KOOLSHADE info or TIE Fighter Wing material

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by Boba Flint, May 9, 2003.

  1. Boba Flint

    Boba Flint Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    MODS,
    Before merging this with the TIE thread I ask the Mods to stick this for a while. You have no idea how many emails and PMs I have received about this stuff. I would like this to serve as an announcement for a while.


    R.D. Sunshine is still around and making plenty of Koolshade. I went up there yesterday and took one of Steve's wings with me. The man in charge is Mark we came to the conclusion that to have enough material to make "hero wings" for a SS TIE we will need a 4'x6' piece of Koolshade. The price for just the Koolshade will be $216.

    Mark's contact info is:

    voice mail: 817-461-1144
    FAX: 817-459-3008
    email: solrman@earthlink.net

    The 800 phone numbers no longer work. Emailing or Faxing Mark will be the best way to get ahold of him.

    Mark also wants pictures of any completed TIEs that show the Koolshade material being used to put on Koolshade's website.
    Also if anyone is interested in making a TIE fighter for Mark please contact him. he REALY wants one. I had to turn him down because I could not gaurantee when I could even beging to work on one.


    Now stop pestering me and buy the Koolshade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [​IMG]
     
  2. Vinyl Guy

    Vinyl Guy Well-Known Member

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    Thank You for getting the info

    Dan

    "Vinyl Guy"
     
  3. Rogue Studios

    Rogue Studios Well-Known Member

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    * I paid a heck of lot more from him for that.
     
  4. Jeeves

    Jeeves Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks, Boba Flint -- and for the record, I didn't ever pester you, although I certainly did threaten to.

    While you were talking to the guy, did you happen to ask about a bulk discount? I'm thinking if we got 10-20 orders of the stuff that we could get the price even lower.

    -Raj
     
  5. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    All,

    Gonna chime in with my few cents worth. Ive constructed one HERO Tie and 4' x 6' is almost enough to do two complete TIES! As a minimum bare any mistakes in cutting you can make ONE HERO TIE FIGHTER using 1.8' x 4.6' of KoolShade Material see pics (the screen is smaller than the size given). I have the patterns for the hero wings. Remember to add 1/8" to 1/4" to the pattern as it is hidden by the wing struts and Plastruct H beam.

    You will need 8 of the top piece and 16 of the other. 2'x 6' is a safe if you make alot of mistakes but if you want the amount with no left over 1.8' x 4.6' is enough. It easily cuts with scissors so as long as you make the pattern and work one piece at a time you'll be fine. Get with Mark to see what that size would cost. May safe $30 to $50 bones.Thats enough to buy a much needed parts kit or take your lady out to dinner for putting up with this maddness!


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. HeatRay

    HeatRay New Member

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    Hey thanks for the photos, but some of your patterns look "wavey". Is there a reason for this or are they just not laying flat in the pictures?

    Also, was the same material used on Vader's ship or was it something else?

    Jim
     
  7. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    the koolshade material was not used on Vaders TIE or the Interceptors, just the regulars.

    Steve.
     
  8. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Hey,

    Yeah I quickly cut those out just to show that they would all fit on the Koolshade sheet size I indicated. The master screen patterns I use can be photo copied to make the desired number.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Also on the Darth TIE Im sure noones has the material used for this sucker! It took me 3 years to figure out whats was used. Several of the Light diffuser are close but nothing that matches directly.

    Heres the deal Those light defussers are heated and pressed to make the final product.

    ILM might have used the Metal "masters" that make up the mold for a particular light diffuser See Pic below. I revearsed
    the process and made a negative from the proper Light Material then made a master from the mold. Walla.. Darth Vader screen materal! Yes it is different from all other Tie Fighters.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Steve
     
  9. JPolacchi

    JPolacchi Sr Member

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    Is there any chance of getting a sample piece?Say...12"X12"?Even a scrap piece would be good enough for me....maybe roughly 6"X8"?Is there anone out there who has some scrap of the cool shade material?Please pm me if there anone who daoes,and let me know what you would want for the scrap.Thanks-John
     
  10. JPolacchi

    JPolacchi Sr Member

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    Pardon my horrible typing..yeeeesh....
     
  11. HeatRay

    HeatRay New Member

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    Steve, with you saying that Darth Vader's TIE wings were different from any others, does that mean that the intercepters were using something else as well?

    Jeeeze!!! Every model different wings. It's almost as if they knew folks would try to figure this out one day.
     
  12. DARKSIDE72

    DARKSIDE72 Sr Member

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    The Vader Tie and Intercepter used the same wing material.
     
  13. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    After comparing the two over and over and buying my share of Light Diffuser I will tell you they are not the same. If you look at vaders TIE there are many distinct thin Horizontal lines patterns. (caused by the INDENTED diamond pattern) The light is reflecting off of these causing the line effect.

    [​IMG]
    In the above pic you can clearly see this. All the little square/diamond details on the panels are indented inward. Only on the upper damaged screen are they protruding. My guess would be easier to damage the plastic light diffuser rather than the metal master plates.


    On the Interceptor they seem to be scattered because the light is reflecting off of the protruding diamond shapes.
    [​IMG]
    The picture clearly shows the diamonds are protruding and NOT indented into the wing. Look at all of the TIE ADVANCED photos you can see the almost solid lines. You cannot create this effect with the TIE INTERCEPTOR screen.

    I may be wrong but dont think so.
     
  14. DARKSIDE72

    DARKSIDE72 Sr Member

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    Just looks like they changed the angle in which they laid the screen in to me. They are still "squares". Accept on the interceptor the pattern runs diagonally. Seems like they may have reversed the screen also.
     
  15. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Squares yes.. one protruding above the surface (Interceptor)and I agree they did change the angle

    the other going the opposite direction squares going inward. (Vader TIE)

    Caution!! If you stare at this screen stuff to long you may see things.... strange things...

    This is what I got for the Vader TIE Screen
    [​IMG]
    it has the same line characteristics and the squares are indented.
     
  16. DARKSIDE72

    DARKSIDE72 Sr Member

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    Yea, I've got a headache already from looking at them too much.. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. JPolacchi

    JPolacchi Sr Member

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    Is there anyone with some scrap piece of the cool shade material?
     
  18. SFPROPS

    SFPROPS Well-Known Member

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    I've just now read the info on the KOOLSHADE and I've been wondering for years what that stuff actually was.

    I know about a year or so ago that someone asked a couple of the guys from ILM what the material for the TIE wings was, and they didn't have a clue and said that if anyone found out, that they'd love to know. This was on the R2 board, so I figure anyone who frequents that board knows who I am talking about. Hopefully they get the info if they don't already have it.
     
  19. star-art

    star-art Sr Member

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  20. Gary Weaver II

    Gary Weaver II Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Awesome info.

    I'm not sure if this will work for a model I'm making at the moment, but does anyone have a picture of a section of kool-shade with ruler in it for scale. I could figure it out rel fast if I had a 1:1 scale drawing or picture...

    -Gary
     
  21. solrman

    solrman New Member

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    This is a 01/03/2011 update for Mark. Reach me at 800 478 7439 or email me at solrman at earthlink.net for information. I still have the material and it is the original material, not the stamped aluminum fake stuff.
     
  22. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    How many louvers per inch is needed for a SS TIE Fighter?

    Also, was koolshade used on the 32" Falcon at the six engine vents and the strip around the cockpit?
     
  23. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You need the VINTAGE Kool Shade at 21(ish) louvers per inch. The newer stuff is more like 17... visually quite different.
     
  24. -... . .- --..

    -... . .- --.. Sr Member

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    What Jason said.

    And while Koolshade was used on the original five-foot Falcon model, it's not on the 32-incher.
     
  25. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You may ask solrman if it´s really the vintage stuff he still has.
     
  26. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Gentlmen, i fired off an email about the VINTAGE Kool Shade at 21(ish) louvers per inch,.... I'll post the response for all when I get it.
     
  27. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I did the same yesterday, lol - got a reply:

    "What you are referring to is the 23 louver material, also known as LSA for
    low sun angle. It has not been produced
    since 1991 - 1992. there was a special machine that compressed the 17
    louver into 23 louver. The machine stopped
    working and the demand was not great enough to justify investing in the
    repair."

    We need to get someone to go back in time and fix his machine :p
     
  28. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    Does everyone need more? I have next to nothing left of the stock I had here, but my supplier still has a handful of sheets left of the vintage stuff.

    Also I was contacted from someone over the "pond" recently that says he has a couple ROLLS that were uncovered from about 20 years ago in storage. The bad news, I am not sure he is keen on selling it since I didn't hear back from him after he contacted me.
     
  29. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    I would like to get enough for a TIE Fighter SS build, I can't see myself building a five foot Falcon in my life. However, are there any other SS builds that require Koolshade?
     
  30. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Yes Jay, used on the ROTJ AT-ST, Lambda Shuttle, Sandcrawler.
     
  31. Shadowknight

    Shadowknight Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I need some for my Rotj AT-ST kit build.
     
  32. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone tell me the width of the perpindicular lines that are on a piece of 23 lines per inch koolshade?
     
  33. DonS

    DonS Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure the width of 23 line is the same as the 17.
     
  34. bwayne64

    bwayne64 Well-Known Member

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    The width is 1/2 inch or 13 mm, well 12.7 mm, but who's counting the .3, :) , Cheers



    Joe
     
  35. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys:thumbsup
     
  36. Scratchy

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned earlier in this thread, in order to make the "hero wings" for a SS TIE a person will need a 4'x6' piece of Koolshade.

    How big of a piece is needed to make one side of one wing?
     
  37. ozzyguanche

    ozzyguanche Sr Member

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    Hi guys,

    I just thought I would mention, that a company In Australia still has stock of LSA Koolshade.

    I have not negotiated a price as yet, as it depends on the amount. The more ordered the less the price.

    I realy dont want to bug these people for small cuts, as they have been helpfull to me. But I would be happy to help out anyone who would like to stock some of this stuff for modelers etc.

    Ozzy
     
  38. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    You got a response? I had no luck in that department.

    Another major consideration if you do have success--the shipping is going to add a huge amount to the price for anyone not located in Australia. It's made out of bronze and enough for even 3 TIE's would be at least 35 lbs. of shipping weight. But it might be worth it if you can steal it for a bargain price.

    A word of warning, the seller does know its value and will probably charge accordlingly. After he told me my supplier was not the only source left who had it and that he knew how rare it was, he never responded to me again. He was either browsing this forum or the saw the post with my contact info on modelermagic.com.

    Also, make sure you can verify the condition of the material being sold for louvre damage before you commit to buying anything. After 20-30 years there's a strong likelihood that it won't exactly look like it did back when it was manufactured. I got lucky with the amount of decent quality stuff I was able to provide (dated 1981)--even then, I wasn't ultimately happy with some of the sections I sent out, and kept the worst ones for myself. Feel free to message me as I've already been down this road.

     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  39. joewhite

    joewhite Sr Member

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    I'm interested in enough for one TIE, the ROTJ AT-ST and the Shuttle. According to Steve's post, 2x6 should cover it given no mess ups, right?

    LMK if a list gets going.

    Joe
     
  40. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    If you're laser precise and make no mistakes, you can actually get away with using less material for the 24 wing pieces. In the scenario below (shot tonight), the templates share a "seam" line where one cut would split two in half. This is possible with the right cutting shears without warping, but I've never done it and usually like to leave a little border around each piece. The paper templates in the photo also account for the 1/2" border that sits hidden underneath the wing spars.

    If anyone would be interested in going this route, I can stretch out what's left from my supplier if there's sufficient interest. The amount needed in a case like this would be a hair over 8 square feet, not including the small leftover scraps. This would also be reflected in a lower price. These would be for the "risky and frisky" TIE builder. Also, this measurement is based on the size of the Nice-N kit, which some have said may have slightly smaller (height) stars than one of the original filming models. This is another reason why 10 square feet is a safer bet.

    Matt

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  41. joewhite

    joewhite Sr Member

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    Hmmm....laser, eh? How thick is this stuff?

    Joe
     
  42. darth_myeek

    darth_myeek Sr Member

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    Matt did a really nice job with his last run. :thumbsup

    JW - Here is a video of it being unrolled. Might give you an idea of the thickness.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  43. asemblyrequired

    asemblyrequired Well-Known Member

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    I would like to have a 3 or 4" square ( Or a wedge ) to frame with a good Tie Fighter print just for a cool display. I doubt I would ever be in a position to build a full SS one.


    -James
     
  44. ave4uevoli

    ave4uevoli Sr Member

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    I could use a 4'x6' piece just in case so long as its good quality.
     
  45. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    If I can get at least 4 solid confirms for orders, I'll try to do one last run so throw me emails (pm's are almost full so email is better--it's listed below in my sig-- acadiatech@adelphia.net). For people that want pictures after theirs arrives I can accomodate. The run later last year never really took off like the first one did in '09 and I made the mistake of ordering ahead of deposits and some people never followed through and left me with it.

    So, if any folks are really serious about getting this stuff, feel free to message me. I just don't want to have to chase people down or deal with "tire kickers" as only about 20% of those who say they want it end up buying it. I can give fairly firm estimates on price, including a percentage of the shipping costs to get it here which is factored into the cost(s), plus an estimate of how much (around $20-25) to ship to you via Fedex.

    The cost for the good quality material is about the cost of a Nice-N Hero Tie kit with armature, without much scrap left it's $450-500 and the lesser quality sections for a tie are in the $350-400 range if you don't mind it needing a repaint since the finish on those sections is matte and discolored in areas.

    Since this topic has been covered a lot, I've created an interest thread.. would be happy to answer any questions there to keep the S.S. section clean:
    http://www.therpf.com/f13/vintage-ilm-koolshade-thread-110039/
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  46. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    Glad you like it Kevin!

    All of the unused, bought-as-new stock that sat around these 30 years is ever so slightly different, usually it goes from jet black, to a couple clicks lighter, but it all has the trademark sheen. I haven't been able to decide if it's natural aging/sunlight exposure, or what. But I wouldn't be ashamed to use any of it on a Hero build.. which, I am aching to see by the way!

    For comparison, the aged variety that seemed to be left outside to the ravages of time...

    Without retouching with an airbrush, it's probably more suitable for an SS T.U.R.D Fighter (yes, it really is that brown..)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  47. Docmani

    Docmani Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Sorry for resurrecting the thread, but I've recently gained an interest in the Studio Scale TIE and have been researching parts.

    Jason's statement intrigued me:

    So this verifies that it is the same stuff, its simply they can't compress it anymore.

    I'm wondering if it would be possible to build something that could compress it by hand in small sections? It might be labor intensive, but considering the cost and availability of the vintage stuff, I'm wondering if its worth the effort.

    I know the vintage stuff was going for $50 per sq.ft. How much does the regular stuff go for?

    Does anybody have any samples/scraps of either they'd be willing to share for somebody who'd like to experiment?
     
  48. dragnink

    dragnink Well-Known Member

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    Hi John,

    The vintage shade was made on a large (and incredibly complex) wire loom of sorts which braided the vertical loop wire (or louver) around the horizontal slats which set them at a specified angle desired by the manufacturer. To my knowledge, there was no "pressing" involved, per se... the machines were created and calibrated only for one specific louvre count per square inch.

    The current manufacturer said that a new machine was in development that could potentially specify different psi, but that there isn't much need for it as their solution with the newer (post-1991) shade was to use less material, more spacing and a steeper angle of the horizontal slats to have the same cooling properties of the vintage shade. Bad news for S.S. enthusiasts but good for them as it uses less material/lowers costs.

     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  49. GKvfx

    GKvfx Sr Member

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    I posted this in another thread, but since we are on the topic of Koolshade here -

    OK, this post is NOT going to help you one bit with any details on the TIE. But it is an interesting bit of trivia that I stumbled upon.

    Architect Pierre Koenig (no relation, I'm presuming, to the commander of Moonbase Alpha) is well known amongst architectural geeks for his mid-century modern houses - you know, the ones with walls of glass that were built on tops of a lot of local L.A. hills. His Stahl house ( The Stahl House | Case Study House #22 ) is where the Tim Allen character in "Galaxy Quest" lives. (He also lived, literally, down the street from me when I lived in Brentwood.)

    I was reading an article about one of his houses south of L.A. in a book and came across this page (pay special attention to the highlighted text) -
    [​IMG]

    And if I hear reports of the homeowners coming home one day and discovering hexagon shaped pieces of Koolshade missing from their window screens, I'm going to phone in an anonymous tip to the cops...... :rolleyes

    Gene
     

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