Julien’s Upcoming Hero Phaser & Communicator Auction

[TOS Phaser]

Note that the Lenore and the Finney--the heroes which got the most screentime, early on--were the ones with watch crowns.

For years I looked at the nearly side view - high rez cap of Lenore holding the "Riley/Lenore" P2 and did recognize the Hero P1 in the saddle...

The Hero P1 filmed in this scene is - IMO - NOT the TMOST P1 - It is the Nona P1.

The P1 in this scene has the WMC Nona shape in the rear...

And something else for those of you who are convinced there was no Hero P1 swapping after WMC:

The Nona P1 does not appear to fit the Riley/Lenore saddle...

In the following high rez cap (the scene before the Lenore scene) Riley who is holding the Riley/Lenore P2 appears to have the same Hero P1 inserted:

I think (now) this Hero P1 is the Nona P1 because it has the WMC re-shaped rear end.

The following is a good comparison photo (besides the Assignment Earth Photo) of the TMOST P1 rear end to the Nona P1 rear end:

If the "Lost" Hero P1 with Velcro on the left side for carrying Hero P2s on gold belts was "reworked" by WMC to be a 3rd Hero P1 for closeup shots - it (IMO) was not filmed inserted into the Riley/Lenore P2 in either "The Conscience of the King" or in "Court-Martial" because the photographic evidence in the B&W episodes - reflect the "Lost"/4th Hero P1, originally with Velcro on the left side for carring the Finney P2 on gold belts, was IMO - the twin of the TMOST. (The read end dimensions of the TMOST P1 and the Lost P1 appear to be very close.)

You can see this in the "Charlie X" episode when it is mated to the Greg Jein P2 and in the front view close up when Captain Kirk carries the Finney into Dr. McCoy's cabin to kill the salt monster in "The Man Trap". (This is why I asked Dahn if there was a photo of the front view of the auction Finney P1 with its sight raised. (The sight hood of the Lost B&W Hero P1 (with Velcro on the left side) has an obvious angle when the sight is raised.)

You can see the sight hood appears to be at an angle on the 4th Hero P1 matted to the Finney P2 in this closeup shot.

To summarize:

1. I now think the Riley/Lenore P2 in "The Conscience of the King" is mated with the Nona P1. - - I cannot explain the jewel/crown changes after WMC.

2. I maintain the "Lost / 4th" Hero P1 was most likely not "reworked" by WMC to be a third Hero P1 for closeup use. And it is, I believe, the 4th Hero P1 with Velcro on the left side that was filmed matted to the Finney P2 in "Shore Leave". I will provide photographic evidence the Jein P1 or the Jein P1 "battery cover" was probably damaged, when the Greg Jein P2 was dropped by Shatner during the filming of "The Man Trap" in my B&W Study thread.

 

[feek61]

The problem with your theory is that the Conscience P1 you are referring to has a watch crown not the red jewel the Nona has. It is VERY unlikely that the very next episode filmed that it had the red jewel if this were indeed the Nona as you suspect. You are comparing camera angles that are shot below the P2s which distort the top of the P1 shell. Not to mention that the Nona with the red jewel is seen in "Miri" which was filmed before "Conscience of the King."

The Conscience / Lenore / Riley P1 in "Conscience of the King" is not the Nona, it cant be unless they removed the red jewel after "Miri" and replaced it with a watch crown for "Conscience of the King" then removed the watch crown after that episode and replaced again with a red jewel for "Galileo Seven." Its just my theory, but that seems highly unlikely!!!

By damage to the GJ battery cover, are you talking about where the paint is missing from the bottom? Also, how do we know there was any damage from Shatner dropping it?

Honestly, I still am of the belief that the P1's were for the most part, pared with their P2s post the Wah modifications. There would really be no reason to remove the P1's from the P2's except for a very few occasions in "Miri" and in "The Return of the Archons"

 

[Chrisisall]

Sounds to me like they played musical chairs with the P1's. On a tight schedule they probably had to more than once or twice. Fascinating conversation guys!

 

[Chrisisall]

Okay, IMHO these are not the same P2's, and are clearly not the same P1's.

 

[newworld]

Okay, IMHO these are not the same P2's, and are clearly not the same P1's.

No opinion needed. The scratches on the P1 wheel, while similar, are not a match. The lower P1’s wheel tells us it is the Nona. That’s a fact. The fins/fin boxes box on the P2’s are definably different. Another fact. The lower P2 is neither the Lenore, the TMOST nor the Jein, so I can only conclude that it is our missing fourth P2. Incidentally, I think the shot might be from Space Seed. For the longest time I assumed it was a standard Redshirt but it’s not the right sleeve detail. Kahn’s people all wore those red coveralls with cuffs. I’m open to alternate theories, naturally.

 

[Gregatron]

No opinion needed. The scratches on the P1 wheel, while similar, are not a match. The lower P1’s wheel tells us it is the Nona. That’s a fact. The fins/fin boxes box on the P2’s are definably different. Another fact. The lower P2 is neither the Lenore, the TMOST nor the Jein, so I can only conclude that it is our missing fourth P2. Incidentally, I think the shot might be from Space Seed. For the longest time I assumed it was a standard Redshirt but it’s not the right sleeve detail. Kahn’s people all wore those red coveralls with cuffs. I’m open to alternate theories, naturally.

And here I thought we’d pretty firmly established that this was the 4th/unknown P2. It seems a little rougher in construction than the others, with the wider acrylic emitter, smooshed rear fins, etc. Which is probably why it didn’t get much attention.

It seems highly likely that our one good image of this hero is an outtake closeup from the deleted moment in “Space Seed” where Joaquin stuns McCoy. The background seems to match the Briefing Room set from that scene.

Maybe we should call it the Joaquin phaser.

 

[Chrisisall]

No opinion needed. The scratches on the P1 wheel, while similar, are not a match. The lower P1’s wheel tells us it is the Nona. That’s a fact. The fins/fin boxes box on the P2’s are definably different. Another fact. The lower P2 is neither the Lenore, the TMOST nor the Jein, so I can only conclude that it is our missing fourth P2. Incidentally, I think the shot might be from Space Seed. For the longest time I assumed it was a standard Redshirt but it’s not the right sleeve detail. Kahn’s people all wore those red coveralls with cuffs. I’m open to alternate theories, naturally.

Good catch on the sleeve detail.

 

[Tosfan1]

We know drilling make more sense as it works for the Tricorders.

We also know the less complicated the process is the better it is for any given application.

So we may assUme that the Jein never had a watch crown on it nor a rhinestone, as there would be some discernible blemish in that location. No hole, filled in hole, old glue residue or paint variation in that area.

It is interesting that the Jein ph1 had velcro on the bottom at one time and then was converted to a worn hero ph2 setup.

 

[feek61]

Just to clarify, these are the known 4 hero phasers:

 

[feek61]

No opinion needed. The scratches on the P1 wheel, while similar, are not a match. The lower P1’s wheel tells us it is the Nona. That’s a fact. The fins/fin boxes box on the P2’s are definably different. Another fact. The lower P2 is neither the Lenore, the TMOST nor the Jein, so I can only conclude that it is our missing fourth P2. Incidentally, I think the shot might be from Space Seed. For the longest time I assumed it was a standard Redshirt but it’s not the right sleeve detail. Kahn’s people all wore those red coveralls with cuffs. I’m open to alternate theories, naturally.

YES! It makes sense because in the scene on the Botany Bay when Khan hands a phaser to one of the other guys, it has the red jewel which is strong evidence that the Nona P2 photo is an outtake from that scene. The identification of the Nona in that scene is from my on-going research. The other P2's in seen in "Space Seed" appear to be the Conscience / Lenore / Riley.

My notes from this episodes showing the filming dates and the associated phaser:
24 – Space Seed – Two separate heroes are seen in this episode

12/20/66 – Khan’s guard has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley phaser in Briefing room

12/21/66 – Kirk has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley in the corridor after gassing Khan’s men

12/21/66 – Marla has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley in the transporter room

12/22/66 – Khan shows the Nona hero phaser to one of his men on the Botany Bay.

 

[Gregatron]

YES! It makes sense because in the scene on the Botany Bay when Khan hands a phaser to one of the other guys, it has the red jewel which is strong evidence that the Nona P2 photo is an outtake from that scene. The identification of the Nona in that scene is from my on-going research. The other P2's in "Space Seed" appear to be the Conscience / Lenore / Riley.

View attachment 1842884

View attachment 1842885

My notes from this episodes showing the filming dates and the associated phaser:
24 – Space Seed – Two separate heroes are seen in this episode

12/20/66 – Khan’s guard has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley phaser in Briefing room

12/21/66 – Kirk has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley in the corridor after gassing Khan’s men

12/21/66 – Marla has the Conscience / Lenore / Riley in the transporter room

12/22/66 – Khan shows the Nona hero phaser to one of his men on the Botany Bay.

I've also seen one still photo from a deleted scene of Khan and his people (with phasers, as I recall) on the Enterprise's transporter pad, coming aboard to take over the ship.

 

[Gregatron]

Just to clarify, these are the known 4 hero phasers:
View attachment 1842881

I'm glad you posted this, since it's an important reference and visual aid. It also illustrates why the Finney got the most love--it looks the nicest.

 

[Nicksdad]

I personally feel that the p1's were probably not interchangeable and I only feel this way because I have built a few hero's in my time from
fiberglass castings and both upper and lower castings of the p1 are hand trimmed and fitted. Then you take into account a P1 release mechanism hand made and hand fitted to each P2 body with slots hand cut and fitted to match. For me, that is a difficult enough task to accomplish to get the
P1 and P2 to match each other on just one phaser. To get all four to match, forget about it.

 

[Chrisisall]

I personally feel that the p1's were probably not interchangeable and I only feel this way because I have built a few hero's in my time from
fiberglass castings and both upper and lower castings of the p1 are hand trimmed and fitted. Then you take into account a P1 release mechanism hand made and hand fitted to each P2 body with slots hand cut and fitted to match. For me, that is a difficult enough task to accomplish to get the
P1 and P2 to match each other on just one phaser. To get all four to match, forget about it.

I feel like they were interchangeable to a DEGREE. Like out of the four, maybe two could be switched without much problem, but yeah, too much variance for all of them to do it.

 

[newworld]

And here I thought we’d pretty firmly established that this was the 4th/unknown P2.

Sorry - missed the memo on this. I’m havin’ a hell of a time keeping things straight. I just kept seeing the Nona reference without SS.

I agree that it should be identified from the episode but I’d suggest “Space Seed” since that is universally recognized. “Nona/Space Seed”?

 

[feek61]

I personally feel that the p1's were probably not interchangeable and I only feel this way because I have built a few hero's in my time from
fiberglass castings and both upper and lower castings of the p1 are hand trimmed and fitted. Then you take into account a P1 release mechanism hand made and hand fitted to each P2 body with slots hand cut and fitted to match. For me, that is a difficult enough task to accomplish to get the
P1 and P2 to match each other on just one phaser. To get all four to match, forget about it.

As someone who has built a number of props, I could not agree more!

On another topic and FWIW, the publicity stills of Kirk in the transporter room with the hero Conscience / Lenore / Riley phaser was shot on the same day, 9/16/66, that they filmed the scenes with Lenore holding the Conscience / Lenore / Riley phaser. Interesting that it was out and being filmed so they just used it for the publicity shots.

 

[TOS Phaser]

Okay, IMHO these are not the same P2's, and are clearly not the same P1's.

Agreed - I was not attempting to say the two Hero P2s shown were the same - they are not. I used those two photos - one an outtake shot of the "Unknown" P2 and one a closeup from "Court-Martial" of the Finney P2 to show the difference between the rear ends of the TMOST P1 and the Nona P1.

 

[feek61]

Sorry - missed the memo on this. I’m havin’ a hell of a time keeping things straight. I just kept seeing the Nona reference without SS.

I agree that it should be identified from the episode but I’d suggest “Space Seed” since that is universally recognized. “Nona/Space Seed”?

DONE!!!!

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I personally feel that the p1's were probably not interchangeable and I only feel this way because I have built a few hero's in my time from
fiberglass castings and both upper and lower castings of the p1 are hand trimmed and fitted. Then you take into account a P1 release mechanism hand made and hand fitted to each P2 body with slots hand cut and fitted to match. For me, that is a difficult enough task to accomplish to get the
P1 and P2 to match each other on just one phaser. To get all four to match, forget about it.

Gary is spot-on with these observations.

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

So we may assUme that the Jein never had a watch crown on it nor a rhinestone, as there would be some discernible blemish in that location. No hole, filled in hole, old glue residue or paint variation in that area.

It is interesting that the Jein ph1 had velcro on the bottom at one time and then was converted to a worn hero ph2 setup.

The Jein ph1 may have yes, yet I think WMC redid them so all of them could have the velcro and he only put it on certain ones.

Logic dictates with the limited supply of watch crowns he did two hero phasers with crowns and two without