Lucasfilm to Strike Back March 7th - Lucasfilm vs Andrew Ainsworth
- Thread starter Supa troop
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geordietrooper
Sr Member
:lol nice one art
can anyone remember seeing the photo of a board with invoices from AA pinned to it dated 1976
can anyone remember seeing the photo of a board with invoices from AA pinned to it dated 1976
exoray
Master Member
Depends on the person giving it, and what else is offered to substantiate it...
IMO once Brian identified Liz as the sculptor all the pieces of the puzzle fell in place...
And short of any contradictory evidence to the contrary besides the testimony of a proven time and time again lier, I'll place an incredible amount of validity to the witness facts...
That was last week, now he swears up and down Pemberton made the sculpt, this is a clear indicator that AA's testimony isn't reliable but changes to suit the circumstances... Can the same be said for Brian's testimony? That is the difference between reliable and unreliable testimony...
GINO
Sr Member
I think in this particular situation, there is a conflict of interest regarding the one giving the testimony. Both from AA's standpoint as well as Brian's.
Both stand to benefit in one way or another depending on which testimony is taken as fact.
Now that does not automatically disqualify either of their testimonies, but rather gives pause while considering it.
I'm not saying only one of them is right and the other is wrong, but I think we should open to the possibility of other scenarios other than the ones presented.
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Both stand to benefit in one way or another depending on which testimony is taken as fact.
Now that does not automatically disqualify either of their testimonies, but rather gives pause while considering it.
I'm not saying only one of them is right and the other is wrong, but I think we should open to the possibility of other scenarios other than the ones presented.
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Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
What could the conflict be? What EXACTLY are you driving at?
GINO
Sr Member
Credit, especially for characters as iconic as the stormtrooper and vader, is a highly valuable thing. In terms of career prestige as well as potentially monetarily.
And while I don't believe AA sculpted the helmet/armor, I'm not entirely prepared to believe (without some photo or recorded documents) that two single people (one deceased) were entirely responsible for these particular sculpts especially when there is potentially something very valuable to gain.
Without anyone else stepping up to contest, it all seems very convenient to me.
I'm not saying for certain that is or is not the case, but I'm saying I'm not prepared to believe either scenario hook line and sinker.
And for the record, I do believe that everything about these characters in any form whether they be concept drawings, molds, toolings, finished costumes are an art form, and all rights and control to them should solely reside with LFL.
To think otherwise in my opinion is just absurd.
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And while I don't believe AA sculpted the helmet/armor, I'm not entirely prepared to believe (without some photo or recorded documents) that two single people (one deceased) were entirely responsible for these particular sculpts especially when there is potentially something very valuable to gain.
Without anyone else stepping up to contest, it all seems very convenient to me.
I'm not saying for certain that is or is not the case, but I'm saying I'm not prepared to believe either scenario hook line and sinker.
And for the record, I do believe that everything about these characters in any form whether they be concept drawings, molds, toolings, finished costumes are an art form, and all rights and control to them should solely reside with LFL.
To think otherwise in my opinion is just absurd.
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Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
When people involved in the production state, quite clearly, that this was indeed the case, you STILL find it hard to believe? So, without coming right out and saying it, you do not believe Brian or Liz were as deeply involved as is claimed? Am I reading you correctly here?
What does Brian have to gain by the credit? He has a long history of cinematic sculpture, along with his other works. Hell, I'd be willing to bet he doesn't consider Vader to be his finest work. (Not trying to speak for you, Brian)
Liz Moore is dead, so what gain is there from giving HER credit?
What does Brian have to gain by the credit? He has a long history of cinematic sculpture, along with his other works. Hell, I'd be willing to bet he doesn't consider Vader to be his finest work. (Not trying to speak for you, Brian)
Liz Moore is dead, so what gain is there from giving HER credit?
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Seriously GINO, you just sound like someone who's still pissed at Brian Muir for liking another Vader costume better than yours. Otherwise, why the constant attempts to cast doubts on his character and recollection? Seems so left-field if not personal.
GINO
Sr Member
Not hard to believe, but I do not swallow it hook line and sinker when there is what I consider to believe a conflict of interest for one particular scenario to be considered fact.
No, I'm not saying that. But I am saying that I think there is the possibility that Liz did not sculpt the final helmet and also that Brian may not have solely sculpted the entire set of trooper armor and vader items without additional assistance. I believe there is a potential for there to be an exaggeration of role/credit much like the way that AA is doing so.
It is entirely possible that she and he did exactly as was stated, but as I said above, I personally need more to feel definitive about it.
Some people already have their minds made up. I just think that people should remain somewhat open.
I think there is a great value attached to the credit for sculpting these icons.
The prestige for sculpting them could be enough alone, but they could certainly potentially lead to monetary gain in the form of book deals, convention signings, etc..(just off the top of my head).
A story that fits nicely together.
But then again, I think it's very possible that she did sculpt it, I'm just not prepared to believe it hook line and sinker based on the evidence shown thus far.
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Too Much Garlic
Master Member
You think a picture or a piece of paper will in any way be able to prove that to you? Seriously, are you for real?
GINO
Sr Member
Absolutely it could, depending on what was shown.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
WOW... you are actually serious. Next thing you want video documentation with time stamps to be sure no one else so much as looked at the sculpt other than the one attached to having sculpted it.
WOW. I'm sorry... that's just too far out for me to follow. Get your head out of the sky GINO. That's just too extreme.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
So, what makes it so hard to believe? Have you seen some of Brian's other works? They blow Vader out of the water in intricacy and the level of detail. You make it seem like LFL and the others who have stated these things about Brian and Liz are out to dupe people. "Hook, line and sinker" is a fine way of saying people who believe their testimony are being fished in.
GINO
Sr Member
I think you are being a little dramatic.
I'm taking about photos similar to the one of the two helmet sculpts.
Or one similar to the one of Brian actually sculpting cz3.
Or documents similar to the ones AA has about the plastic being ordered for the production of helmets/armor or notes found in someone's journal somewhere.
Stuff like that.
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I'm taking about photos similar to the one of the two helmet sculpts.
Or one similar to the one of Brian actually sculpting cz3.
Or documents similar to the ones AA has about the plastic being ordered for the production of helmets/armor or notes found in someone's journal somewhere.
Stuff like that.
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GINO
Sr Member
I'm not saying he is or isn't out to dupe anyone.
Nope, just expressing my viewpoints and open-ness to different scenarios.
And I apologize if that is how it appears.
I'm just hoping to give people something to think about or offer an alternative perspective.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
"He" who? There are many people involved in the production that have offered up this testimony.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
You do know it's easy for anyone to just cast doubts and suspicions for no reason. If you actually had a sincere reason to cast those doubts, other than needlessly attacking someone else's credibility, present it. Since you don't, then yes, this seems personal.
Sure, it's fair to say people should keep an open mind, but that's not really what you are doing, now is it!? It certainly isn't HOW you are doing it...
Sure, it's fair to say people should keep an open mind, but that's not really what you are doing, now is it!? It certainly isn't HOW you are doing it...
GINO
Sr Member
Discussing this topic at it's very heart is to cast doubt on one person or another's credibility.
Why is it more okay for everyone to rake AA over the coals in this regard while even mentioning the slightest possibility in regards to others are considered sacred ground or taboo?
Keep in mind, I'm no fan of AA.
I'm just trying to be completely objective (as difficult as it may be).
I'm not trying to sway over people to my beliefs.
That would be impossible as I don't feel I have definitive beliefs at this point.
Only uncertainty.
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Why is it more okay for everyone to rake AA over the coals in this regard while even mentioning the slightest possibility in regards to others are considered sacred ground or taboo?
Keep in mind, I'm no fan of AA.
I'm just trying to be completely objective (as difficult as it may be).
I'm not trying to sway over people to my beliefs.
That would be impossible as I don't feel I have definitive beliefs at this point.
Only uncertainty.
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