Methinks he's comparing it with the movies...
Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
Methinks he's comparing it with the movies...
Ronan87
Sr Member
Woah... can't compare TV Show budget vs Big Blockbuster budget...
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
ABC Picks Up ?Marvel?s Agents of SHIELD? for Full Season | Variety
AoS is doing well in ratings and just got picked up for a full 22 episode season.
Maybe now they will open it up a little. The show is still in its infancy, but I think it's off to a great start. Definitely something worth building on!
AoS is doing well in ratings and just got picked up for a full 22 episode season.
Maybe now they will open it up a little. The show is still in its infancy, but I think it's off to a great start. Definitely something worth building on!
Watched Ep 03. I think I am done. The characters continue to be absolutely cookie cutter and without any depth what-so-ever. Coulson had heart in the movie and continues to be interrsting here, but the rest of the cast are utterly disposable and I can't bear to watch them slowly but surely follow predictably boring "character arcs." I might watch one more episode for the sake of Patrick's props... but even those aren't saving this pretty-people show.
The Rock-a-who
Well-Known Member
Oh crap, I didn't even connect that.
cboath
Master Member
Moreso the time constriction as opposed to the budget.
Movie = 2hrs, and the FX company gets 6-12 months to do all the effects.
TV show = 22 episodes a year is about 18 hours of airtime for which there's a total of 8ish months to do all the effects. That means they get to devote - maybe - 2 weeks to the fx for each episode. And that's providing they have two weeks from the end of shooting of the ep until they have to be completely done with their portion of things.
I think the reason many are disappointed is because of what has come before that’s been of a very similar ilk. The first series of “Heroes” had a compelling story arch and characters. “Alphas” at least HAD superheroes in their team that were interesting human beings in their own right. And “Torchwood” had some very weirdly entertaining and unpredictable storylines. “Warehouse 13” was funnier, cleverer and far more inventive ,with ALOT of things AOS seems to steal from ie Centipede very similar to Saracens Spine , Gravitonium etc.
So far this series has brought absolutely zilch to the table in terms of being new or different . Its just adequate entertainment, somewhat the “Deep Space Nine” of the Marvel universe and considerably over hyped because of its connections to it. And that’s bound to cause a lot of dissatisfaction from viewers who have already been well conditioned to a lot of “superhuman” tv shows which had more engaging casts of characters and better storylines. Sometimes its tough to be the last contestant on to the dance floor. Everybody else has seen the moves.
I don’t hate it but it just barely manages to hold my interest. Take episode three. Great start, although I’ll admit I was waiting for Magneto to walk out into the middle of the road after the first car was flung up in the air. And then it was rapidly downhill from there. I got bored with its predictability so I started to pull it to pieces.
Skyeyeliner and the Scientwits - please, please let one of them be the first to die when Joss pulls his famous “lets kill a character” moment in the series finale (and that may no longer be an option for them but read on for that). One of the twits is at least a spare, so I’d off “Scotty” just for the sheer awfulness of the shirts he wears. Any of them wears red now then they’re probably a goner ,though Skye did look particularly fetching in her pink party dress , but I almost expected her to start doing her nails during the Gravitonium lecture, she looked that disinterested. The perfection of her amazingly even spray tan and hair alone are special effects in themselves. Speaking of which I thought these were generally miles and miles better in this episode than any of the acting.
And the writing. Model Agencies cake/brother confession was so corny I could have baked another cake with it (and so they did again at the end with the Skye “moment“). And Ming Na’s broken “I don’t want to do fieldwork” record is grating now, even down to the complete reversal for no apparent reason at the end. Has she actually been filmed with any expression other than shell shocked depression on her face yet?
Annoyingly they just keep redirecting the Coulson Regeneration theories with a slightly different take each episode presumably to “fan the flames” of media discussion. First he can never know, then its definitely a magical place, and now he’s NOT so rusty that he apparently knows whats been done to him to effect his muscle memory. This kind of misdirection was getting old six series after “Lost” was done, so its getting positively prehistoric now. And tiresome. Which brings me to the perhaps why this series has possibly introduced the greatest potentially flaw and own goal into the Marvel universe of all and if you hadn’t already guest, why I would have preferred they’d never done it at all.
Now they have managed to have brought back such a minor character as Coulson (how ever much we liked him) back from the dead, unless they come up with A SUFFICENTLY CLEVER and ORIGINAL explanation as to why this is a “one off” ,then no matter who dies in the rest of the entire series ,be it film or television, friend or enemy , their “regeneration” is always a distinct possibility. Which renders any sacrifice made by any character in the future of the franchise emotionally pointless in any storyline, as all the fans will immediately say “Well they brought Coulson back ,why not them?” It already makes the whole death scene in “The Avengers” seem rather hollow and pointless and renders the effect of grief on the rest of them negligible any time,any where. Why get upset over anyone’s noble sacrifice for anything when they can apparently get resurrected quicker than *****? And that is a huge problem for any story to bear.
It’s a pretty horrible corner to have painted the entire franchise into and one I’m not sure they will ever be able to adequately explain away without a monumental effort.
So far this series has brought absolutely zilch to the table in terms of being new or different . Its just adequate entertainment, somewhat the “Deep Space Nine” of the Marvel universe and considerably over hyped because of its connections to it. And that’s bound to cause a lot of dissatisfaction from viewers who have already been well conditioned to a lot of “superhuman” tv shows which had more engaging casts of characters and better storylines. Sometimes its tough to be the last contestant on to the dance floor. Everybody else has seen the moves.
I don’t hate it but it just barely manages to hold my interest. Take episode three. Great start, although I’ll admit I was waiting for Magneto to walk out into the middle of the road after the first car was flung up in the air. And then it was rapidly downhill from there. I got bored with its predictability so I started to pull it to pieces.
Skyeyeliner and the Scientwits - please, please let one of them be the first to die when Joss pulls his famous “lets kill a character” moment in the series finale (and that may no longer be an option for them but read on for that). One of the twits is at least a spare, so I’d off “Scotty” just for the sheer awfulness of the shirts he wears. Any of them wears red now then they’re probably a goner ,though Skye did look particularly fetching in her pink party dress , but I almost expected her to start doing her nails during the Gravitonium lecture, she looked that disinterested. The perfection of her amazingly even spray tan and hair alone are special effects in themselves. Speaking of which I thought these were generally miles and miles better in this episode than any of the acting.
And the writing. Model Agencies cake/brother confession was so corny I could have baked another cake with it (and so they did again at the end with the Skye “moment“). And Ming Na’s broken “I don’t want to do fieldwork” record is grating now, even down to the complete reversal for no apparent reason at the end. Has she actually been filmed with any expression other than shell shocked depression on her face yet?
Annoyingly they just keep redirecting the Coulson Regeneration theories with a slightly different take each episode presumably to “fan the flames” of media discussion. First he can never know, then its definitely a magical place, and now he’s NOT so rusty that he apparently knows whats been done to him to effect his muscle memory. This kind of misdirection was getting old six series after “Lost” was done, so its getting positively prehistoric now. And tiresome. Which brings me to the perhaps why this series has possibly introduced the greatest potentially flaw and own goal into the Marvel universe of all and if you hadn’t already guest, why I would have preferred they’d never done it at all.
Now they have managed to have brought back such a minor character as Coulson (how ever much we liked him) back from the dead, unless they come up with A SUFFICENTLY CLEVER and ORIGINAL explanation as to why this is a “one off” ,then no matter who dies in the rest of the entire series ,be it film or television, friend or enemy , their “regeneration” is always a distinct possibility. Which renders any sacrifice made by any character in the future of the franchise emotionally pointless in any storyline, as all the fans will immediately say “Well they brought Coulson back ,why not them?” It already makes the whole death scene in “The Avengers” seem rather hollow and pointless and renders the effect of grief on the rest of them negligible any time,any where. Why get upset over anyone’s noble sacrifice for anything when they can apparently get resurrected quicker than *****? And that is a huge problem for any story to bear.
It’s a pretty horrible corner to have painted the entire franchise into and one I’m not sure they will ever be able to adequately explain away without a monumental effort.
Last edited:
JD
Master Member
Part of me thinks it's Joss Whedon, have some faith... this is all a set up to the "big picture."
Even if it's not, it's a fun show... I think expectations are a little too high. It hasn't been great, but it hasn't been a huge giant suckfest, either. It does have that cheezy Sy Fy feeling to it at times.
Even if it's not, it's a fun show... I think expectations are a little too high. It hasn't been great, but it hasn't been a huge giant suckfest, either. It does have that cheezy Sy Fy feeling to it at times.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
I love DS9! I like it better than TNG or any of the others.
Coulson is definitely not himself, so I wouldn't say nothing was lost when he died. Something is very morbid when any of the characters mention it.
I think the show is great, and I only see it getting better. I love the connections with the rest of the Marvel Universe, but the show stands on its own. I do wish the characters were a little deeper, but that will come with time. I'm sure with 22 episodes, each character will be focused on. New characters will probably be introduced, and some may die. I don't think whatever happened with Coulson is the cure for death.
Gigatron
Sr Member
I think the real problem with the show is the fact that it takes something that most people like (The Avengers), and focuses on the most boring aspect of it.
Imagine if there was a James bond spin-off, like "Agents of MI 6". At first you'd be excited, because even though you knew it wouldn't follow the exploits of 007, you'd get to see other agents in action. But then, it turns out that the show focuses on the accounting department. And every week they try to reconcile their billing, before the end of the fiscal year. Like one episode is about trying to figure out why 007 has a $20k hotel bill, for a 3 day stay. Or why Q submitted an R&D ticket for a 5 million dollar pen.
It lures you in with the promise of being about the international spy business, and name drops every third line (" M told Q to give Bond the keys to the Aston Martin"), but that really seems to be its only connection to the main attraction.
With M: AoS, I'm almost expecting people to just sit around a table, just spouting names of the Avengers and/or villains. Entire conversations could be held, just name dropping: " Captain America?" "Hulk, Thor, black canary, Hulk" "Thor, Iron Man, Thor, Thor" "Hahaha Hawkeye, Loki" .
-Fred
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
It isn't called "The Avengers TV Show." It's called "Agents of SHIELD." There are only mentions of the Avengers because it's not about the Avengers, its about SHIELD.
Atomic Punk
Active Member
I liked it from the start and think it's getting better--if for no other reason than Skye in the wet pink dress.
Gigatron
Sr Member
That's great, but without the Avengers, what is SHIELD, really? Not much of anything. When active, the Avengers ARE agents of SHIELD, working under SHIELD directives. The guys that clean the toilets, are agents of SHIELD as well - should they get their own show? I get that this is a show about the non-Avengers aspect of SHIELD. But the non-Avengers aspect of SHIELD is boring and, to be completely honest, a bit shallow.
Since you ignored my James Bond comparison, which completely explains why that, just because some things are somehow connected, it doesn't make those off-shoot things, interesting.
Or how about a real-life example; in New York, the police, 911 operators, and the civilians that scrub the toilets at police precincts, are ALL members of NYPD. They all go through the same hiring and background checks (I know, I'm part of the system). Now, if there was a show called "Agents of the NYPD", wouldn't you be a little disappointed if the show were about the maintenance crew, instead of the police?
-Fred
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Sorry
I do not think your analogy fits. In this case, I wouldn't equate SHIELD agents to the accounting department of MI6. They would be more like the other members of MI6 that you referred to.
I'll make sure not to ignore this one.
I don't think this one fits either. The show isn't called janitors of SHIELD, its Agents of SHIELD. You are seeing actual agents who go out and do stuff.
I think you need to read up on the history of SHIELD. I don't think you have an appreciation of who they are, how long they have been around, or what they have done.
If the show isn't for you, no big deal, not everyone likes the same things, but I think SHIELD is a bigger deal within the Marvel Universe than you give them credit for.
Last edited:
Those analogys are the most in appropriate placed pieces of text iv ever read. If james bonds the avengers. Hows agents of shield toilet scrubbers. No sense. What so ever.... an analogy is only useful if its used correctly. N/O to the poster of course.
J
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
I personally feel, the most important thing to mention, is that in all the responses to post #331, no one has jumped on the mention of Black Canary in a Marvel show.:eek
firesprite
Master Member
Gigatron
Sr Member
You're absolutely correct on this account - my knowledge of SHIELD, starts with Iron Man (movie), and ends with The Avengers (movie). Outside of that, it doesn't really matter to me, what their backstory is.
And this is what should be the huge defining difference between a primetime network show, and an over-budgeted fan flic on SyFy. A network show has to realize that a good portion of the people watching this show, may have only become casually interested because of the Avengers movie. These are people that are going to say "hey, the Avengers movie was pretty cool. Now I'll watch the Agents of SHIELD.". Most people aren't going to run out and read up on 60 years of backstory in the comics. If it were a series on SyFy, it would be a pretty safe bet that the core audience has been aware of SHIELD since their first appearance in the comics. But then, the demographics would be a much smaller group.
So, what the guys at M: AoS did, was approach the network and say "Hey, we're going to capitalize on the popularity of the Avengers, without stepping on anyone's toes, by not bringing in any Avengers, or possible movie plot points". The execs had dollar sign in their eyes, without realizing that what they were agreeing to, was a show about the most boring aspect of the movie. To the "New to super heroes" crowd, AoS isn't going to build momentum for the next movie. And I could almost guarantee that's pretty much what the whole pitch for this show, was about - getting non-comic / super hero people excited about the next movie.
In all honesty, I get what the show is trying to do - expand on the background of SHIELD, outside of the Avengers Initiative. But it is a hell of a task to make clerical work seem interesting - especially when you're purposefully trying not to introduce any heroes or villains (or at least major ones). They've intentionally painted themselves into a corner. The show has to work with established background, and it can only go as far as the next movie. Kind of like "Clone Wars: The animated series" - except CW:TAS's only boundaries was that it had to start after episode II, and end before episode III. But it could create and kill any new enemies in the interim. AoS seems to be handcuffed in that department.
Now, on a different track, all together - does AoS exist in the real world (with the exception of Thor, Loki, and Hulk) - i.e. is everyone else normal, and subject to real-world physics, or can we plan on seeing freak of the week vampires, fairies and aliens? Because if this is real-world type of stuff, the whole "fighting greedy corporate types, and some virtual super computer hacker squad", is going to run out of steam, pretty quickly - no matter how many tesseract doo-dads they find.
-Fred
Similar threads
