GINO
Sr Member
I have been repeatedly contacted by the RPF admin (synasp) for two instances that I called people out for recasting. GH and Dark Shadow.
Recently, I've been given the ultimatum to either prove beyond a shadow of a doubt proof of this or be banned from the RPF.
In the GH recasting fiasco, I did everything in my power to produce the "proof" necessary to validate my claims which ended in a Jeff's word vs. GH word. According to the admin, this was undecidable and left hanging.
In the Dark Shadow instance, I felt that we both had our say and as long as more of the buttons didn't show up, nothing more need come of it.
Synasp would not let the issue die and continued to send me threatening PM including a 2 day suspension from posting and the re-signing of the TOS of the RPF. When it was clear that this issue was not going to die, I repeatedly requested to speak with an admin over the phone as to how to best handle this and was denied. This made me feel as if the decision to ban me had already been made. I had been given a deadline of Monday 14th to provide evidence, apologize, or be banned.
Everyone knows that the arguments between myself and Sithlord are legend. Everyone knows that there is no love between us, and has seen cronyism run rampant in threads from his friends. During this whole conflict, it has come to my attention that Synasp and Sithlord are good friends. Such good friends that Synasp made Sithlord a moderator over at the propcircle forum. When I found this out, all the hassling that I've gotten over time from Synasp over any issue especially GH, started to make sense. I feared that I was unfairly being targeted and being set up for a banning guised as someone not wanting to follow the TOS of the RPF.
I requested to have another mod step in to handle the situation. I then received a PM from Bbabich that he was taking over this situation. I had never spoken to Bbabich nor do I have any knowledge of the nature of the relationship between Bbabich and Synasp. I do know that I received a huge stiff-arm from Babich when asked to communicate with him via phone. Not as an alternative to providing written documentation, but as a prelude. It felt to me very much like this had already been decided and this whole thing was just a dog and pony show.
So here's my response. It's long and not for the short attention spanned. But hopefully it provides insight into what went down and why and helps brings some understanding to what some consider poor form on my part.
Also, I've been trying to be more aware of the tone of my posts, so please note that when I type things in all caps, it's not because I'm yelling those words, it's because I am trying to emphasize or highlight them and don't know how to change text color.
A couple of weeks ago, I noticed a thread in the junkyard by Dark Shadow which was offering a vader chestbox with my greeblies on it.
When I saw it, I immediately pm'd Dark Shadow asking him what the deal was. At that time, I didn't know if he purchased the greeblies from someone else who recast them, or if he recast them himself and was now posting an "interest" thread in the JY. What I did know for sure was that they were indeed mine.
My first PM read as this:
"Scott,
Where did you get that chestbox?
Those upper black and lower gold greeblies are recast from one of my boxes. I'd like to know where they came from before I start kicking and stomping.
Please let me know asap what the deal is."
I then a few moments later sent a second PM saying this:
"Also the silver greeblies are mine as well.
WTF?"
I did not get a response, so I posted a thread in the main forum titled "Someone recast my chestbox greeblies". I copied and pasted the unedited first post that he made in the JY where the box was being offered into the new thread that I had just created.
Here was the Dark Shadow post that I copied and pasted from the JY:
HIS POST FROM THE JY:
"I have a chest box for sale. It includes aluminum rods, working lighted coin slots oscillating circuit and straps. The box has been painted with acrylic enamel automotive paint so its extremely durable.
I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box.
$375 plus shipping OBO"
(it included a pic of the box in question)
At that time, I still hadn't accused Dark Shadow of directly recasting my buttons because I did not know how he obtained them. The title of the thread I created in the main forum was still "Someone recast my chestbox greeblies".
It wasn't until I started thinking about this one very important line in his text that made me change my mind.
It was where he said "I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box."
I then immediately edited the title of the thread to read "Dark Shadow recast my chestbox greeblies"
THE REASON FOR THIS IS BECAUSE HOW ELSE COULD HE INCLUDE EXTRA GREEBLIES IF IT WASN'T HE HIMSELF OR A FRIEND WHO RECAST THEM.
This is the heart and sole of this accusation and to which I will keep referring back to later in this post.
HERE WAS MY FIRST POST:
"In the junkyard there is an esb chesbox for sale by dark shadow.
The upper black buttons, the lower gold buttons, the silver greeblies, and coinslots are all recasts of my pieces. They were all scratch built by me, I'd know them anywhere and I still have the masters.
This is EXACTLY why I don't share my stuff, or make the really cool stuff available.
Here is the box and his comments. The part where he states that he can make extra silver greeblies available is pretty damning to me. "
(and I posted a pic of the box)
IMPORTANT NOTE:
I have two versions of chestboxes. Ones that are cast off original (which I don't and never have made available), and ones that I scratch built (which I do make available).
People have asked, why would Dark Shadow try to sell something publicly that is easily identifiable as a GINO part. Surely he wouldn't be that foolish. And I agree.
The reason is this:
UNTIL I POSTED MY RESPONSE, DARK SHADOW DID NOT KNOW THAT THE GREEBLIES ON MY CHESTBOXES WERE SCRATCH BUILT.
When someone thinks something is cast off original, they don't think that anyone would be able to tell exactly what the source was. Also, a lot of people believe that it is open season on recasting original or found parts anyway.
I believe that once he came to this realization that they were my scratchbuilds, he began to backpedal.
Here is the PM that I received by him in response:
"Youre absolutely correct, they are yours. Heres the deal. I bought one of your chest boxes from someone (I dont remember the name) I removed the circuit board and lights,and silver greeblies and applied them to the one you see pictured (which is the one I have been using on my personal one) I kept the main box for myself and I am in the process of milling new more accurate greeblies out of aluminum myself (no offense) for my new box (made by you). If you want, I can mension that the greeblies and circuit are yours, no problem there.
Id sell my new box with copies of my new greeblies but I dont have them finished and I need rather quick cash... The coin slots are yours as well as I am using Custom built aluminum ones now. Let me know if youd like for me to mension your name and I will make that addition.
-Scott"
In his JY for sale thread, he stated and I quote: "I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box."
I believe wholeheartedly that he recast my buttons and that was what he had initially planned to provide as extras. It is the only plausible conclusion that I believe you can come to. If it was his own new milled greeblies, there was no mention of it in the for sale thread. NOT TO MENTION THAT THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST AT THIS POINT. He even mentioned in his pm that he needed a quick sale for cash. I believe that he had the extra buttons ON HAND.
ANOTHER IMPORTANT NOTE:
The box being offered in the JY by Dark Shadow was a ROTJ style box. To make an ESB style box, you would need to use DUPLICATE versions of the silver greeblies found on the ROTJ. How was he going to do this exactly if he didn't have more of them. Offer a different version of extra silver buttons that don't match? I think not. NO ONE would buy a box with mis-matching buttons. HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE DUPICATES OF THEM OR HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OFFER EXTRAS. AND THE ONLY WAY FOR HIM TO HAVE DUPLICATES WOULD BE IF HE RECAST THEM.
I believe that this was his intention. I suppose in hindsight what I should have done was have someone purchase his box with the extra greeblies. That would have given me the smoking gun evidence. But I didn't. I wish I had thought of it at the time. I did however ask him for close up photos up the greeblies on the box he was selling in the JY and was denied. I believe that these close up photos would at least help in determining whether the greeblies on his box for sale were my original buttons or recasts. I have pics of my stuff, but unless Dark Shadow is willing (or forced) to provide documentation on his end, then how could I possibly have "smoking gun" proof. He provided none nor was he forced to.
Which brings me to this...
As I have been given the ultimatum of apologize, provide smoking gun proof or be banned from the RPF I have no alternative but to apologize.
I apologize to Dark Shadow for making a post calling him a recaster of my items without smoking gun evidence in the form of a photograph.
Although I apologize for stating that claim as fact, I still maintain that belief to this very moment.
I don't think that because evidence (answers to my questions/photographs) weren't given to me from Dark Shadow, that I should be considered wrong by default. According to the admin (synasp), I fear this is how they view it. It's like demanding a chef to build you a cake, but then not giving him access to the kitchen.
Based on what I've laid out here, I would hope that people would understand why I would react the way I did, and why I believe what I do.
I feel that my presence on this forum has been one of contribution, although not always in the form of resin trinkets, or telling everyone EVERYTHING I know, but in the form of sharing what I can, trying my best to raise the bar on vader or trooper related items, or helping others with their projects. I realize that sometimes the way I come off in my posts can rub people the wrong way. For that I apologize as it's not my intention. Where there is a routine group of people, (and you know who I'm talking about) who are there to consistently dump on anything you say or post, it's going to bring out a little bit of "in your face" type of posts. If I do have a chip on my shoulder, I can tell you that this small group of people were the ones who put it there and it is for them, not everyone.
I don't think it is right to be banned for standing up for myself in the face of what I feel is a VERY plausible case of having my items recast. Whether there is photographic evidence or not, that shouldn't' be the end all be all in determining whether it has taken place or not. I suppose in the future, in a similar scenario, I would approach it by posting a thread saying something like, I have serious suspicions of being recast and here's why. I know that makes some people uncomfortable because those type of threads wouldn't always end with a definitive answer, but it is the only fair way to go especially when there is no definitive proof that the items AREN'T recast either. I don't think the RPF policy should be that the lack of smoking gun evidence on the front end of an accusation should eliminate discussion of the matter altogether. I think both sides should have their say (for as much as they feel they need to) and onlookers can make their own decisions based on that.
I can think of many times that I've baselessly been called a recaster by Vaderdarth and others of that crew. Why am I the only one being called to task on it? Especially, when in both cases that I've cried foul, I've done my best to lay it out or provide what I can to substantiate my claim.
I guess that's it. Sorry for the long read. Believe me, for as painful as it was for you to read it, it was double painful to write it.
I despise super long winded posts, but I do have a gun to my head so to speak.
Recently, I've been given the ultimatum to either prove beyond a shadow of a doubt proof of this or be banned from the RPF.
In the GH recasting fiasco, I did everything in my power to produce the "proof" necessary to validate my claims which ended in a Jeff's word vs. GH word. According to the admin, this was undecidable and left hanging.
In the Dark Shadow instance, I felt that we both had our say and as long as more of the buttons didn't show up, nothing more need come of it.
Synasp would not let the issue die and continued to send me threatening PM including a 2 day suspension from posting and the re-signing of the TOS of the RPF. When it was clear that this issue was not going to die, I repeatedly requested to speak with an admin over the phone as to how to best handle this and was denied. This made me feel as if the decision to ban me had already been made. I had been given a deadline of Monday 14th to provide evidence, apologize, or be banned.
Everyone knows that the arguments between myself and Sithlord are legend. Everyone knows that there is no love between us, and has seen cronyism run rampant in threads from his friends. During this whole conflict, it has come to my attention that Synasp and Sithlord are good friends. Such good friends that Synasp made Sithlord a moderator over at the propcircle forum. When I found this out, all the hassling that I've gotten over time from Synasp over any issue especially GH, started to make sense. I feared that I was unfairly being targeted and being set up for a banning guised as someone not wanting to follow the TOS of the RPF.
I requested to have another mod step in to handle the situation. I then received a PM from Bbabich that he was taking over this situation. I had never spoken to Bbabich nor do I have any knowledge of the nature of the relationship between Bbabich and Synasp. I do know that I received a huge stiff-arm from Babich when asked to communicate with him via phone. Not as an alternative to providing written documentation, but as a prelude. It felt to me very much like this had already been decided and this whole thing was just a dog and pony show.
So here's my response. It's long and not for the short attention spanned. But hopefully it provides insight into what went down and why and helps brings some understanding to what some consider poor form on my part.
Also, I've been trying to be more aware of the tone of my posts, so please note that when I type things in all caps, it's not because I'm yelling those words, it's because I am trying to emphasize or highlight them and don't know how to change text color.
A couple of weeks ago, I noticed a thread in the junkyard by Dark Shadow which was offering a vader chestbox with my greeblies on it.
When I saw it, I immediately pm'd Dark Shadow asking him what the deal was. At that time, I didn't know if he purchased the greeblies from someone else who recast them, or if he recast them himself and was now posting an "interest" thread in the JY. What I did know for sure was that they were indeed mine.
My first PM read as this:
"Scott,
Where did you get that chestbox?
Those upper black and lower gold greeblies are recast from one of my boxes. I'd like to know where they came from before I start kicking and stomping.
Please let me know asap what the deal is."
I then a few moments later sent a second PM saying this:
"Also the silver greeblies are mine as well.
WTF?"
I did not get a response, so I posted a thread in the main forum titled "Someone recast my chestbox greeblies". I copied and pasted the unedited first post that he made in the JY where the box was being offered into the new thread that I had just created.
Here was the Dark Shadow post that I copied and pasted from the JY:
HIS POST FROM THE JY:
"I have a chest box for sale. It includes aluminum rods, working lighted coin slots oscillating circuit and straps. The box has been painted with acrylic enamel automotive paint so its extremely durable.
I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box.
$375 plus shipping OBO"
(it included a pic of the box in question)
At that time, I still hadn't accused Dark Shadow of directly recasting my buttons because I did not know how he obtained them. The title of the thread I created in the main forum was still "Someone recast my chestbox greeblies".
It wasn't until I started thinking about this one very important line in his text that made me change my mind.
It was where he said "I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box."
I then immediately edited the title of the thread to read "Dark Shadow recast my chestbox greeblies"
THE REASON FOR THIS IS BECAUSE HOW ELSE COULD HE INCLUDE EXTRA GREEBLIES IF IT WASN'T HE HIMSELF OR A FRIEND WHO RECAST THEM.
This is the heart and sole of this accusation and to which I will keep referring back to later in this post.
HERE WAS MY FIRST POST:
"In the junkyard there is an esb chesbox for sale by dark shadow.
The upper black buttons, the lower gold buttons, the silver greeblies, and coinslots are all recasts of my pieces. They were all scratch built by me, I'd know them anywhere and I still have the masters.
This is EXACTLY why I don't share my stuff, or make the really cool stuff available.
Here is the box and his comments. The part where he states that he can make extra silver greeblies available is pretty damning to me. "
(and I posted a pic of the box)
IMPORTANT NOTE:
I have two versions of chestboxes. Ones that are cast off original (which I don't and never have made available), and ones that I scratch built (which I do make available).
People have asked, why would Dark Shadow try to sell something publicly that is easily identifiable as a GINO part. Surely he wouldn't be that foolish. And I agree.
The reason is this:
UNTIL I POSTED MY RESPONSE, DARK SHADOW DID NOT KNOW THAT THE GREEBLIES ON MY CHESTBOXES WERE SCRATCH BUILT.
When someone thinks something is cast off original, they don't think that anyone would be able to tell exactly what the source was. Also, a lot of people believe that it is open season on recasting original or found parts anyway.
I believe that once he came to this realization that they were my scratchbuilds, he began to backpedal.
Here is the PM that I received by him in response:
"Youre absolutely correct, they are yours. Heres the deal. I bought one of your chest boxes from someone (I dont remember the name) I removed the circuit board and lights,and silver greeblies and applied them to the one you see pictured (which is the one I have been using on my personal one) I kept the main box for myself and I am in the process of milling new more accurate greeblies out of aluminum myself (no offense) for my new box (made by you). If you want, I can mension that the greeblies and circuit are yours, no problem there.
Id sell my new box with copies of my new greeblies but I dont have them finished and I need rather quick cash... The coin slots are yours as well as I am using Custom built aluminum ones now. Let me know if youd like for me to mension your name and I will make that addition.
-Scott"
In his JY for sale thread, he stated and I quote: "I can include extra silver greeblies if you want an empire version box."
I believe wholeheartedly that he recast my buttons and that was what he had initially planned to provide as extras. It is the only plausible conclusion that I believe you can come to. If it was his own new milled greeblies, there was no mention of it in the for sale thread. NOT TO MENTION THAT THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST AT THIS POINT. He even mentioned in his pm that he needed a quick sale for cash. I believe that he had the extra buttons ON HAND.
ANOTHER IMPORTANT NOTE:
The box being offered in the JY by Dark Shadow was a ROTJ style box. To make an ESB style box, you would need to use DUPLICATE versions of the silver greeblies found on the ROTJ. How was he going to do this exactly if he didn't have more of them. Offer a different version of extra silver buttons that don't match? I think not. NO ONE would buy a box with mis-matching buttons. HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE DUPICATES OF THEM OR HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OFFER EXTRAS. AND THE ONLY WAY FOR HIM TO HAVE DUPLICATES WOULD BE IF HE RECAST THEM.
I believe that this was his intention. I suppose in hindsight what I should have done was have someone purchase his box with the extra greeblies. That would have given me the smoking gun evidence. But I didn't. I wish I had thought of it at the time. I did however ask him for close up photos up the greeblies on the box he was selling in the JY and was denied. I believe that these close up photos would at least help in determining whether the greeblies on his box for sale were my original buttons or recasts. I have pics of my stuff, but unless Dark Shadow is willing (or forced) to provide documentation on his end, then how could I possibly have "smoking gun" proof. He provided none nor was he forced to.
Which brings me to this...
As I have been given the ultimatum of apologize, provide smoking gun proof or be banned from the RPF I have no alternative but to apologize.
I apologize to Dark Shadow for making a post calling him a recaster of my items without smoking gun evidence in the form of a photograph.
Although I apologize for stating that claim as fact, I still maintain that belief to this very moment.
I don't think that because evidence (answers to my questions/photographs) weren't given to me from Dark Shadow, that I should be considered wrong by default. According to the admin (synasp), I fear this is how they view it. It's like demanding a chef to build you a cake, but then not giving him access to the kitchen.
Based on what I've laid out here, I would hope that people would understand why I would react the way I did, and why I believe what I do.
I feel that my presence on this forum has been one of contribution, although not always in the form of resin trinkets, or telling everyone EVERYTHING I know, but in the form of sharing what I can, trying my best to raise the bar on vader or trooper related items, or helping others with their projects. I realize that sometimes the way I come off in my posts can rub people the wrong way. For that I apologize as it's not my intention. Where there is a routine group of people, (and you know who I'm talking about) who are there to consistently dump on anything you say or post, it's going to bring out a little bit of "in your face" type of posts. If I do have a chip on my shoulder, I can tell you that this small group of people were the ones who put it there and it is for them, not everyone.
I don't think it is right to be banned for standing up for myself in the face of what I feel is a VERY plausible case of having my items recast. Whether there is photographic evidence or not, that shouldn't' be the end all be all in determining whether it has taken place or not. I suppose in the future, in a similar scenario, I would approach it by posting a thread saying something like, I have serious suspicions of being recast and here's why. I know that makes some people uncomfortable because those type of threads wouldn't always end with a definitive answer, but it is the only fair way to go especially when there is no definitive proof that the items AREN'T recast either. I don't think the RPF policy should be that the lack of smoking gun evidence on the front end of an accusation should eliminate discussion of the matter altogether. I think both sides should have their say (for as much as they feel they need to) and onlookers can make their own decisions based on that.
I can think of many times that I've baselessly been called a recaster by Vaderdarth and others of that crew. Why am I the only one being called to task on it? Especially, when in both cases that I've cried foul, I've done my best to lay it out or provide what I can to substantiate my claim.
I guess that's it. Sorry for the long read. Believe me, for as painful as it was for you to read it, it was double painful to write it.
I despise super long winded posts, but I do have a gun to my head so to speak.
