Lucasfilm to Strike Back March 7th - Lucasfilm vs Andrew Ainsworth

[Brian Muir]

Here is what I am going to add on Brian and his contributions, not only to Star Wars, but to here. He is WILLING to put himself to our questions and answer them to the best of his knowledge. Others have "sources", but those "sources" will never come forward, so it is hard to accept their word, second hand. That goes a long way in regards to integrity.

Thank you for your support Qui. Granted there are times where sources have to be protected as it could affect their employment but this is a very different topic.

Quoted from Gino" But I am saying that I think there is the possibility that Liz did not sculpt the final helmet and also that Brian may not have solely sculpted the entire set of trooper armor and vader items without additional assistance. I believe there is a potential for there to be an exaggeration of role/credit much like the way that AA is doing so.
It is entirely possible that she and he did exactly as was stated, but as I said above, I personally need more to feel definitive about it.
Some people already have their minds made up. I just think that people should remain somewhat open.[/B]"

Gino is now trying to put the seed of doubt about my total involvement in sculpting the Stormtrooper armour and now even Vader!!! I would love to hear any information he has regarding sculpting on the production :confused

 

[Art Andrews]

Here is what I am going to add on Brian and his contributions, not only to Star Wars, but to here. He is WILLING to put himself to our questions and answer them to the best of his knowledge. Others have "sources", but those "sources" will never come forward, so it is hard to accept their word, second hand. That goes a long way in regards to integrity.

Very well said. The fact that Brian is willing to come here and be questioned and provide answers to those quetions openly says a LOT about his character and his position. Very commendable and also gives an additional sense of truth and honesty to what he says since he is subjecting himself to a level of criticism that he really doesn't have to put up with. Kudos, Brian. :thumbsup

 

[Brian Muir]

Credit, especially for characters as iconic as the stormtrooper and vader, is a highly valuable thing. In terms of career prestige as well as potentially monetarily.

And while I don't believe AA sculpted the helmet/armor, I'm not entirely prepared to believe (without some photo or recorded documents) that two single people (one deceased) were entirely responsible for these particular sculpts especially when there is potentially something very valuable to gain.
Without anyone else stepping up to contest, it all seems very convenient to me.
I'm not saying for certain that is or is not the case, but I'm saying I'm not prepared to believe either scenario hook line and sinker.

And for the record, I do believe that everything about these characters in any form whether they be concept drawings, molds, toolings, finished costumes are an art form, and all rights and control to them should solely reside with LFL.
To think otherwise in my opinion is just absurd.


.

Gino I am stating categorically that I sculpted the Stormtrooper armour, Vader, Death Star Droid, CZ3 and carved C3P0 in plaster. I have always given credit to all the other people involved in the production and have never overplayed my part.

You are also insinuating that I state this for career prestige and monetary gain!!! The only reason I state it is because it is the TRUTH. It's unfortunate that this does not suit you but it's a FACT!!


Again Gino I am asking - are you calling me a liar?

 

[Brian Muir]

Very well said. The fact that Brian is willing to come here and be questioned and provide answers to those quetions openly says a LOT about his character and his position. Very commendable and also gives an additional sense of truth and honesty to what he says since he is subjecting himself to a level of criticism that he really doesn't have to put up with. Kudos, Brian. :thumbsup

I appreciate that Art but now Gino's overstepped the boundaries - there's skeptisism or an open and enquiring mind and then there's someone who is now insinuating that I am a liar not only regarding the Stormtrooper armour but also Vader.

I'm still waiting for his answer or will he do his usual and hide until the heat's off?

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

Hello Brian,

I think what Gino implied in his remark about your and Liz´ involvement was that he doubts that you two were the only ones involved in the artistical creation of the characters, the atual physical creation of the process removed.

This implies that you two may have had Art Directors or even GL himself, giving you direct orders about how to create the sculptures, and that the art direction may have had a great influence on the end product, minimizing the creative influence of the artist/sculptor in the process.

I can´t remember if this was talked about, since I am not as informed as I´d like to be about the whole issue, but I am sure that it has been mentioned before who the art director was that you worked with.

I am sure that everyone who has worked in the movie industry at one point or the other knows that an art director has or wants to take only a somewhat limited active influence in such items as props. Why? BECAUSE MOVIE MAKING IS A RUSH JOB !!!

With a twelve-fourteen-sixteen hour day an art director (at least today, especially on smaller budget movies, which SW was at the time) has not the time to get as involved as he´d like to, and when he has professionals working for him, then that´s a huge relief for him, and he trusts them. And more than one person working on a project means and always meant: greater persomnell costs!!!

There are the presentations to the director, and the AD or whoever helped may have looked into the workshop from time to time, but that´s it.

Brian, can you describe your day to day business on the production, or point me into the direction of where I can find a description? How was the connection to the Art Directors Guild in the days? What were union regulations for work? Did you get a crew list, and if so and still have it, could you post it?

I think with the help of the crew list we can reconstruct pretty much how many people could have worked on the project or are even listed, and I am sure that we won´t see more than two or three people for England.

Michael

 

[GINO]

Again Gino I am asking - are you calling me a liar?

If you read my posts, you would see that I am not calling you a liar.
At the same time for me personally (based on multiple factors that I'm not going to go into because it would be misunderstood as a personal attack), I am not ready to completely acknowledge what you have said as total fact regarding the way the entire process went down.

I am prepared to believe everything you have said, just as equally as I am prepared to believe alternative scenarios.
I personally need more than what I have seen to take an official stance either way.

I thought I was clear about that.


.

 

[Larry Young]

I don't know where you are from or how you were raised, Gino, but "I am not ready to completely acknowledge what you have said as total fact" equals "I don't believe you" equals "You're lying" to me, just with more dissembling.

 

[ghostryder]

Little tiresome feeling I have to justify myself but as this is a public forum it has to be done.

Not to me you don't. And I'm pretty sure not to most.

 

[Brian Muir]

Hello Brian,

I think what Gino implied in his remark about your and Liz´ involvement was that he doubts that you two were the only ones involved in the artistical creation of the characters, the atual physical creation of the process removed.

This implies that you two may have had Art Directors or even GL himself, giving you direct orders about how to create the sculptures, and that the art direction may have had a great influence on the end product, minimizing the creative influence of the artist/sculptor in the process.

I can´t remember if this was talked about, since I am not as informed as I´d like to be about the whole issue, but I am sure that it has been mentioned before who the art director was that you worked with.

I am sure that everyone who has worked in the movie industry at one point or the other knows that an art director has or wants to take only a somewhat limited active influence in such items as props. Why? BECAUSE MOVIE MAKING IS A RUSH JOB !!!

With a twelve-fourteen-sixteen hour day an art director (at least today, especially on smaller budget movies, which SW was at the time) has not the time to get as involved as he´d like to, and when he has professionals working for him, then that´s a huge relief for him, and he trusts them. And more than one person working on a project means and always meant: greater persomnell costs!!!

There are the presentations to the director, and the AD or whoever helped may have looked into the workshop from time to time, but that´s it.

Brian, can you describe your day to day business on the production, or point me into the direction of where I can find a description? How was the connection to the Art Directors Guild in the days? What were union regulations for work? Did you get a crew list, and if so and still have it, could you post it?

I think with the help of the crew list we can reconstruct pretty much how many people could have worked on the project or are even listed, and I am sure that we won´t see more than two or three people for England.

Michael

With respect Michael I have given all the details about the production on this site and others with the involvement of all the crew from George Lucas down to the plasterers.

Gino knows exactly what he's saying.

Lucasfilm themselves did not have a crew list so why would you think I would have one? And a crew list proves what? It does not give any idea of who worked on what and to what extent.


If you would like to read it in more detail you are welcome to buy a copy of my book ' In the Shadow of Vader'

 

[Brian Muir]

I think this is clear enough - it distinctly says sculpting

As per Gino :-

" Brian may not have solely sculpted the entire set of trooper armor and vader items without additional assistance. I believe there is a potential for there to be an exaggeration of role/credit much like the way that AA is doing so."

 

[Too Much Garlic]

We all know that art directors and the director has the final word and can make changes. That doesn't take away from the person who actually sculpted the damn thing. What is this argument about? Someone saying, "Put an extra ridge there!", "Make the mouth extend more!", what? Unless someone else physically manipulated the clay sculpture, the sculptor responsible is STILL the SCULPTOR of the piece.

Supervisors and creative advisers CANNOT lay claim to a sculpt. Not even the director unless he threw clay on it and shaped it around.

I thought EVERYONE knew and understood that concept. But I guess some art directors/advisers want to overplay they part in the creation of sculpts. We've seen that done several times here on the RPF as well, where people who haven't even touched the clay of the sculpt claims to have helped sculpting it. DEPLORABLE.

 

[Brian Muir]

If you read my posts, you would see that I am not calling you a liar.
At the same time for me personally (based on multiple factors that I'm not going to go into because it would be misunderstood as a personal attack), I am not ready to completely acknowledge what you have said as total fact regarding the way the entire process went down.

I am prepared to believe everything you have said, just as equally as I am prepared to believe alternative scenarios.
I personally need more than what I have seen to take an official stance either way.

I thought I was clear about that.


.

Oh yes I certainly had read your posts unfortunately


You started this slur Gino.


" Brian may not have solely sculpted the entire set of trooper armor and vader items without additional assistance. I believe there is a potential for there to be an exaggeration of role/credit much like the way that AA is doing so."

What does this mean then? You definitely say I may not have sculpted the armour and Vader without additional assistance. I've told you I did and I know I did cos I was there and did it. So what the hell are you talking about. You say you won't go on as it could be seen as a personal attack but what the hell are you playing at? If you got something to say - say it and stop playing your mind games.

 

[Brian Muir]

We all know that art directors and the director has the final word and can make changes. That doesn't take away from the person who actually sculpted the damn thing. What is this argument about? Someone saying, "Put an extra ridge there!", "Make the mouth extend more!", what? Unless someone else physically manipulated the clay sculpture, the sculptor responsible is STILL the SCULPTOR of the piece.

Supervisors and creative advisers CANNOT lay claim to a sculpt. Not even the director unless he threw clay on it and shaped it around.

I thought EVERYONE knew and understood that concept. But I guess some art directors/advisers want to overplay they part in the creation of sculpts. We've seen that done several times here on the RPF as well, where people who haven't even touched the clay of the sculpt claims to have helped sculpting it. DEPLORABLE.

Thanks for input your TMG.

Exactly when did I ever lay claim to anything I didn't do. I mentioned every crew member and their input. No-one other than me touched the clay and sculpted the Stormtrooper armour and Vader helmet and armour. Changes were suggested by John Barry in the clay stage and those changes to the clay were then done by me.

Gino is NOT mentioning any input by the art department he is stating that I may not have sculpted the Stormtrooper armour and Vader without assistance.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

With respect Michael I have given all the details about the production on this site and others with the involvement of all the crew from George Lucas down to the plasterers.

No disrespect meant, Brian, just wanted to have this confirmed, I wouldn´t have thought it being any differently.

Lucasfilm themselves did not have a crew list so why would you think I would have one? And a crew list proves what? It does not give any idea of who worked on what and to what extent.

This would have just been another "proof" for everyone who isn´t happy with just taking your word on the whole issue, but since the details on crew and collaborators have been extensively covered on IMDB and the SW historians, professional as well as hobbyists, it´s nothing more than a nice addition.

If you would like to read it in more detail you are welcome to buy a copy of my book ' In the Shadow of Vader'

I have it already in multiple copies (makes a great gift ) but did not have the time yet to read it. But looks like I´ll flip through it in the near future

 

[Too Much Garlic]

And if Brian Muir was working with an agenda to overplay his importance he would have claimed the Stormtrooper helmet as HIS, not giving credit to someone else. That fact alone just doesn't match up with someone trying to bolster his/her own involvement on a project. Makes no sense. Doubters will always doubt and spread doubt.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

You can't spread doubt if no one believes the doubt you are trying to spread. Too many things point to Brian doing all of this work, and like I said earlier, these things look like they could have been relatively easy for him.

As an acquaintance of Gino's, I am VERY ashamed of what he is saying here. I'll put it out there.

 

[Brian Muir]

No disrespect meant, Brian, just wanted to have this confirmed, I wouldn´t have thought it being any differently.



This would have just been another "proof" for everyone who isn´t happy with just taking your word on the whole issue, but since the details on crew and collaborators have been extensively covered on IMDB and the SW historians, professional as well as hobbyists, it´s nothing more than a nice addition.



I have it already in multiple copies (makes a great gift ) but did not have the time yet to read it. But looks like I´ll flip through it in the near future

Well I hope you get the time to at least read the Star Wars chapter, although the book is written to lead you from one chapter to the next. You will see that I have given credit to the whole team responsible for creating Vader and the Stormtroopers. It also has a chapter on the Ainsworth court case which made for an interesting chapter.

Gino has his own voice and I don't think his thoughts and opinions have to be translated by others - with the greatest respect - his words are here for all to see.

He implies and makes snide comments trying to give people that little seed of doubt - for what reason? Again pertaining to have more knowledge than he actually has to make people believe there is more to it than there is.

There is no more proof - everything that was available was brought up in court. I have subsequently talked to plasterers who worked on the production and had my facts confirmed and a few more facts revealed.

I find it disgusting that he can just imply what he likes for no valid reason and get away with it - again

 

[Brian Muir]

You can't spread doubt if no one believes the doubt you are trying to spread. Too many things point to Brian doing all of this work, and like I said earlier, these things look like they could have been relatively easy for him.

As an acquaintance of Gino's, I am VERY ashamed of what he is saying here. I'll put it out there.

Again thank you Qui - for people that are not informed (people buying from Ainsworth for example) it can carry some weight as Gino does put himself up as an 'expert'. Unfortunately like the petulant child in the class he gets so much wasted attention.

 

[Apollo]

You know in some way you have to take the bad for the good on some forums especially with this one Brian I know it can be terribly frustrating and insulting.

I, as I am sure many others, want to thank you for putting up with the BS and hope it does not limit your input here.

I find it disgusting that he can just imply what he likes for no valid reason and get away with it - again

 

[Brian Muir]

At the same time for me personally (based on multiple factors that I'm not going to go into because it would be misunderstood as a personal attack), I am not ready to completely acknowledge what you have said as total fact regarding the way the entire process went down..

You have NO knowledge of what ANY individual did on the production at Elstree regarding SCULPTING Vader and Stormtrooper armour and to suggest that you know something shows that again your arrogance has no bounds.

You may be in the habit of taking credit for other people's work but I am NOT. You again glibly link my name with Ainsworth but if there is anyone who shows the same traits as Ainsworth of overplaying their part I think you should take a look in the mirror.