active Member
Curious:
I think you have something there. It is an H3 - 6v.
Maybe the H3 is the style of bulb and maybe the bulb is LED with an H3 socket?
Can't imagine it is a Halogen though....
View attachment 756778

Looking at the picture, do you think he used an actual bulb socket and reflector to hold the bulb?

Just don't know without seeing it.

Is it possible to contact the builder?


Looks like both you and I had a lunch break of discoveries...

I had a great breakthrough during my lunch break.
I was able to take off the glass from the light, which is the style bulb you have pictured surrounded by a reflector.
The new game plan is to glue Valor's 12v LEDs in the reflector and install the yellow/orange glass over the top.
So now we'll be rocking 12v LEDs. Now we should be cooking!

...just need to get a new sound board :(

IMG_1032.JPG IMG_1035.JPG IMG_1034.JPG IMG_1033.JPG FullSizeRender.jpg

And below is Valor's 12v LEDs. Woo!
IMG_1037.JPG
 

propmaster2000

Sr Member
Good deal.

The 12v LED lights will work way better and draw less current then the two bulbs.
Those Halogen bulbs would draw a lot of current from the 6v converter, especially if the fan was on it too.

Do you feel the sound board has been compromised and is know longer functional?
If you still have the 3v, give the sound circuit a try again.

The 12v from your main battery supply will now be the supply voltage to the AMP (wired), as well as the LED rings (switched).
Tapping off the 12v supply, through the push button switch and too the LED rings as the drawing shows.

.
 
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propmaster2000

Sr Member
There are pros and cons to using incandescent lights over LEDs.
Downfalls of using bulbs is that they draw a fair amount of current for the light they produce
and heat can also be a factor. The life of a bulb is also limited because of vibration.
One thing that a bulb does that LEDs can't, is having a bit of a "slow dim effect".
When power is removed from incandescent bulbs, there is a bit of slow dim associated with them, LEDs do not.
LEDs turn on and off fairly rapidly, but there is something you can do to effect this.
By adding a small, simple, inexpensive circuit of 1- NPN power transistor, 1- @ (100mf - 250mf) capacitor and a few resistors.
The transistor is used as an electronic switch and the capacitor is used for a slow discharge of voltage through the Base of the transistor.
As voltage drains from the cap., this lowers the signal to the Base of the NPN and the current flow through the transistors C-E diminishes
causing the LED strip to fade.
The values of the capicitor and resistors, as well as there placement, can make the dimming circuit function in different ways.
The video below is just one example using an NPN TIP120 transistor, 100mf cap. and a few 10k resistors. at 12vDC


https://youtu.be/PqsDr6Fz9-A
 
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RJMonette88

Active Member
Just checking to see if there are any updates on your modifications. :)


Thanks for checking in!
I have been pretty busy with work the past several days and haven't had too much time to work on it.
I'm hoping to make some progress today working on the internal layout of where everything will sit within the pack, then I'll be able to wire it up.
I did also get a new sound board.
I'll post the next progress I make.
 

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propmaster2000

Sr Member
Hey RjMonette88,

I am very interested in your progress on this. With the issues with the sound chip and Rocket lights, I was wondering
if you've managed to work it out. :)

Thanks.
 

RJMonette88

Active Member
Hey RjMonette88,

I am very interested in your progress on this. With the issues with the sound chip and Rocket lights, I was wondering
if you've managed to work it out. :)

Thanks.

So sorry for the radio silence! Thank you for your continual investment into this project!
I've been keeping pretty busy with work, having a few video productions that consumed all day, every day, along with GETTING ENGAGED! Woo hoo!!!

Although in the midst of all the busyness and fun, I was able to make just a tad bit of progress and I'm really really hoping I can complete this project this week... hopefully (fingers crossed).

So I did get a new sound board, and I have decided to keep it powered with the 2 AA battery pack Valor supplied with his kit, rather than using the 12v to 3 v convertor. I don;t want to risk the sound board getting fried again, even if it means more batteries and on/off switches to worry about now.

One of the biggest steps of progress I made was deciding how to reconfigure the light and speaker setup.
So as mentioned earlier in the thread, I decided to keep the 12v LEDs Valor supplied, however, in trying to figure out how and where to place my speaker in the pack, with the fan being in the way, I decided to put the speakers where the rocket would naturally have the sound coming from... the actual rockets!
So I found some speakers that would look like they would be a part of a rocket and ordered larger diameter LED rings to fit around them within the rockets.
I will wire the speakers in parallel to ensure the correct impedance for the amp.

The next hurdle to face is where to place the battery packs. Originally I wanted them outside the pack on the back to allow for easy on/off switching while being displayed, and for ease of recharging and battery replacement, but in looking at pictures of me wearing the pack, the back is still visible where I would place the batteries, so now I am figuring out where to logistically place them inside. I might make the top portion of the pack either affix by magnets or velcro to allow for easy removal and access to the batteries and on/off switches for them (if that all makes sense).

Let me know if you have any thoughts!

Here are the speakers I am using...
IMG_1133.JPG

Here is a speaker mounted inside a rocket...
IMG_1163.JPG

The speakers and larger 10 cm LED rings installed within the rockets...
IMG_1215.JPG

The back of my pack with amp on/off switch and volume control installed for easy access...
(along with power port for 12v battery, which I may place inside now)
(all using pre-existing holes from how the pack was with it's original electrical setup)
IMG_1258.JPG

How my internals appear as of now...
IMG_1257.JPG
 

propmaster2000

Sr Member
The project looks like it is moving right along.
Those are some nice speakers.

Maybe when your pack is on display at home, you can connect a good stereo system to the rockets
and play music.. :)
You'd get some good sound out of those gems.
With the light rings and speakers in place, it looks like that thing could take off.
Nice job....
Can't wait to see the video of the working lights and sound :)

Post when you can.
Have a good day.
 

Valor

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I love the look of the speaker cones in the bell of the rockets. Brilliant! If you prefer to disguise them further, you can hit them with a light coat of matt black primer. I've done that many times and it doesn't affect the sound.
 

RJMonette88

Active Member
I love the look of the speaker cones in the bell of the rockets. Brilliant! If you prefer to disguise them further, you can hit them with a light coat of matt black primer. I've done that many times and it doesn't affect the sound.

Great info to know! Thanks Steve!!
 

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