Does a bad sequel or prequel harm the original?

Do lousy remakes, which have no continuity with the original film, ruin your enjoyment of a movie in the same way a lousy sequel would?

A lot of people get really upset over bad remakes.

I get annoyed by them, yeah, definitely. But not because they affect the original. Remakes are actually totally separate for me, which I recognize really makes no logical sense. It's just another movie right? Well, no. For me, remakes or reboots are separate.

What pisses me off about remakes/reboots is the lack of originality and the fact that a bunch of money, time, and effort was spent making a knockoff of something that was already just fine on its own, when it could have been spent telling something new. Plus, many times, remakes/reboots suck, which of course only proves that the film was a "remake" purely to capitalize on the strength of the brand name of the original, rather than because the story was worth a damn.

The way I see it, if you are remaking a film, you have to ask yourself why. What's the point? What are you going to bring to the party that's better/wasn't done the last time? If your film/story is good enough to stand on its own, why aren't you making your own movie? If it ISN'T good enough to stand on its own, ought that not be enough reason NOT to make the film?

Obviously people go ahead and make them anyway, because viewers are undiscriminating and don't really care, but that's why I get pissed about remakes -- not because they hurt the original. Because they don't hold a candle to it and are a waste.
 
Do lousy remakes, which have no continuity with the original film, ruin your enjoyment of a movie in the same way a lousy sequel would?

A lot of people get really upset over bad remakes.

Oddly, no, not at all. I can be disgusted with them, deride them, mock them, but remakes I can keep emotionally segregated from the originals easily.
 
I think on first viewing a sequel/prequel can harm the original. But if you let time pass and forget the sequel/prequel everything will be as it should be. So, I can't remember anything about Alien 3 or 4 at this point. I've almost forgotten about the Star Wars prequels. I just own Attack of the Clones and although I like a few scenes part of me wants to take a bat to it. Terminator 3 & 4 are completely forgotten as well. The same goes for The Thing 2011.
 
But nothing has ever sucked as badly as Highlander II.

I agree...

But I would also say that Starship Troopers II gave Highlander II a run for its money for worst sequel ever.


Touching on Alien3- the special "workprint" edition is an improvement over the theatrical release (it even restores an entire subplot deleted from the original release):

Halfway through the film they actually manage to capture the Alien in a giant vault. However Golic truly is insane and believes the Alien is his God. He murders the inmate watching the vault door, and releases the Alien planning to convince it to "go with him" and kill Ripley (who Golic believes is responsible for all the unrest in the prison). The alien immediately has Golic for lunch.

And after watching all the documentaries on the horror Fincher and the crew went through to complete the film on time, I have a greater understanding of why it turned out the way it did.

However beyond all this I still like A3 as I feel it was a fitting end to the Ripley character; sacrificing herself in the name of saving humanity from the evil of WY who want to harness the Alien as a weapon.


I would loved to have seen the "Monks and the Wooden Planet" version of A3 filmed. ;)


Kevin
 
I do agree that, over time, bad sequels/prequels fade and you can go back to the originals....but you can never unsee them. As a result, I've taken to being VERY selective in which sequels/prequels I watch for film franchises I enjoy, especially in this age of latter-day entries into once long-dead series.
 
An interesting debate really.

I would say that while I certainly enjoy the original Star Wars Trilogy, Indiana Jones Trilogy, and Terminator Franchise, etc that there is something lost. A bad sequel, prequel, or relentless unnecessary alteration certainly does have a negative effect on my love of a film series. It's difficult to remove myself enough from the changes/ bad choices to not be adversely affected by them. Let's face it, we all love these kinds of movies! If we didn't, forums like this wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't debate endlessly about the films that inspired us. No one can deny that fact, and if you do, you're being willfully ignorant.

But with that being said, that's why I choose to keep my collection of films to be the versions that I grew and fell in love with. With the exception of having high def captures and up to date pictures for prop, costume, and model replications, I try and keep my collection to the kinds of source materials that I had at the peak of my fandom. And by peak, I mean the time where I felt so confident in the abilities of my favorite directors that to me they could do no wrong.

Its been really fun to rekindle that sense of wonder by having source materials or novels, or resources that at the time I wished could have been more in depth, or had better pictures of the props/ costumes I'd always loved. Part of what makes that sense of wonder reignite is the fact that they didn't have all the information I wanted. It brings me back to a time where my imagination could fill in the gaps and in my mind I could come up with any story I felt fit into the context of what I did know.

In some ways it's been really great to explore new films in series that I love. It was exciting to go see the prequels on opening night. Who wouldn't be? This was a BRAND NEW STAR WARS MOVIE! But when they were over, I think a lot of what disappointed me was the fact that it cemented what would considered canon. And there was no undoing that. Now what I'd imagined would never be.

While we should choose to be knowledgeable, in the case of fantasy and imaginative story telling, sometimes less is more. To be able to fill in those gaps that we never knew with our own stories was a huge part of what made us love those films so much. With the advent of DVD and the internet, it has been a boon to those of us who want to create and own a piece of our favorite worlds. Now we can source exact materials for our replicas. But while that has given us great leaps and bounds into having the best props, models, and costumes available, we've also traded our sense of wonder for it.

So to those who still lament the lousy follow-ups, let down prequels, or alterations of their favorite films I suggest to think of a time where it seemed like there was nothing else in the world more important than those movies you loved growing up. Think long and hard about the storybooks you used to collect, or the expanded universe novels you used to read, the action figures you used to display, or the magazines that had great photos of the props and costumes you loved so much. Buy them. You don't need all of them. Just the ones that mattered most to you. The books that you read over and over. Even if they don't hold up to your story telling sensibilities as an adult just revisit them as a way to remember that excitement you felt when you first read them. And watch the movies. The versions you sat and watched growing up, thinking all the while how exciting it was to see Luke Skywalker ignite his lightsaber for the first time. Or watching Indiana Jones outrun that giant boulder in the beginning of Raiders. More often than not, what we miss about those first excited viewings of our favorite film were the memories attached to them.

There are reasons for why we love these things, and thankfully those reasons tend to run far deeper, and hold a place in our hearts that goes far beyond any disappointment from a lackluster sequel. Those reasons are really memories, and we can access them anytime we want.
 
Last edited:
I'm still in favor of sequels/prequels and reboots. Some of the best movies out there are sequels and reboots like the Maltese Falcon and Terminator 2.
I just have to acknowledge they can have more impact on the originals than I previously gave them credit for. Caution! Tread lightly!

Sequels - Yes, by all means, let's move a story forward.

Prequels / Reboots / Remakes - For the most part NO.

I've never seen a prequel where I thought "That added something extra to the story!" Prequels are a waste of time.

Reboots/Remakes - allow at LEAST 50 years before rebooting or remaking a movie. Origin story reboot/remakes are the WORST. How many times must we endure the origin story of Spiderman or Superman? How about 50 years from now? If you're going to do a reboot, at least start in the middle of the story, now "how it all began" - I don't care how it all began, I want to see the crew of the Enterprise in the middle of their journey. I get doing it on a TV series (though it might be more interesting if the crew had known each other for 10 years by the time we start the story), but movies should be about moving stories forward, not backward.


To answer your original question - YES. How many of us saw the first Matrix movie and thought it was awesome.... then saw the sequels and now you can't bear to see the first one because you know the crap that comes later? I KNOW there's a fair number of people who can't stand to look at Darth Vadar in 4,5,6 because they know who/what he is in 1,2,3. Anybody sick of Spiderman/Superman/Hulk?
 
Oddly, no, not at all. I can be disgusted with them, deride them, mock them, but remakes I can keep emotionally segregated from the originals easily.

Agreed.

I've only seen Matrix 2 & 3 once. They are pretty much dead to me as the first one was so superior.

I feel the same about the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise...all down hill after #1.

As bad as they are they don't hurt the greatness of the first one.
 
Agreed.

I've only seen Matrix 2 & 3 once. They are pretty much dead to me as the first one was so superior.

I feel the same about the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise...all down hill after #1.

As bad as they are they don't hurt the greatness of the first one.


Well, except that what I was talking about was reboots/remakes, not sequels. Bad sequels kill some bit of love for the whole of the work for me. We actually are on polar opposites as far as bad sequeles :lol
 
I agree with Solo's contention that the scale of horror depends largely on the degree of like or love for the original. My problem is that I really LOVEd Highlander. The blatant stupidity of Highlander II felt like an insult. It felt like someone had stolen money from me: "Here's some half-baked crap we came up with. You really liked the original, so we think you should give us more of your money to see this steaming pile of crap."

And I fell for it. And eventually I fell into the "Ravenous Buglatter Beast of Traal Defese", ie: if I do not watch the sequels, they will not know I exist therefore I do not have to acknowledge that they do exist nor that they ever existed.

For some reason, the Matrix movies are different for me. I don't despise the sequels. They don't diminish the greatness of the original and if I surf across an interesting portion I may sample a few minutes of the eyecandy. It's almost as if you ran across a singer who had one awesome great life-changing song and then the rest of their recording career was nothing but B-sides. Perfectly servicable music, just nothing you'd pay to download from ITunes.

But Highlander II... it's like that singer crashed your party uninvited, urinated into the punchbowl, vomited on the bed where your guests had stored their jackets, then forced their way on stage where your buddy's band is performing quite admirably for the enjoyment of your guests. Then he blows out their amplifiers with one ghastly ear splitting howl that shatters every window on your house. But he didn't crash your party, YOU invited him because you loved that first song so much. You feel like a fool and now you don't even enjoy hearing what WAS your favorite song.

That is Highlander II.
 
I agree with Solo's contention that the scale of horror depends largely on the degree of like or love for the original. My problem is that I really LOVEd Highlander. The blatant stupidity of Highlander II felt like an insult. It felt like someone had stolen money from me: "Here's some half-baked crap we came up with. You really liked the original, so we think you should give us more of your money to see this steaming pile of crap."

And I fell for it. And eventually I fell into the "Ravenous Buglatter Beast of Traal Defese", ie: if I do not watch the sequels, they will not know I exist therefore I do not have to acknowledge that they do exist nor that they ever existed.

For some reason, the Matrix movies are different for me. I don't despise the sequels. They don't diminish the greatness of the original and if I surf across an interesting portion I may sample a few minutes of the eyecandy. It's almost as if you ran across a singer who had one awesome great life-changing song and then the rest of their recording career was nothing but B-sides. Perfectly servicable music, just nothing you'd pay to download from ITunes.

But Highlander II... it's like that singer crashed your party uninvited, urinated into the punchbowl, vomited on the bed where your guests had stored their jackets, then forced their way on stage where your buddy's band is performing quite admirably for the enjoyment of your guests. Then he blows out their amplifiers with one ghastly ear splitting howl that shatters every window on your house. But he didn't crash your party, YOU invited him because you loved that first song so much. You feel like a fool and now you don't even enjoy hearing what WAS your favorite song.

That is Highlander II.


:lol:lol:lol

Could you be more descriptive?

Seriously, a great and funny post! :thumbsup
 
Outlander, your experience with Highlander is similar to my experience with other films, so I think there must be a factor involved here where the degree you like/love the original is the degree to which you dislike/hate the new one.

I LIKED Highlander but didn't LOVE it so much that the sequels ruin it for me. Plus, it stands pretty well on its own. If they'd never made a sequel, nobody would've thought "But what happened next?!"

Other films I've loved, though...ugh. Just...ruined for me by lousy subsequent entries. Sometimes they can come back around for me, but not all that often.
 
Took me a bit of thinking through.

For me, the crappy follow up does spoil the original when I'm watching the crappy film. When I'm watching the original however, it's not spoiled by the knowledge of the existence of the pre/sequel. Does that make sense?
 
The Matrix is an anomaly. Pun fully intended.

The original was great because the Wachowski Brothers stole the idea from a short story, the author of which, sued them and won. The sequels were garbage because they wrote them themselves and they were just bad movies. I really don't care for them as directors. V for Vendetta wasn't too bad and I still love the first Matrix, though I have a hard time watching it sometimes because it was spoofed so many times that the effects look really dated to me. But it's still entertaining, and I can enjoy it.
 
My problem is that I really LOVEd Highlander. The blatant stupidity of Highlander II felt like an insult. It felt like someone had stolen money from me: "Here's some half-baked crap we came up with. You really liked the original, so we think you should give us more of your money to see this steaming pile of crap."

And I fell for it. And eventually I fell into the "Ravenous Buglatter Beast of Traal Defese", ie: if I do not watch the sequels, they will not know I exist therefore I do not have to acknowledge that they do exist nor that they ever existed.

But Highlander II... it's like that singer crashed your party uninvited, urinated into the punchbowl, vomited on the bed where your guests had stored their jackets, then forced their way on stage where your buddy's band is performing quite admirably for the enjoyment of your guests. Then he blows out their amplifiers with one ghastly ear splitting howl that shatters every window on your house. But he didn't crash your party, YOU invited him because you loved that first song so much. You feel like a fool and now you don't even enjoy hearing what WAS your favorite song.

That is Highlander II.

I couldn't agree more. I was first in line to see Highlander II and I hated it so much I can't really enjoy Highlander anymore. Even after the Director's Cut where they try and fix the story it still sucks.

Sean
 
After seeing a really good prequel or sequel, I've heard some say it INCREASED their enjoyment of the original, so I don't see why the opposite isn't possible.
 
This thread is more than 11 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top