i dont understand

[Star Wars Man]

i dont understand why these are like 60-70 dollars

i dont know much, but that seems like real cheap. now these are replicas yes but still...

and then blast techs flash hider is 95 bux?

idk something doesnt seem right coudl someone explain to me why if i want to make a han anh hero i think i need a:

65 dollar denix blaster replica.

a 65 dollar non functional scope.

a 40 dollar mounting bracket for that.

a 95 dollar flash hider

and a 15 dollar disk thing.

why do i have to pay nearly 300 dollars for this thing. now i know anh han is the most expensive. (i think) but like, i dont understand. it seems like it should be like 150 for the masuer tself and like 20 bux for a flash hider. deactivated sterlings are like over 300 (arent they?)

could someone explain this all to me?

 

[PHArchivist]

I'm not "in the know" here...

But I'll bet the answer you'll get is that the Mauser replicas are mass-produced, and the individual parts are customer machined which drives costs up...

 

[Darthmagpie]

Well it is manufacturing costs and demand. When something is cast it is cheeper, however the tooling is expensive so you have to plan on selling a lot. When something is machined, the tighter the tolorences, the materials, the machinability(how many operations) and quanity.

When someone offers something like a flash hider in machined metal. They are not buying 10,000 so the cost is more expensive because the machineshop can't put it in a CNC and hit go, because aCNC's time is too valuable for 20 pcs when you facter in set up and break down time. I could go on but if you start to think about these things it will start to make sense.

...And remember you can always get a resin one for less than $50, I believe, or you can make it.

 

[RedTwoX]

Originally posted by PHArchivist@Mar 5 2006, 01:10 PM
I'm not "in the know" here...

But I'll bet the answer you'll get is that the Mauser replicas are mass-produced, and the individual parts are customer machined which drives costs up...

[snapback]1199212[/snapback]​

That's a big part of it. The Denix Mauser is cast (you can see the mold lines in several places) out some cheap "pot" metal. They do huge runs, and therefore can allow a smaller profit margin on each individual piece. They are not particularly good replicas either.

On the other hand, an MGC (Model Gun Company out of Japan) Mauser is a highly accurate, machined replica. I don't know what they sold for new, but I've seen them go for $300 on the secondary market.

Darthmagpie gave a good account of the considerations for machining. There is a lot (a LOT) more expense in machining than there is in casting (at least at small scales, molds for mass production have to be machined in steel and that get's expensive). One thing that does remain the same is that the size of the production has an impact on the final cost of each individual unit. The larger the run, the more units there are to cover cost and turn a proifit. Therefore you can have a smaller mark up on each piece. Inversly, smaller runs have fewer units to cover cost and make a profit, so you have to mark each one a little bit more.

 

[FETTCLONE]

A machinist's time generally doesn't come cheap, either. It's a specialized trade so it costs a little more. I don't know exact prices, but if we assumed it was $30 an hour then a $95 dollar flash hider could be 2 hours machining ($60), $15 worth of aluminum, and a $20 set-up fee for changing the machinery to do the run. You'd probably be paying the same set-up fee whether you were making 1 or 100, but the larger run makes set-up cost a lot less per unit.

If the machinist's labour seems a little expensive, take into consideration that you're paying that person's hourly wage, plus a little more because companies almost always charge more (than they pay the employee) to ensure some profit, or else they're providing labour at cost (no money or incentive to do this for them).

Regardless of this, a seller will charge what they want for a given item, and the market will bear it out, or not. Shop around, think about scratch-building, or look into resin pieces to cut down your costs.

The market is also fairly slim for these items; there's probably only a handful of places you could even buy these components. That has an effect on pricing too.

Hope that helps explain a little.

 

[Jedirick]

IIRC the factory producing those Denix mausers has been destroyed. The nice $70 broomhandle may be a thing of the past. $70 is about double what I bought some for couple years back so...

 

[wuher da brewer]

Get out now. You're in the wrong hobby if you're worried about cost. My grandfather liked whittling and dumpster diving. Neither is a very expensive hobby and he was very good at both of them.

There is an alternative to the $95 muzzle. PropRunner is offering exact replicas for half that. The metal disc is not needed. There, you've saved some money already.

 

[RedTwoX]

Originally posted by wuher da brewer@Mar 5 2006, 08:06 PM
Get out now.  You're in the wrong hobby if you're worried about cost. 

[snapback]1199532[/snapback]​

Truer words have never been posted on this, or any other forum.

You are either going to be paying someone else to make the parts you need, or you are going to pay for the tools and materials to make them yourself. I've started pricing lathes and milling machines. It's looking like $3000-$4000 to get set up with both and only the very basic tooling for each. That would buy an arsenal of blast-tech.com blasters.

 

[hydin]

gotta slightly disagree with the above mentioned "head out now if you are worried about cost".

granted, this is pretty much a rich mans hobby, there ARE things and replicas made that aren't an arm and a leg. plus you can always build your own stuff from hardware pieces like plumbing tubes, pipes, etc.

the goal that needs to be set for this hobby is just understanding and budget. if you know from the outset that a replica of a rock will run you about 40 bucks, then you are ok. it might seem dumb to you, but that rock could be a replica piece of amber for a jurassic park fan, or a green rock for a smallville fan.

if you understand that a basic vader costume that looks remotely replica or prop related will run you several hundred dollars (talking about the rubies supreme), then you are off to a great start.

99% of the work, projects or just stuff you find online that are replicas or bits and pieces you use to build up kits or just small discs used for random things all have to be made, and generally in someones spare time. not everything used in every movie is something you can head off to wal mart and buy. making these takes time and effort, and thats why 3 dollars worth of resin can run you 50$, because you are paying the persons time and talent fees for making that particular part. its why $2 worth of aluminum may run you almost 100 bucks. the person making those pieces has to not only cover whats worth thier time and money, but the wear and tear on thier equipment, and the cost of the supplies anyway. it all adds up pretty fast.

as long as you keep your expectations normal and reasonable, then you can find a nitch in the hobby to go with, and it sounds like you already are going for the "self built" area anyway. i have seen BEAUTIFUL hardware sabers that match anything coming off the MR product line, made with maybe 30$ worth of various hardware parts. again, talent plays a big big part in this hobby. check out what chewie15 can do with about 50 bucks worth of oil based clay, or what playskool can do with a few bucks worth of pvc pipe and misc stuff he got from lowes.

the hobby can be very very expensive. if you dont realize that from the outset, you are setting yourself up for some serious serious disappointment in the long run.

personally, im not made of cash, and i have been in the hobby for years. i dont own many "high ended" pieces, but over the years its become less about the hobby itself and more about the friendships made in the hobby. just because i dont have the money for a monet or an original picasso doesnt mean i cant enjoy looking at it as much as the next guy. take the constantine brass knuckles thread. that is a perfect example of how something goes from idea to virtually completed replica. i may get one, it might be out of my price range, i dunno yet. it doesnt mean i dont appreciate the effort that went into it, and the talent it took to make it happen.

the best advice i can offer for you is just to sit back, think about what you want to spend your cash on, and what your money is worth to you. if that 300 bucks for the han blaster seems to be worth it to you, grab it, build it and enjoy it. if it seems kinda strange to spend that kinda cash, try looking for a resin replica of one and put it together and paint it. if the kits price seems outrageous to you, then you may want to rethink the hobby.

a platinum card isnt required to be in the hobby, but lord it helps sometimes :lol

hope you enjoy the stay
chris

 

[Sporak]

That's exactly what I was going to say...

Denix doesn't just make Mausers, they mass produce all kinds of replicas...They don't have it in their mind to make something that a SW fan is going to tear apart to make a Han Blaster...

Shoot. Be glad they ARE that cheap.

If you want to go cheap on this you can always find resin parts to add on...or the whole thing in resin for that matter...

Some of us get what we can, and upgrade the parts as we can afford it...
Hey, I'm over 1000.00 on my Ep4 Obi...and I'm not done yet.
I started with all resin parts...and eventually traded up for metal and ended up with 6 that I've built.

It takes time...and patience.

Get the mauser, get some wood grips...that's the basics, then work on the add ons...

Originally posted by PHArchivist@Mar 5 2006, 01:10 PM
But I'll bet the answer you'll get is that the Mauser replicas are mass-produced, and the individual parts are customer machined which drives costs up...

[snapback]1199212[/snapback]​

 

[wuher da brewer]

Of course if you're good with tools, then nothing is unattainable. I can't tell you the amazing builds I've seen out of the simplest of materials; paper, cardboard, styrene, wood, off the shelf items converted in a way that there base components could no longer be identified. Necessity sparks ingenuity. If you want it, perhaps you can figure out a way to make it. Check out the link in my signature to see a number of scratch built weapons.

 

[Jedi Lawja]

I used a resin muzzle suppressor on my first ANH Han. Later replaced with metal. I was lucky enough to find the correct scope at a gun-show for $5. The cross-hairs were fragged, but that was no problem for my use. There is no disk on the ANH Han - it was an area where a round disk had been glued then removed, taking paint with it. Check the builders clubs. BBC - Blaster Builders Club is a good one. You can make lots of what you need.

Jay