Intresting StarWars Geek Question/Discussion

[Chevyh0tr0d]

So believe it or not while I was at ITT Tech somebody hearing me blast social D asked me this question after we had a 30 min long conversation. So here it is, it is kinda a two part question. If I get any technical things wrong please feel free to correct me I would love to go correct another Star Wars geek and have another discussion with him

Given that we both believed at the time of EP-3 Mace Windu was the second greatest Saber/Swordsman of the jedi order followed only by Yoda. Also he and I both assumed that Palpatine was older then Yoda since there has not been a Sith problem in Yoda's 900 years of life.

Given these 2 facts or assumptions here come the 3 questions I was asked.

1)Do you believe Palpatine was just toying with mace windu, as he forced yoda to retreat so easily, or do you believe it was something else.

2)Do you believe the age/wrinkles show on palpatine were due to the force damage(lightning he was hit with) or was his amount of sith corruption finally revealed by him not caring any more?

3)Do you think Windu should of expected Lightning?

My Answer to this questions was and probably still is

No I do not think he was, toying with windu using the facts of a dark horse comic I read a few years ago(unable to recall the name) but the guy had read it as well, Palpatine stays alive as long he does using clones. This was based on the facts I read in the DH comic that takes place shortly after RoTJ where Luke turns evil and is trying destroy a room of Palpatine clones. I believe that all though he maybe older then Yoda thanks to the use of his clones they do not bring bout "Muscle Memory" swordmanship, but just general memories such as his name etc which Yoda Had. So although his current clone/body would of been about 50 years old(guesstimating) with Windu being about the same age(guesstimating) both would have the same amount of "muscle memory" in swordmanship/saber tactics. This is why Windu was defeated, he also was defeated so easily to add suspense to the EP 3(The movie) as Lucas was building to a big crowd jeering moment when Yoda and Palpatine confronted each other. Another reason Windu was defeated was even though he had great jedi training being that he was human he let his emotions get the better of him for that 1 second when he went into his speech about how the sith would not rule again. At this point for anyone who has ever been in a street fight when you start thinking you have him, that is when everything changes and you just lost. Also during these few seconds he stopped expecting lightning from Palpatine and thus was defeated. Lastly I thought that the lines we see on Palpatine were due to the damage he receives from his force lightning cast reflected back on him, thus making his current clone unable to cloud/hide his true age.


Anyway feel free to chime in and discuss away, would love to hear others opinions and such

 

[Lost21stJedi]

The fact that Palpatine took out the other 3 Jedi so easily shows me that he could have taken Mace but he needed him alive when Anakin arrived. Palpatine needed Anakin to choose to turn of his own free will. Having Mace basically ready to kill Palpatine forced Anakin to make a decision. Anakin knew the only way to save Padme was to learn what Palpatine could teach him.

Also, Yoda already knew that Palpatine was very strong with the Dark Side. When Obi-Wan wanted to face him instead of confronting Anakin, Yoda told him that he wasn't strong enough. I personally believe that Palpatine even held back on the strength of the force lightning against Mace, just to appear weaker in front of Anakin.

As for the whole clone bodies theory, I discard that for now. Hopefully they won't go that route for Episode VII only because if that was so easy to do, why didn't he just clone Anakin's body and transfer his powers to a fully healthy clone as opposed to keeping him in the suit?

 

[jlee562]

Ahh, this old conversation....

I don't think Palpatine is older than Yoda. Although not explicitly stated in the film, other sources list Palpatine's birth as 82 BBY (or 82 years before the Battle of Yavin [i.e. A New Hope]). Secondly, the film does establish that Palpatine was apprentice to Darth Plagueis, which means that the Sith existed without the Jedi knowing for some unknown period of time.

I like the Mace Windu character so I may be biased in my belief that he had Palpatine beat until Anakin came along and spoiled it, but the counter to that argument is that Palpatine dispatched 3 other Jedi and Yoda. So who knows?

 

[Edwardowan]

one thing I've learned watching all the films is that they aren't complex, they are very straight forward cartoons for the most part and simplistic in plot and story. Kids have to be able to follow it since its really made for kids. So when palpatine told the senate "The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed" he is speaking of what actually happened and there is no other need or any reason to believe his face became what it is other than burning from the feedback of his own force lightening. We even witnessed it actually happening! (this event somewhat echoes what happens to vader later on... both are burned and are born of fire and ash) there is no "hidden reason" it is simply that he took the force lightening in the face! (now having said that this also answers the other question and yes, he could have taken out Windu but sensed Anakin was on his way, allowed himself to be put in the position he was in and to push anakin over Palpatine took the reflected lightening to look like he was being beaten and even assassinated right in front of Anakin... I'm sure if Anakin wasn't on the way Palpatine would have prevailed. He was the strongest sith yet!

3)Do you think Windu should of expected Lightning? Well, Yoda didn't. remember, Palpatine whacked Yoda with lightening too!

 

[naphaniel]

To me it has always been clear : Palpatine is never in danger during his duel with Windu, it's all part of his plan to force Anakin to cross the point of no return. the side effect of lightning was an poor (considering the failure of the makeup) and unnecessery trick to match with ESB Emperor's look

I don't consider SW as simple, especially the last trilogy, it's full of clever things and for youth a brilliant example of how democracy can be endangered, and somewat reminds of what happened at the time in world politics... it's full of dull and colorfull things, but beneath it it's kinda interesting for a toy seller entertainment.

 

[rodneyfaile]

I prefer to belive the prequels didn't happen. The version in my head of Vader taking out the Jedi is much better. However, I am looking forward to Episode VII though, because I have no idea what happened after ROTJ.

 

[Master Valon]

Palpatine is only 82 by the time of ANH, as someone else stated. I think he was toying with Windu, because as you said, he bested Yoda. As to the scars question, in a comic done by one of the concept artists, it shows that Palpatine is scarred like that because he has become twisted by the dark side, and that he makes a potion to keep his youthful appearance, the effects of which are reversed when he is exposed to the Sith lightning. It's his true form coming to light. And the reason that there hasn't been any sign of the Sith for so long is because of Darth Bane's Rule of Two. After Bane realized that the Sith's best weapon was secrecy, he feigned the order's death at Rusaan, took an apprentice, and went "off the grid", so to speak, and his apprentice went on to take an apprentice of hers, and so on and so forth for 2000 years, until the time of Sidious.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I think that Sidious was always in control. I think Mace was a great lightsaber duelist and could have even gone toe to toe with Dooku. However I think he was falling into the same thing that Yoda was talking about; that the Jedi were growing arrogant, "even the older ones". I think when they went to arrest Sidious, they were unprepared because they didn't appreciate what the Sith really were. It's been 1,000 years since the Sith went into hiding, so they were probably more of a boogeyman to the Jedi than an actual threat. If you have that kind of power that a Jedi has, and when no normal person can match you, you probably tend to have a too high opinion of your skill. Yoda was probably the only one who had a real appreciation for what the Sith were because he's old enough to have been alive when Masters who had faced the Sith still lived.

 

[Edwardowan]

I don't consider SW as simple, especially the last trilogy, it's full of clever things and for youth a brilliant example of how democracy can be endangered, and somewat reminds of what happened at the time in world politics... it's full of dull and colorfull things, but beneath it it's kinda interesting for a toy seller entertainment.

yes but its still just straight forward.. there isn't any "I wonder if they meant this by that?" sort of thing.. .you don't have to walk away wondering if there is a deeper underlying meaning to what you saw or heard... nothing is ambiguous is what I mean. it is a simple story and I don't see why anyone wouldn't take the force lightening scarring his face at face value (hey see what I did there? )

edit/update: RE: nothing is ambiguous is what I mean (well, then again the story and mention of being able to manipulate the midichlorians to create life was a bit ambiguous in that, was he suggesting Darth Plagueis the wise did this or Palpatine learned everything he knew and so was able to do this himself? or was he just saying this to make Anakin wonder if he was the creation of Sith powers. I personally feel palpy lied and is just as curious about Anakin's birth as anyone. so I'll give you that one!