Marie Antoinette (1938) "Rocket" gown-Cosplay or historic recreation?

[mdb]

#marieantoinette Actual hoop size as these are indeed oval. I gave up trying to wear them in the house. And putting the 11 hoops in as well as clean them took a lot out of me.by pinkdiamond, on Flickr

#marieantoinette hoops showing internal tapes. Yep this is a big project! by pinkdiamond, on Flickr


To check how much lace I'll need I pinned it directly onto the hoops. Funnily enough the hoops sit so much better now with the steels in double rows than double up in sing rows! They also happen to divide the skirt up into nice proportions to test the swags on.

#marieantoinette lace testing frontby pinkdiamond, on Flickr

#marieantoinette lace testing back. I used 19 yards so far, just ordered another lot. Oh, I forgot the flounce. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I'll need about 9 yards for that. Might see if I can find something wider. by pinkdiamond, on Flickr

 

[lmgill]

Very nice. If you are not acquainted with Janet Arnold, You should look for here reference books. They are quite good. They show in detail construction techniques of the period as well as patterns.
https://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Fashion-Englishwomens-Construction-1660-1860/dp/089676026X

 

[mdb]

I've known about Arnold, Waugh, Payne, et al since the early 90s In fact I am teaching a series of workshops on Victorian draping and drafting in a few weeks

Marie Antoinette is a beautiful film that managed to in some ways, in some garments, improve on the originals. Most I love for being so very theatrical, but a this gown is on its own merits something spectacularly not right yet I prefer it to even the nicest silver court gown I know of
https://nz.pinterest.com/michaeladebruce/18thc-robe-de-cour/
Thanks to Payne and Arnold there are at least two patterns of these silver Robes de Cour, and there are a few other extreme pannier out there. In fact I used Payne for the base of my own pannier in her pattern of the Louisa Ulrika gown. The Sophia coronation gown (as opposed to wedding gown) is my favourite, and that is the one Arnold published in Costume complete with line art and pattern.
I need to get more of her articles now that I have better interloan. Got some lovely articles from the Met that way too. Some are now on their site (such as the Kimberly gown).
I really want my own copy of Payne too. The first edition has patterns not seen elsewhere but the publisher decided to not reprint them in the second edition. Oh look, whoops. I found an auction for a reasonable prices edition....

So I am instead immersed in books I know would have been available at the time and that includes Kohler, Talbot Hughes- all of which I likewise have been familiar with since the early 90s. And trying to use technique appropriate to that.


After much bad luck I have found a lace that is light enough yet drapes and is able to be cut into smaller appliques as well as continuous lengths. Perfect? No. But it's been a year of looking I have spent 15 years looking for trim for the Moulin Rouge wedding dress and I don't want to keep doing that to myself!

 

[joberg]

Glad to see that the project is still going! Eager to see your next update

 

[mdb]

It's been a bit of a tough year, multiple reasons. But I'm working on this again. Got the stays sewn up, and I just need to get the boning in. I really want some of the good german plastic boning I have used in the past but can only find something called the same thing but it's not at all the same. It looks like alternating lines of transluscent and opaque plastic.
And am currently debating if the lace is actually okay or if I need to spend another year looking for better lace!

Oh and I do have my own copy of Blanche Payne's History of Costume as per my wish above. The first edition is well worth hunting down for the patterns.

Just messaging a seller of some lace now. I may have to see if I can part with my current lace. It's just a step too heavy for this project though it is very lightweight in reality.

 

[mdb]

Okay, I have the steel boning I need (15mm wide by 0.97mm thick) but...

My hands literally come apart* trying to use the snips supplied so I am going to measure everything to match the plastic boning I used and get a friend to use bolt cutters to crush-cut and I'll be investing in an angle grinder to tidy the corners. My dremel *might( work but with no guard and quite thin discs I might be best this way.

I can't even cut the boning for the corset (7mmx0.9mm) so I have found some nice solid cable ties to stand in while I cut the stays down to size. I will need help and I should at least make sure the boning is the right height.

But I did manage to join the lace I have into a 10m length.so I think I will have enough if I also buy a length I have been eyeing up as it can bordered the two rows of swags. I have enough for the hem (a different part of the lace) and as I do know the base tulle I can be confident the laces will blend really well.

This is the reverse of my first join. My hand is between the two layers so I could clip this piece to follow my joining stitches.

This is using a short need to repair the thread used to hold the original beads by following the line of joining stitches.

This is the front that shows the join from the front. I used a silver thread of the same weight as the embroidery thread. I used a pair of blunt osed scissors to trim the excess net seen in the join line below. This protects the stitching from being clipped too easily.

Hopefully more photos as I find them. I'm sorting my harddrives for all my costume progress photos and it is such a mess. All my research files too.

*No lie. It's painful and creepy at the same time. Ever pulled a finger out of the scoket to "crack" a knuckle? It's like that but with additional creepy noises and feelings factors.

 

[joberg]

This project will be hard to beat

 

[mdb]

Thank you

The extra lace has been ordered, it's currently in a plane somewhere between New Zealand and the US.

Also my friend cut my steel for me (the hoop steel not yet the corset as I need to measure it all properly. So this meant I was able to sew the tapes into the hoops to keep the elliptical shape And this meant I was able to drape the lace I have to work out how much more is needed.

This is 10m of lace and really handily the repeat makes it very easy to work out how much is needed:
1) The hem is a simple gathered length, so long as it fits over the 4m hem it's all good.
2) the lower most swag works out to being three repeats
3) the next lowest uses 6 repeats.
4) the top most pannier drapery might be squeezed out of what is left over but I am instead switching what I have as the hem below, and using some of the new lace for that.
5) not pictured. There is a double edged drapery around the upper half that uses about 16m alone! There are five loops of about the same size- I have estimated 1m each side each loop- and two deeper loops at the back- I have estimated 1.5m per side.

The petticoat above is unfortunately too rough to use so I have also cut and am assembling a ruffled petticoat from cotton bobbinet:

And as I have the hoops I am also making my own Fairy Godmother dress heavily influence by the Glinda bubble gowns.

That is 33m or 36 yards of opal organza fabric that will make most of the petticoat layer. People who have made the Cinderella movie gown will know exactly how that far that fabric will go I do have about 10m of white opal organza fabric and will continue to look for tulles to go with it.

And there will be butterflies and rhinestones and more

 

[joberg]

Great work with the lace; being originally from Brussels, Belgium I know a bit about "dentelle", either from Brussels, Brugge or Mechlin...keep up the great job: it'll be the bomb when finished

 

[mdb]

Thank you I'm half Dutch, for those not from here yes different Opa's side mostly from Nijmegen and Arnhem, Oma from all over And my research focus is in Nordrhein-Westfalen (so right next to Gelderland) which has lead to being obsessed with the embroidery books by Quentel et al. Interestingly it is theorised that bobbin lace orgininated as passementrei and there are a lot of records from Koeln that refer to the guild or as applied decoration. And being Koeln a lot of it is gold or silver! And there is alllllll the gold work (embroidery and women and knitted/knotted.)


So this year is full of metal lace of all kinds

This being embroidered net sits in an interesting category Also of course it's modern It is a mix of machine embroidery (chain stitch) and hand applied beads and sequins. The thread holding the beads is quite heavy which is great. When it invariably snags on itself the thread can be easily worked back into place and it doesn't snap.

The extra lace has arrived and while it is not a perfect match it is going to blend. Some of the sequins are a bluish tinted silver while the beads and net is al nicely aged in tone which matches my silk

I am in a bit of a pickle. Am waiting for carpal tunnel surgery on both hands. So I'm stepping away from my obsessive research topic (Anne of Cleves- thus the Nordrhein research) and going to start work on this again so I can switch to the research while recovering

 

[joberg]

Oh yes, know quite a lot about the regions you've named and their lace work; my family originated from the Limburgh region of the "Three Borders": Belgium, Holland and Germany! Eager to see your next update

 

[mdb]

Update is... no sewing for a while- probably a few months. First of the two carpal tunnel release surgeries done. Physio starts next week and stitches come out then so there might be a few weeks after that but I also see my surgeon in 6-8 weeks so might be back on the list to get my other hand done asap now that we know for sure it's urgent.
My nerve was flattened apparently. At least it wasn't worse!

 

[joberg]

Good news! I wish you all the best in your recovery; don't over do it