Eastern Alliance Destroyer Photos on Modeler's Magic site

[kitbasher]

I was just made aware that well over 100 photos I took several years ago of the original Eastern Alliance Destroyer miniature have been posted on Kurt Kuhn's Modeler's Miniatures website.

While I appreciate being credited with taking the photos, I am dismayed that no permission for their use was sought by Kurt or other involved parties.

I find it particularly ironic that Kurt "admits" the photos were taken by someone else (me) and yet did not think it necessary to ask if they could be displayed online in a public setting.

As it happens, I don't mind sharing the photos with studio scale fans-- but there is NO excuse for them being posted without my permission.

Were no lessons learned from the Red Five controversy?

'Basher
(Doug)

 

[SVTStingRay]

(runs to grab popcorn) here we go again :rolleyes

 

[ralphee]

Thats about his style im afraid Doug, guess i pity him in a way in the fact, he probably sits in anticipation of one of these very threads to increase his notoriety somewhat.
Guess he just loves the spotlight, and is smarting not many will give him the time of day after his recent brainfarts.

Best advice, show him nothing, give him nothing, maybe one day, he will actually crawl back under a rock and stop harming the hobby further, by closing already hard to open doors.

Its ironic, all he set out to do with his big statements, non of it is coming to fruition, its all going in quite the reverse for him, but i guess one can only bang ones head on the same brick wall, till it starts to really hurt.

In the words of the Smut Peddlers "repeat offender, here we go again"

lee

 

[Wolvster1]

Sorry to you Doug for having to
find out the " hard " way......

If it's ANY consolation, you need not fear for
he WILL pop up sooner or later and offer up
yet ANOTHER apology about what he SHOULDN'T
have done......

Followed by an long winded tirade about

" INSERT WHATEVER REASON HERE THIS TIME "

and all will be forgiven because he, well, YOU KNOW,
feels' BAD about what he did...:rolleyes

And the best advice of all is from LEE, to HIM you listen !

:cool

 

[Lear60man]

Hey Doug,
You lost control the second you posted them on the web or gave them to someone else. Other observation, you have been a member since 2007 and have contributed what in 13 posts? Before you start a rally cry, give a little to to the community.
Christian

 

[Wolvster1]

Sooooooo, by THAT logic someone who " knows "
people in the FX world and has created lifelong
friendships and is untrusted with information and
NEVER posts it out of RESPECT to those long
forged relationships is a JERK for not

" giving "

away his stash of goodies for free ? :confused

 

[moffeaton]

Why is any one surprised when Kurt's massive ego is involved? THAT is the reason he gobbles up everything in his path, and THAT is his motivation for stabbing everyone in the back - he somehow thinks that everyone will love him, because he's the "Robin Hood" of pictures. All he's accomplished in being a studio scale cheerleader, all the inroads he made with industry people, and all the friendships he made with talented artisans - thrown away.

Sure, it's GREAT that reference gets out to everyone that wants it. It's inspiring, it's a wonderful look into the skilled craft/lost art of miniature making from the 70s and 80s, and it's really helpful to every modeler out there.

But man, he sure knows how to make people abhor him. There is no such thing as honor with Kurt Kuhn. There is no such thing as trust with Kurt Kuhn, and it will continue until every last jpeg on his harddrive is laid bare on the internet.

Shrug. Nothing any one can do about it. Just take the lesson learned like I did, and move on.

 

[kitbasher]

Hey Doug,
You lost control the second you posted them on the web or gave them to someone else. Other observation, you have been a member since 2007 and have contributed what in 13 posts? Before you start a rally cry, give a little to to the community.
Christian

Christian,

You're kidding me, right?

First off, I never posted the photos on the web... that's the whole point. I traded a set to someone years ago. It was a private trade.

As for being a member since 2007, I've been a member since the late 90's but my old screen ID was lost years ago.

And what does it have to do with anything anyway?? I've got news for you chief-- I've been in this game longer than most people on here. Plenty of people can vouch for that.

As for "giving"--I SAID in my post above that I was willing to share the photos with people, but that permission should have been sought for their use.

So, before you post more nonsense, get your facts straight next time. Your position on this, as well as KK's is indefensible. PERIOD.

 

[Jedi Dade]

Post count should not have - and if fact does not have any relationship to the validity of the statements posted. To even imply otherwise is just looking to cause trouble where none should exist...

For the most part I've stayed clear of the Kurt debates... but this is just getting stupid... The goal of sharing information is a good one, however there has GOT TO BE SOME CONSCIENCE INVOLVED about how its shared so that the source don't suffer irreparable harm... How hard of a concept is that to understand. And not even trying to contact the source of the reference smacks of a total lack of consideration that there ARE SERIOUS CONSECQUENCES to people when certain things are release. Just because that may not be the case in this instance does not negate the lack of fore thought.... Jeeze!

Jedi Dade

 

[imaginager]

Hey Doug,
You lost control the second you posted them on the web or gave them to someone else. Other observation, you have been a member since 2007 and have contributed what in 13 posts? Before you start a rally cry, give a little to to the community.
Christian

I can see where your perspective would be popular with a select group on RI. However, the interesting part here is that one person figures into all of these recent incidents where reference and trust have been abused. It's beyond coincidence, beyond absentmindedness, beyond contrivance and well beyond rationalization. Candidly, it's intentionally malicious and self-destructive.

 

[emojo5]

WOW. Christian. Your really going to make a judgement call based on how many posts someone has? Do you really think that's what makes the difference on this site? Then either you haven't been around here very long or you just don't know better.

I've known Doug for over 10 years and I can tell you that he is very well know in the studio scale community and has been since it's beginning. Just ask Beaz or Frank Cerney or Steve Neisen or Chris Pappas or Ed Miarecki to name a few. Doug would never tell you himself, but the guy is the best at finding kit parts. The best. Period. All of those SS lists that people whine for on these boards, many of the parts on them were originally found by Doug, many years ago. Maybe you should do your homework before making such an uneducated assumption. Or easier still, ask someone else instead of driving up your post count.

I know, I know. I don't have that many post either. That means nothing to me. I prefer to keep a very low profile around here. I believe in the idea that I'd rather be searching for mystery kit parts then taking part in some bull***** discussion that has very little point to begin with.

-emojo5

 

[imaginager]

Merit of the discussion, notwithstanding.

KK says he's never changed his position (like any good politician). But, here's the scoop Sherwood: Once upon a time Robin Hood hosted an FTP server to help a small group of 30 or so kitmakers and scratchbuilders share information and reference among themselves for business and personal use. The only condition for access to the site was agreeing not to share any uploaded material outside the group. So, clearly, KK has changed his position. He not only agreed to keep information confidential, he would STILL be doing so if the group hadn't dissolved. And you, citizens of Sherwood, would still be squinting at your ERTL/MPC boxart...instead of ILM gravy. Whether he's now rationing out the information from his FTP server (or, as he likes to assert, identical information he has 'received from others') is irrelevent to his change in position. So, please do keep in mind how situational are the politics of reference sharing. Few object to your having it. Many object to the manner in which it is being provided.

Perhaps there should be a pool to speculate on what KK will ration out, next. Still some good Slave I pics...

 

[CJP]

Is my post count good enough to vouch for Doug / Basher? I've known Doug for more than a decade and all of his merits mentioned here, and more, are true. His reputation is beyond reproach.

The posting of Doug's photos is reprehensible. The fact that they were given, traded or sold to ONE party (or for the sake of arguement, a half of a million parties) by Doug does not relinquish license to that one party, or any subsequent parties to do what they please with the photos.

They're Doug's photos to do with, or not do with, what HE pleases.

Posting or further distribution, not only infringes upon his copyright, it's just not moral.

For the weak of mind that can't quite get their head wrapped around this, here are a couple of an analogies to help you limp along:

If one buys a book, whether hardcopy or electronic, is it okay to scan the book and post it online, or upload the electronic version? You came across the book legally, right? And it's a good thing for you to want to share it with others, right?

If one buys a DVD, is it okay to upload it or make a few copies for your friends? You bought the book legally, right? And it's a good thing for you to want to share it with others, right?

The bottom line is that no matter who Doug relinquished copies (but not license) of his photos to, there is no logical arguement that can be made that would result in the empowerment of anyone but Doug to post or copy his photos.

 

[Commander Max]

What I want to know is how many times is Kurt going to do this, before he realizes it's fruitless. He posted a minor ship from the old BSG days. We in the SSM community find it interesting, but nothing that is going to give him the kind of praise he seeks. Like I said before I feel sorry for the guy.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I was just made aware that well over 100 photos I took several years ago of the original Eastern Alliance Destroyer miniature have been posted on Kurt Kuhn's Modeler's Miniatures website.

Question: From the description on KK's website it sounds as if Jon Billings also had access to the images in question. Is it possible he shared them with Kurt?

Just asking.

 

[kitbasher]

Question: From the description on KK's website it sounds as if Jon Billings also had access to the images in question. Is it possible he shared them with Kurt?

Just asking.

I have it on reliable authority that Jon is not the source for my photos. In fact--from what I understand-- He wasn't asked for permission to post his personal EAD photos either. So, apparently I'm not the only one in this boat.

 

[CJP]

Jon Billings had no access to Doug's photos, and in fact, Jon Billings did not share any of the other EA photos with Kurt Kuhn, nor was he consulted prior to them being posted, although he was a subject of several of the photos.

Edit after seeing Doug's post:

Jon did not take any of the non-Doug posted, he allowed them to be taken while he owned the model. The stipulation was that they be kept private. Unfortunately, they way copyright law works, Jon has no copyright to the photos, and therefore, no issue with Kurt Kuhn, only with the photographer who did not adhere to the stipulation of privacy for the privilege of taking the photos.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Gotcha.

I only asked because I know Jon has shared stuff with K in the past.

 

[Lear60man]

Doug,

Sorry about the low post count remark. As others have stated, you have contributed a lot to the hobby and that deems respect. So kudos to you.

My position remains the same on the pics: the second you post them on the net or trade them, you loose control. I have had to sign multiple non disclosure agreements over the years. The second I tell a secret about someone.............it is no longer a secret.

Christian

 

[CJP]

My position remains the same on the pics: the second you post them on the net or trade them, you loose control.

Absolutely false. Trading, selling or giving photos, the copyright remains that of the photographer (or who hired the photographer) unless the copyright is explicitly transferred.

It's too bad when someone you trusted decides to perform an illegal (or immoral) act, but control of the photos does not transfer.

Another analogy, Stephen King writes a book and he gives you a copy. This does not transfer any rights to you. You cannot start making copies of it.

Or, Stephen King writes a book and he gives a copy to some immoral piece of crap. The IPoC makes a copy and gives it to you, tells you that you can post it online and you stupidly do so. You even go so far post along with the book, "Thanks for writing such a great book, Mr. King."

Despite what you were told by the IPoC, you have committed copyright infringment and Stephen King not only has a right to demand the removal of the book, but he now has an actionable case against you and you can tell your side to the judge and hope for mercy.