Dying Fabric?

[n0x23]

I'm currently making a Jawa costume for my daughter, I've got 4 yrds. of beige Monk Cloth, I've put a seam around the perimeter to keep it from fraying...Now I need to dye the being fabric.

About how much dye to I need?

Is powdered RIT any different then the liquid?

Should I wash and dry the fabric before dying, if so, should it be hot or cold water, cool dryer or air dry?

If dying it before washing is better, should I saturate the fabric with water before dying?

I've read different opinions about the mix of dye to get the most accurate color...something like brown, some orange and some black...does anyone have experience with this combination?

 

[n0x23]

I know these may be very remedial questions, but I'm on a limited budget and I can't afford to screw anything up.

I could use all the advice I can get.

 

[PadawanLearner]

I personally wouldn't suggest RIT, but if that's what you're seeing on whatever tutorial/sites, then I'd say go with it. And since you most likely won't want to wash the costume after you dye it, it shouldn't matter anyway
I can't really give you advice about proportions and what colors but I can tell you that typically you want to wash fabric before you do anything with it.
If you're worried about it shrinking too much, avoid hot water. Also you want to dye it before you sew it unless you've purposely purchased thread with the same material type as the material you are dying. Different materials take dye differently.
Follow the instructions on the package and you should be fine.

Edit: I also wouldn't suggest dying the fabric in anything you want to keep for anything other than dying. When I died my material for my Obi-wan, I bought a tub specifically to dye the fabric in.

 

[moviebuff5]

The instructions with RIT are pretty good from what I remember.

I would recommend washing it as hot as the fabric allows to shrink it and get any sizing out of the fabric. The dye bath is going to be warm to hot anyway so the fabric is likely going to shrink. Don't bother drying it unless you can't get it to they dye bath. Check the instructions, but I am pretty sure they recommend getting the fabric thoroughly wet before dying so it takes the dye evenly.

The quantity of dye all depends on how much water you are using.

Test a section of fabric to see how quickly the fabric absorbs color so you don't get the whole thing too dark. Once you the timing down you can dye the whole thing. If you can keep the dye bath for a while, do. Once you get the fabric rinsed and dried it may be lighter than you thought.

As for the difference, liquid is more convenient since there is nothing to dissolve, but there is typically a larger selection of color in the powdered dye.

 

[LadyMdej]

If you want to use something other than RIT, I highly recommend the advice and how-to's over at http://www.dharmatrading.com as well as their dyes. Their advice is free, too, and their staff are super helpful.

I've been a happy customer of theirs for a long time

 

[jme3]

Great project. :thumbsup

I have visited that same one off and on for a few years now, most recently having ended up with color combinations on my two Ralph Lauren blankets as seen in my post here:
http://www.therpf.com/showpost.php?p=1176025&postcount=79
from this thread here:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=78471

The one on the left, the brown color, is the brown I hoped to achieve from the original, uncranked, ANH robes; the one on the right is a bit more in line with the scarlet brown color as seen in the Chronicles book and also the Special Edition / reworked ANH.

They both started out as beige blankets and both ended up being the scarlet color, which was a mix of dark brown, cocoa brown and scarlet, the proportions of which were something like (liquid RIT dye) 3 parts dark brown, 1.5 parts cocoa brown and 1 part scarlet. Then, to achieve the dark brown, I used 3 bottles of dark brown to re-dye one of the more scarlet color blankets, ending up with the color on the left, which I favor.

I'm not a proponent or an opponent of RIT dye either way; it's just that it's simply the most ubiquitous thing on the shelf. If you were intending to ever dye anything black, however, I could definitely say try something else, or a professional dye service, because you will NEVER get anything pitch black with RIT dye. But to more directly answer your questions, you should always pre-soak your fabric before dyeing. No lengthy soaking is necessary, just enough to get it wet. Let it spin out in your washer and then add it to the washer tub that's been filled with HOT water and the pre-dissolved / thoroughly-mixed dye. Then add the wet fabric back into the tub to soak for atleast an hour or so. Agitate intermittently to redistribute the fabric for even dyeing, then drain, rinse/spin dry, and put into your dryer.

Finished goods. :thumbsup

 

[mdb]

I do home dyeing a heck of a lot and have some advice based on that

Read the instructions. It tells you how to weight he fabric how much dye to use and any other fixes or mordants you may need.

That said there are a few issues implied but not spelled out o the pack:
Cotton takes dye very quickly compared to other fibres. This means the risk of splotches and patches increases remarkably no matter how careful you are.
It is best to damp the fabric before you put it in the dye bath (and it depends on what method you use) so that the dye is slightly delayed in getting into the fibres. Sometimes you can have patches just from putting the fabric in the bath (the first stuff goes in a few seconds before the rest and that can be enough). I do like to make sure it is more than damp but far from sopping- if too wet it will inhibit much dye getting in by causing dilution.
Always use hot water even if the dye says "cold water dye", like with Dylon, heat always helps dye as it opens the fibres of the cloth as opposed to shocking them closed with cold water.

I use at least twice as much dye as recommended and will often throw in random fabric after to see what else I can get soem colour from

I do not use the machine to dye as it is an expensive pieces of equipment but a large 60-100L plastic container will do the trick so long as you are able to aggitate it for long enough.

Also if you use a powder you much really take a lot of care in mixing it in the water. You can get a few particles that do not dissolve immediately and you will get small intense spots of colour and often of a shade you don't want- dye is not pure pigment but mixtures and a brown will definitely contain reds and blues and greens as well as yellows. I like to mix it with water boiled form the kettle in a small sealable container and mix that back and forth with a slightly larger container and so on until I pour it into the dye bath.

 

[Darth Mule]

Before I go into any detail here, I will tell you why my opinion matters... I actually teach dying basics to college costume technicians, so it is a subject I have studied quite a bit.

I do have to say that it is a myth that hot water opens the pores of the fabric. It actually shrinks the fibers, so it is essentially backwards thinking that cold shocks them shut and hot opens them. Fabrics are much more comfortable in cooler water temperatures. What Hot water does do is more thoroughly dissolve the dyes and other agents and keep them broken down. This is why dye baths are typically hot. However, if you dissolve the dye in boiling water and then add to a lukewarm bath, you will often get as good a result with less shrinkage. However, there are certain fibers that can be quite stubborn and require almost having the dyes cooked into them.

I agree with MDB, as I usually do, that you should double up on whatever the recommended dosage is with the RIT. However, I find the washing machine to be the most efficient method of dying as the constant agitation tends to leave you with less splotching. You can clean the machine afterward with a bleach load, which is adding a cup of bleach to an wash cycle with no actual laundry in it.

Dharma Trading, already mentioned, is a great resource for your dying needs. They have some fiber reactive dyes that achieve much better results on cotton than RIT will. If you decide to go this route, follow the instructions with the dye and remember to purchase soda ash or whatever the dye calls for.

Preparing Fabric:
Always prepare your fabric for dying by washing it with detergent or synthropol. This will remove the sizings from the fabric and prepare it to accept the dye. Do not dry it. You want it to be damp when you add it to the dye bath. Do not put the fabric into the bath until the bath is fully prepared. The fabric goes in last.

Preparing Dyebath (with RIT dye):
Start your dyebath, whether it be in a pot on the stove, or in the washing machine. Remember that you need enough room for the fabric to move around in. With 4 yards the machine on a super load will be a good size. Start the load and fill the machine with water, then stop it. Heat some water on the stove separately. If you have the bottled dye, you may add it directly to the machine and agitate the water for a few minutes to mix it in (2 bottles should do it and then some). If using powder, Get a heat proof cup or container and pour your dye in (3-4 packets depending on how dark you want it should work for that much fabric). Add just enough boiling water to stir the powder into a paste. Then add more and stir until dissolved. it may take a few minutes to get all the grains to dissolve. Especially since there red grains in the brown dye and reds are the hardest to dissolve. Once dissolve treat as the liquid dye and agitate in the dyebath to mix. Now in another container, pour half cup of plain salt per pound of dry fabric in and add boiling water and mix till dissolved. Add to bath and agitate to mix. Be sure to do these separately and in this order as the salt will prevent the dye granules from mixing together if added first, or with the dye.

With the machine still agitating, gently add the fabric and (if using the machine) let the agitation drag the fabric in. Let it run its full cycle and when it finishes the spin cycle it should hopefully be a shade darker than you want it (fabric is darker when wet). If dying in a pot let it get 3-4 shades darker as it will get lighter when you rinse it,and lighter again when you dry it.

Hope this helps.. I know its alot of info.. But that's my dyeing fabric 101 in a forum post.

 

[n0x23]

PadawanLearner, moviebuff5, LadyMdej, jme3, mdb, Darth Mule

Wow!
Thank you all very much, you've helped alleviate a lot of the questions I had and more importantly, the ones I didn't know to ask.

jme3

The one on the left, the brown color, is the brown I hoped to achieve from the original, uncranked, ANH robes; the one on the right is a bit more in line with the scarlet brown color as seen in the Chronicles book and also the Special Edition / reworked ANH.

See I think they both look right, but in my head I remember them to have more of a scarlet hue, like the one on the right.

So is this a screen-cap from the re-worked ANH?

It's really hard to tell actually, since the color changes so drastically depending on their surroundings and lighting. :confused

Even these two pictures here from Hobo Wan Kenobi, are so drastically diffrent.

(liquid RIT dye) 3 parts dark brown, 1.5 parts cocoa brown and 1 part scarlet. Then, to achieve the dark brown, I used 3 bottles of dark brown to re-dye one of the more scarlet color blankets, ending up with the color on the left, which I favor.

I picked up the dye before I read your post, but I ended getting, 2 Dark Browns, 1 Scarlet and a Tangerine.

With your experience do you think that's going to look more like the material on the right, or the material on the left of your picture, or neither?

Darth Mule

You can clean the machine afterward with a bleach load, which is adding a cup of bleach to an wash cycle with no actual laundry in it.

This will save me a ton of time and elbow grease using the washing machine.
Are there any other precautions I should take before or after using this method?

Preparing Fabric:
Always prepare your fabric for dying by washing it with detergent or synthropol. This will remove the sizings from the fabric and prepare it to accept the dye. Do not dry it. You want it to be damp when you add it to the dye bath. Do not put the fabric into the bath until the bath is fully prepared. The fabric goes in last.

Fabrics are much more comfortable in cooler water temperatures.

Should I use a cold or luke-warm water temperature when doing the pre-wash?

 

[n0x23]

Well, the color turned how I wanted it and I thought I followed the directions to a tee, but I ended up with light blotches all over the fabric.

I'm not sure what I did wrong...

I tried to use the washer method but it's a water saving model and doesn't fill up, so I used the large garage sink ( I rinsed it out before-hand), there was plenty of room and I thought I agitated it enough...I don't know.

If I were to dye it a second time tomorrow, would that even out the color, I hope?

 

[jme3]

Hi nOx23,

Glad to be helpful.

You are right in that both colors could be considered the right one depending on the lighting and scene. In either version of the movie the scarlet color is there; the jawa I'm trying to recreate is the Jack Purvis head jawa and, for whatever reason, the color of his robe is more of the flat brown than scarlet in either brightly lit scenes or shadow scenes. You have some room to maneuver with this prop/costume since they varied from one to the other in ANH. Notice on the left side of this foldout photo the two girls on either side of Jack Purvis; the girl on the left has a more cocoa brown robe where the girl on the right has a more dark brown robe. On the right side of the foldout the girl on the left has what could be called the more scarlet brown robe and the fully-cloaked jawa on the right is, again, a more brown color. These images are all in the same lighting and, presumably, taken somewhere within the same day (?), so the color differences were definitely there.

You mentioned that you'd gotten a tangerine colored dye. My very first attempt at a jawa robe years ago used a sunshine orange in the mix IIRC and it came out more on the side of the color in ROTJ. Neither of the two of mine pictured previously contained any sort of orange so I can't say with certainty how using that in your mix would come out, but I'd think it would be different to either of them.

So many different factors come into play when trying to do these sorts of things that ultimately, it's really just a matter of trial and error. Money doesn't grow on trees to be sure, but in the grand scheme of things fabric is relatively inexpensive and the dye is also, so with the basics of the procedure securely under your belt you can play around with the color combinations until you get exactly what you're after.

Good luck and keep us posted! :thumbsup

 

[jme3]

I didn't even see your post here...:wacko

Glad to hear your color turned out to your liking but I can't say that I know why you'd have gotten splotchy results. I've always used the washer method (classic washing machine type) and the results, in terms of even dyeing, have always been good. You could re-dye and see if that solves the problem...

Well, the color turned how I wanted it and I thought I followed the directions to a tee, but I ended up with light blotches all over the fabric.

I'm not sure what I did wrong...

I tried to use the washer method but it's a water saving model and doesn't fill up, so I used the large garage sink ( I rinsed it out before-hand), there was plenty of room and I thought I agitated it enough...I don't know.

If I were to dye it a second time tomorrow, would that even out the color, I hope?

 

[n0x23]

I'm trying to recreate is the Jack Purvis head jawa and, for whatever reason, the color of his robe is more of the flat brown than scarlet in either brightly lit scenes or shadow scenes.

Oh okay, that makes sense.
Is he the guy in the middle with the hat on?
It looks like his cuffs are hemmed and not the frayed like the others.

Thanks for the pictures, I've seen the one on the right, but the left one is totally new to me.
Very cool. :thumbsup

I didn't even see your post here.

No worries.

So I ran back up to Joanns and grabbed another couple boxes of Dark Brown, a Scarlet and a bottle of Wine, I tried looking for a bottle of Jack Daniels, but they were all sold out. :lol

But I think the Wine will look better than the Tangerine, or the Sunshine Orange.

It's rinsing in the washer now, so we'll see.

I still used the same sink method.
I went to a Laundromat, but I couldn't control the length of agitation, so I opted to do it by hand again, although I modified alot of what I did the first time.

 

[jme3]

Oh okay, that makes sense.
Is he the guy in the middle with the hat on?
It looks like his cuffs are hemmed and not the frayed like the others.

Yeah, that's him. What you're seeing in that photo, though, is the undershirt that's worn under the outer robe. But even on his outer robe, the sleeves are indeed hemmed.

So I ran back up to Joanns and grabbed another couple boxes of Dark Brown, a Scarlet and a bottle of Wine, I tried looking for a bottle of Jack Daniels, but they were all sold out. :lol

I've never been to a Joann's but if they've branched out into selling spirits, then they're definitely onto a new business model! :lol

I went to a Laundromat, but I couldn't control the length of agitation, so I opted to do it by hand again, although I modified alot of what I did the first time.

Don't laundromats use the front-loading washers also? Even so, I didn't know they'd allow one to dye fabrics there. Live and learn! :unsure

 

[n0x23]

Yeah, that's him. What you're seeing in that photo, though, is the undershirt that's worn under the outer robe. But even on his outer robe, the sleeves are indeed hemmed.

Undershirt, in addition to the robes, gloves and beanies?!
Cripes, Lucas was sadist back then!

Don't laundromats use the front-loading washers also? Even so, I didn't know they'd allow one to dye fabrics there. Live and learn! :unsure

Yea, they have both styles and usually, at least the ones out here aren't supervised, just cameras, but i was going to bring some bleach and run an empty cycle to clean it out for the next guy.

So after dyeing it and rinsing it a second time, the majority of the light-spots were gone, well they weren't noticeable like before just slightly lighter than the rest of the material.

I'm going to dye it one more time ( I didn't drain the dyebath this time), just to see if I can get it a little bit darker overall.

I'll post pictures when it's done...if you want?

 

[jme3]

Undershirt, in addition to the robes, gloves and beanies?!
Cripes, Lucas was sadist back then!

It's really cold out in that desert you know so, they had to bundle up...:lol

I'll post pictures when it's done...if you want?

Please do!

 

[n0x23]

I can not comprehend how Anthony Daniels did it, regardless of the climate of the location, but especially in the Desert?! Sheesh! :confused

I finished dying it, it's rinsing now, I'll post the pics here shortly.

Also, I was trying to think what actually formed my mental image of the color of the Jawas and i don't think it was the movie.....

I think it was these guys.... :lol

 

[jme3]

I can not comprehend how Anthony Daniels did it, regardless of the climate of the location, but especially in the Desert?! Sheesh! :confused

Any of them on location in Tunisia, really; the Tusken Raiders, the Jawas, C-3PO, the Sandtroopers... They all must've baked, atleast during the day. Nights I hear can be pretty cold in any desert but I don't think they had the luxury of nighttime filming.

Also, I was trying to think what actually formed my mental image of the color of the Jawas and i don't think it was the movie.....

I think it was these guys.... :lol

I'm only getting a red X...

 

[n0x23]

Red X ?
Hmmm...I seem to run into that alot, i can see the posted image but others can't.
I'll try a different one....

 

[jme3]

I see it now.

I'd stick to the screen versions though if I were you! Those aren't screen-accurate colors! lol

Red X ?
Hmmm...I seem to run into that alot, i can see the posted image but others can't.
I'll try a different one....