Kinda Big Project For Complete Noob

[reptilelover95]

I was on here last fall/winter, with the goal of building a predator costume - sadly I never got around to it because my water monitor passed away on the 23rd of January and because of that my immune system shut down almost completely until March, and by then I had forgotten about my idea. Since that was a while ago and I don't want to make people dig through the forums to find out what my plan/goals are/were, I'll re-state them here.

My goal is to make my own, ORIGINAL predator character - I don't want one of the ones in the movies, comic books, etc. I want it to be a UNIQUE look - I can construct my own background for the character, give him a backstory, that kinda thing. Luckily, that wouldn't effect the main parts of the build too much - all of the predators have the same muscle structure and shape - it's just a matter of the bio-mask, face, and color that would set it apart. The other thing I want to do to set it apart from other people's pred builds is have as much OPERATIONAL parts as possible - animatronic mandibles, carbon steel (rather than plastic) wristblades, that sorta stuff. For the weapons, I'd need both a carbon steel and a plastic version of the blades, because I'd have the goal of coming up with a fighting style using the weapons and in order to practice against partners safely I'd need a different set that wouldn't rip their guts open with a small mishap 

Sadly, I have literally NO experience with ANY of the aspects of the actual costume building (I obviously have experience with bladed weapons/staffs (I'd also make a combi-stick), so I'm not just some little kid playing with weapons like they're toys), so that's why I'm here. Yes, I have read all of the tutorials on here that I could find, but seeing it online, in videos, etc. is VERY different from actually doing it yourself. If I had the $5k+ to spare, I'd just commission someone to make the skin, mask, etc. for me, but I don't (I don't mind spending money on this, though - I just don't want to pay a ridiculous amount). Plus, even if I DID have experience with liquid latex, airbrushing, and the like, I have NOWHERE to actually do it - I live in a small, 1-bedroom apartment with 5 animals and I'm sure having those fumes trapped in there would not be good 

Thus, I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas as to how I might be able to actually undertake this project with these issues in mind. My main concern is making it look AMAZING - even if I could try, my bet is that since I have no experience, it wouldn't exactly be a jaw-dropper (and with the money I'd be putting into it, I wouldn't want to spend twice as much to try again because I botched my first attempt). Does anyone know if there are people who could possibly "mentor" me in person (ie I buy the materials and everything, and then we get together and they help me learn so I can make it look good - I'd pay them for their time if necessary provided the fee seemed reasonable)? I'm not trying to solicit or anything, but that was the best solution I could think of on my own.

I look forward to any feedback 

 

[Predatoj]

Well, I've been coming on here for some time and just completed my first piece, a predator 2 Bio - and it was much harder than I thought it would be however it was a success. I'm in the process of planning my next project and doing a classic P1 mask.

That's my experience.

It certainly sounds ambitious. The first thing that jumps out at me is the 'working mandibles' I've haunted this site long enough to know that it is some what of a holy grail round here. Some people have managed to do it using pulley systems with varying degrees of success. I know a company called Oxygen-labs have done a commercial pred mask with working jaw system, whilst it works well, I thought the mask looked crap and clearly were compromising the mask to get the jaw to work effectively.
Forget liquid latex it simply isn't the correct grade to do what you want. It has bad shrinking and deteriorates over time. You would need Foam latex and you can get animatronic grade FL too. Unfortunately it is fairly technical to use, expensive, comes in several parts, takes experience to use correctly and requires a special oven to cure it, however a quick google will give you building instructions to build an oven for around $200.

I'd recommend Stan Winston School too. They are an online school where you can buy very extensive tutorials on virtually every aspect of special effects and costume building. $39.99 for the DVD or $19.99 webstream with unlimited views per lesson. 2hr 30 minute lessons. Highly recommended! I just got the 'Mask painting with Steve Wang and gonna buy more.

 

[reptilelover95]

The problem is that having no experience, even if I watch a ton of videos and read a lot of information on the web, I've never ACTUALLY done any of the procedures/techniques they describe. And since you say that stuff is very expensive, I'd hate to use a crap ton of it, mess up, and have to buy a whole new set of materials.

Honestly, I'd like my material to have certain qualities that I didn't think liquid latex would provide. I'd want it to look good (not just like I took a long sleeve shirt and pants and painted them), but considering I'd be wearing a mask I couldn't have anything that would get too hot because I overheat VERY easily - I once fainted from heatstroke in 5th grade because I was wearing a full suit (tie, jacket, etc.) on a stage with a bunch of spotlights on me. I'd also need a material that would be decently flexible - I'd be doing a decent amount of twisting around, arm movements, and definitely a lot of quick footwork as I developed a technique to maximize the effectiveness of the predator's close-combat weaponry. 

For the mask, the primary reason I'd need it to be animatronic is because I'd have certain buttons in the bio-mask to activate features of the suit - primarily the thermal imaging vision (turning it on and off). I understand how a thermal imaging camera works to a decent extent, although I'd need someone with electronics expertise to help me integrate the technology into the mask. My idea would be to have the optics and the infrared detector fitted into the lenses on the bio-mask, and then I'd have to figure out where the best place to put the signal processing circuitry. I could have the eyes of the actual "head" mask as the video monitors, such that it's as if the mask gives me "thermal imaging vision" - although this would all depend on making sure that the circuitry was safely separable between the bio-mask and the head, I'm not going to get into that unless I actually figure out a way to do the more simple parts. Worst comes to worst, I just give up before I waste a ton of money on a project I don't have the experience to carry out.

Just for the fun of it, I came up with the concept of having the entire costume outfitted with miniature cameras and projectors, connected in a way such that each tiny camera was wirelessly connected to the projector opposite it. The projectors would project the image from the tiny camera onto the costume, and it could give a limited amount of camouflage. I say "came up with the concept" because I would never even try to attempt that - it would be WAY too much work, and it would cost more money than anything else in the project - probably all the other parts COMBINED.

Right now, I'm pretty sure that sadly I'll have to put down my idea of having a [decent - not those store-bought cruddy ones] pred costume of any sort - unless I find a hidden stash of gold somewhere

 

[wonko]

Your 2 options are either buying a suit or making it yourself.  There are plenty of people here that offer excellent quality parts and great service to help you with purchasing one.  If you decide to build it yourself, all the information is already on the lair.  It is very possible to build something on a small budget that looks far better than "those store-bought cruddy ones".  The thing to remember is, the more you have to spend, the better suit you'll end up with.  By the time you start adding all the little details (functioning blade and bomb gauntlets, lasers, sounds) the cost increases allot.  

As far as heat, there's no getting around it.  There are ways to make thing a little more tolerable, but you're still going to get hot.  Add the weight factor in (which isn't terrible, but is noticeable) and things get even more uncomfortable.  Best I've done suited up was about 6 hours, and that about killed me.  You'll see videos of guys literally pouring huge amounts of sweat out of hands and feet.  It's the real deal.  If you find being in a suit and tie difficult, a full blown latex or silicone predator suit is not for you.  Silicone is going to give you the best movement, but costs allot more than latex.

Best thing to do is start small and build from there.  The first pred related thing I built was the shoulder cannon.  After seeing that it was easier than I thought I moved on to bigger and better pieces.  I read everything I could find that pertained to what I was doing, researched the lair for almost a full year (before even posting), and took tons of notes.  In my opinion, the research and prep are what make an average suit the amazing one you are looking for.  I made sure I understood what materials I was using, how they worked, and knew what to expect from them.  Once I finally started the actual build things went smoothly and were way easier than I though they would be.  8 months later I had a suit that I could be proud of.  I have since upgraded allot of things, and will continue to do so until I feel it's the best it can be for what I am working with (It's close now).

Don't give up hope.  Maybe you should scale it back a little bit and work your way to your dream suit.  I can tell you this... building these things is like an addiction, and one is never enough  Hope this made sense and was at least a little helpful.

Brian 

 

[reptilelover95]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate the encouragement. I'd be buying some of the parts anyways, just because I know that if I pay someone experienced to do it, I can be assured that it'll be good quality (ie parts such as the animatronic mask). I just reviewed the top sticky thread in this sbuforum and noticed that unpainted bodysuits range from $300-500 unpainted. How much more might a silicone one cost? I think I'd be okay with airbrushing it myself, although I'd need suggestions on a specific airbrush model as well as potential ways to practice and master the techniques before I actually started airbrushing the costume itself. I'd also like to know if that includes the hands/feet - if that would cost a crap ton extra, I'd make those myself.

The other problem other than lack of experience is simply that from what I've gleaned, you need an large area with good ventilation to work with many of the materials used in costume-making - I don't have access to such a space, as I live in a 1-bedroom apartment and I wouldn't want the fumes to harm my reptiles. I might be wrong about that though, so if I am please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[wonko]

Fumes are definitely a concern when it comes to working with most of the materials used.  I have a large (1000 sq. ft.) shop i work in with good ventilation and still use a respirator.  As far as cost of silicone vs. latex, I can't say for sure, but my guess would be around 2-3 times the price of latex.  I looked into it a little and know that the materials needed to paint it are 3-4 times more than they are for latex.  There are a few guys here who can set you up with everything you need, but a body suit is just that... body only.  Also, at the time, I don't think there's anyone here who offers silicone body suits for sale, so that would be a custom commission.  Usurper has an awesome build thread on his silicone suit he's working on that's worth checking out.  He would also be one to answer your questions (as well as ptgreek) concerning silicone.

Brian 

 

[reptilelover95]

I just found an awesome thread detailing a very simple skin simply using an airbrush, a zentai, and sealing it with permawet.

http://www.thehunterslair.com/topic/21022-lycra-skin-paint-up-1st-time-with-an-airbrush/?hl=spandex%20zentai

I think that might be a good route to take simply because it'd save me a lot of expenses when it comes to latex/silicone/etc., and it doesn't look like crap. Plus, it wouldn't be baggy like another build might be. What do you guys think? If I do decide to go this route, I'll need recommendations for an airbrush model and potential ways to master airbrushing techniques before I go actually painting the costume.

Thanks for all your advice - this forum is full of genuinely helpful people and I think I'm going to enjoy my stay here

 

[reptilelover95]

Sorry for the double post, but I think I might actually go forward with this suit plan - I think it'll look pretty cool. I just have a couple of questions before I get started.

Should I buy a dummy to mount it on, or should I make a duct tape dummy of myself? I know the guy in the tutorial mounted it on a dummy larger than it would be on him, but I wasn't sure. Also, he didn't say on that whether he got one that was larger than it would be for him or if he just stretched one tailored to his size to the bigger dummy. I wanna make sure i have a solid plan before I go spending any $$.

Also, I'd like a recommendation for an airbrush model/kit. I'd like to get something that I know will do a good job

 

[reptilelover95]

Okay, sorry for the TRIPLE post, but I've got an update. Sorry for the airbrush-related question... I know there are a ton of topics on here about it (For some reason I haven't been able to find the forum search function, but a google search did link me to some topics on here), but I wasn't able to find anything specific pertaining to my question. Luckily I got a message back from Atlantian, so I'll be getting that as soon as I get one last question answered. I'm hoping to have the skin done by around Christmas, so that I can ask for what I need for the rest of the costume as presents. Still, if I don't meet my goal in that regard, it's not a big deal; I'd rather have an awesome looking suit than a cruddy looking one. It may sound like a lot to be asking, but I want a suit that is so good that if Yautja actually existed and visited Lawrence KS, they'd think I was one of them (if I wasn't so short XP).

I've also come up with an idea for my unique Predator character, to give him a bit of an interesting background and to explain certain deviations from the Yautja norm. Since I want to have pretty much every part of the costume being functional, active camouflage, plasma caster, netguns, etc. wouldn't be included, simply because we humans don't have the technology to replicate such weapons/equipment. My idea is that this Yautja holds himself to an incredibly high standard - he does not want to rely on TECHNOLOGY such as active camo to hide him from his prey - he prefers to use his own cunning. As for the lack of advanced Yautja weapons, he wants to be able to look into his prey's eyes when they die by his hand. He enjoys the thrill of the fight - pitting his own skills against those of his opponent rather than the cowardly [in his mind] use of ranged weaponry. I'm sure some people might think this is outright stupid, but I'd like to hear thoughts anyways. I would give him a bio-mask though - but I'd have to spend a LOT of time on it because I'd like to integrate thermal imaging technology into the lenses. On that note, I do need some ideas for the bio mask design. I know there's a reference section with pictures from the movies as well as a gallery with pictures of people's bio-masks, and I have looked at that. I'd just like ideas for where I might find inspiration - ie "search 'samaurai masks on Google'" or something.

Thanks in advance for any feedback/suggestions

 

[wonko]

Couple of things jump out at me from the start.  First of all (and you may be aware of this), 99% of the time metal weapons aren't allowed in conventions and will likely get you arrested on the street.  If your plan is resin or some other sort of non-metal weapon, you should be fine (some conventions are more lenient than others).  Also, any type of projectile will not be allowed either, as well as explosives or any type of pyrotechnics.  Secondly, I guess I don't see the point of thermal imaging.  It's hard enough seeing out of a mask and bio (especially it you install tinted lenses) without adding something like that to make it nearly impossible.  I'm not even sure how you would go about installing it, unless you had an over sized bio.  Your options are either going with a one piece unit (the FLIR type stuff) or having an external thermal imaging camera running to a small monitor mounted inside the bio.  How do you plan on seeing through the monitor when the TI is turned off, or are you going to leave it on all the time?  These are all great ideas, and have been discussed and dreampt about on the lair many times before, and to date no one (that I'm aware of) has had any success.  If they have, I don't think it's been posted here.  If you succeed in doing it I'm sure many here would bow to your technical skills, as well as throw their money at you begging for one of their own.  None of this is meant to discourage you, it's meant to give you things to think about while researching and building your suit.

Brian

P.S.  The search function is the rectangular box at the very top of any page, right in the middle, that says "Search" and gives you options where and what to search for.  Hope that helps.

 

[reptilelover95]

Thanks for the feedback - I would have plastic versions of the weapons for when I would be going out in public. I would simply have metallic versions for testing the effectiveness of the designs: possibly getting some durable dummies with a consistency similar to that of human flesh/sinew, and then seeing how well the blades actually cut/damage the body. My long-term would be to create a martial arts style that utilized the unique close-combat weapons of the Yautja - I'd start by finding a "sparring partner" who could get their hands on a plastic blade of their own: I'm smart enough to know that weapons are NOT toys. I believe that the wrist blades would be particularly effective in blade-to-blade combat because of the large ridges along the surface that would be used to block incoming blows. With proper timing and speed, the wielder could "catch" the edge of their attacker's weapon in one of those little notches, and use that opportunity to make a strong counter. Any slashing maneuvers would need to be the end of the blade directly against the skin, or the outer edge catching onto the flesh.

I was thinking about doing a combi-stick, but considering that it would need to be both strong enough to withstand brutal hand-to-hand combat (turning aside blades, xeno claws, etc.), AND light enough to throw with a decent degree of accuracy, I'm not so sure that is really possible. If the "rods" were hollow, it could be decently lightweight, but then it would be easier to damage. I think I'll just stick with the wristblades for now

I did have an idea for a smartdisc, but I'm not sure if it would work. If you play the 2010 AVP, when you use the smartdisc, you guide where it goes with the targeting laser in your biomask before it returns to you. My idea would be to have it such that there is an RC receiver in the smartdisc itself (as well as various other pieces of equipment that would allow it to fly) that would be controlled by the helmet such that when it's thrown, it would be guided around until it returned. To make it lightweight, only the outermost edge would have a blade, which would be a bit like a table saw blade that would rotate once the smartdisc was thrown. I'd need to do a TON of calculations to make sure it would actually fly, though, and I'd also need to make sure that the blade stops rotating as the smartdisc is returning to me so I wouldn't slice my arm off by accident

For Thermal Imaging, I still have to come up with a solid plan. I know that if I were able to do it [well], I could and would make them for people. The way I understand it, a thermal imaging camera works like this: the infrared light emitted by objects in view is focused through a special lens, then it's converted to a "thermogram" by infrared detector elements. This thermogram is then translated into electric impulses that are processed by a circuit board with a dedicated chip, and then transferred to a display of some sort. I believe the key part of integrating it into the MASK is the display piece. The technology obviously already exists - otherwise this wouldn't be an option. What I'd have to do is make it so that the lenses for the bio-mask WERE the display that the signal processor transmitted to. I did contact FLIR at one point back in December, but since I had a lot of stuff going on soon afterwards I didn't have the time to follow through fully. I know they did say that they could potentially help me out, so maybe if I contacted them again I could see what happened. The good thing about it being for recreational use is that the image quality doesn't have any standards it needs to meet other than being able to actually SEE.

Still, first things first - I have to get an airbrush and the skin and paint that up, and I have to come up with a blueprint for what I want my bio-mask to look like. None of this stuff needs to get done immediately, so I'm not worried about time.

 

[wonko]

For future reference and to help clarify to avoid confusion (I confuse easy) a bio helmet is a helmet... it's armor.  The mask is the head of the predator.  I assume when you're talking about integrating the display into the mask, you were talking about the helmet.  Is that correct, or are you thinking about putting it in the mask?

Brian

 

[Predatoj]

It sounds a little over ambitious to me given your budget and experience. If you consider the Predator 2 suit cost $200,000 dollars in 1990 and that was just a costume really. Are you an electronics engineer? Not putting you off, but That suit would cost tens of thousands imo

 

[reptilelover95]

For future reference and to help clarify to avoid confusion (I confuse easy) a bio helmet is a helmet... it's armor.  The mask is the head of the predator.  I assume when you're talking about integrating the display into the mask, you were talking about the helmet.  Is that correct, or are you thinking about putting it in the mask?

Brian

Yes, I meant the helmet. I know it's armor - I just wasn't specific enough in my terminology. The way I'm currently thinking about it is having the parts such as the circuit/signal processor (basically the parts that aren't actually TAKING in the light) in the backpack/one of the guantlets (I doubt the left gauntlet would have enough room since it would have all the bits for the "bomb"), so that it's not adding extra bulk to the bio helmet. I was thinking maybe I could have those parts connected to the optics/display via the cord/cable thingy (I don't know the proper term) that attaches to the helmet (although I'd have to make sure that the connection would be separable so that I'd be able to remove the bio helmet without damaging the parts). Since I'd want to have it as a vision, I'd have to have the optics that detected the infrared light in the same place as the display - I could possibly have two "lenses" - the outermost lens being the one that picks up the infrared light and then once the signal has been processed and all that the inner "lens" would display the image.

Still, that can definitely wait since I have to get the basics of the costume down first. I'm not going to make the steel replicas of the wrist blades for a while since I'll be developing the style by practicing with the basic plastic versions. As I also said, I won't be giving my Yautja a plasma caster.

If anyone has any requests for Yautja weapons that they would like to see "in action," let me know. Obviously they'd have to be something that could be replicable with modern technology  

 

[reptilelover95]

Sorry for another post by me, but I've ordered everything I need. I got a custom lycra bodysuit, Badger 350 airbrush set and compressor with FW Ink colors, and a 6' mannequin. I found someone relatively local to me who has some airbrush experience and is willing to help me learn the ropes and do a good job on the skin. All of the stuff except the bodysuit itself is estimated to arrive by Thursday, but the bodysuit is estimated to take 11 days (it didn't specify business days, but my guess is that's implied since it's a commercial website. Still, it's from China so maybe I'm mistaken). Still, I'll get a cheap white T-shirt to practice on next weekend.

Here's to not messing this whole thing up!