Could Disney finally give us the remastered, unedited Star Wars we want?
- Thread starter rodneyfaile
- Start date
I am sure he does still feel that way and can't imagine why anyone would want to preserve what he considered an incomplete work of his. I am sure he feels that way regarding the SE release as being the definitive and final work and worthy of such preservation.
Mola Rob
Sr Member
If that is the way he feels perhaps he should take into consideration the fact that the original versions of the OT were available 14 to 20 years prior to his "improvements" and that those are the versions people cherished. At no point during the 20 years between the original release of Star Wars and the release of the Special Editions did I hear anyone saying "You know I bet George could improve these by adding pointless scenes and unneeded special effects!".
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cayman shen
Master Member
He probably does, and I understand why you could make that argument. The only thing that gives lie to it is that he didn't just change them once, but three times now (97, DVD, BR). He even UNDID some changes (Luke's scream when he falls in ESB for instance) that he made in 97...he also made decisions such as adding Vader's NOOOOOOOOO! in ROTJ that were obvioulsy not part of any grand "original intention" because it was clearly intended to mirror ROTS, which wasn't made when he first released the SE.
But again, nobody's arguing for eliminating the SE or that GL doesn't have rights over his own creation. I just can't fathom why he wouldn't want to preserve BOTH. Hell, I'm in favor of preserving the 97 SE with the original Jabba CG and no Naboo in ROTJ. I'd like all versions available, much like the Blade Runner box set. I joked about TPM earlier, but it actually does bug me that the theatrical versions of TPM and AOTC are unavailable, and I don't much like those movies. I still don't want them to disappear off the face of the planet!
However, I'm beating a dead horse, so that's the last I'll say. I've been having variations on this argument for faaaaar too many years. Hopefully Disney comes through. That's all.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
GL can do what ever he wants with his stuff, so far as I know there has been no financial damage to anybody because of "fan edits". Am I "wrong" for choosing to watch something much closer to what I fell in love with in 1977 instead of the DVD set I paid GL for? I suppose on a moral ground that is a matter of opinion, legally bootlegs of movies (even restored footage) are a no-no, but so is replicating a licensed prop. This thread seems to have devolved into chucking rocks inside a glass house. 
We should be careful about hypocrisy.
We should be careful about hypocrisy.In fairness, I recall the SW fanbase and the general public was pretty thrilled with the idea of trying to improve the SFX of the OT in the late 1990s. There were practically no voices speaking out against it until we got the end result.
Even after the SEs were released it still took a couple years before the tide of the SW fanbase began to turn against the changes. The SFX changes in the SEs were never thought to be perfect but they generally looked pretty cutting-edge in the late 1990s. And GL was still on the pre-Phantom-Menace pedestal in everyone's minds.
People did come out of the theaters in 1997 saying "Jabba still looks kinda fake" or "Han should have shot first". But I have to call B.S. on most people claiming they hated the SEs from the start. I recall the worst responses being more along the lines of "needs a bit more work". You did not hear people saying, "Oh God, put everything back the way it was!!!" That viewpoint didn't become widespread until after ep#1 came out and GL's judgement was being more openly questioned.
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Yes, GL and Disney can do whatever they want with their stuff.
And you know what? We don't have to buy it.
Prequels were pure garbage.
If Disney messes up with Episode VII I'm done with Star Wars.
At least there will always be the OOT.
Long live the OOT.
And you know what? We don't have to buy it.
Prequels were pure garbage.
If Disney messes up with Episode VII I'm done with Star Wars.
At least there will always be the OOT.
Long live the OOT.
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matty matt
Sr Member
Hate against the SE didn't really fire up until we learned they were "replacing" the originals. No one knew that until later.
JD
Master Member
Fox also has a say in some of this...
But, we will. Star Wars sells... and people buy it.
Not at all. That's a terrible blanket statement with no truth or facts to back it up... you didn't like it? Nothing wrong with that at all.
I enjoyed a lot of it, my nephew and his friends enjoyed the heck out of it.
So you're concerned about Return of the Jedi - thirty years after its release?
Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about Episode VII based on all the rumors and speculation I've heard. But, will wait and see... I still have hope and faith.
God save the Queen.
I won't.
It's not a terrible statement but my opinion along with many others including Gary Kurtz. Facts? what facts are you talking about? It is well known that the prequels were not well received or as critically successful as the OOT.
Actually, I am concerned about the entire OOT 30 years after it's release because it keeps being altered. But my original point was that if Disney screws up Episode VII then I am done with Star Wars.
JD
Master Member
I'm sure they'll mourn that loss.
Oh no - it's a terrible statement. Totally pompous. If you have a personal opinion about them, that's one thing... but, to say that they're garbage as blanket statement is ridiculous. Are they as universally heralded as the original films? No, never implied they were... but, they have their place. Most of the kids my nephew's age (10) love them.
Let's also add an actual Kurtz statement about the prequels: “I think they did a pretty good job with them."
I'm sure Disney is really watching your statements about these movies and will be making notes to appease you.
JD
Master Member
I'm not angry at all. It's funny, because I read posts like yours and wonder why folks are so angry that Lucas is changing his movies... and then there's the whining like "If Disney messes up with Episode VI I'm done with Star Wars." It's silly... "I want Star Wars my way or I'll show them and not buy it... Mommy, they took my ball!!"
...and you stated, quite clearly: "Prequels were pure garbage." A blanket statement like that is pompous. You don't like it? Fine. You label other people's likes as garbage with nary a mention of it being an opinion or even a hint a back it up? Sigh.
Solo4114
Master Member
Minor point on the issues of whether the bootlegs are "technically" illegal.
They are. It's not "technical," either. It's pretty much out-and-out infringement of copyright law. It may not be actively policed (since that's up to the rights-holder, and Disney has -- so far -- been lax about this, as was LucasFilm much of the time), but it's still infringement.
There are some dodgy arguments that you can make as to why it isn't infringement, but I've never seen them upheld (or even addressed, actually) in a court of law. I would not expect a court to side with a licensee against a rights-holder in deciding whether a licensee downloading a higher-resolution copy of a work is actually infringement. I think there's a potential argument to be made that it isn't infringement if you already own the underlying work, but there's a counter-argument that even changes such as resolution improvements, color timing, and different audio mixes are separate derivative works, rather than a copy of the version licensed to the licensee. In other words, just 'cause you bought it on VHS doesn't mean you can download the blu-ray rip, even if you're talking about the OOT. You'd have a better argument if, for example, you bought a licensed blu-ray, the disc broke, and you downloaded a copy of the blu-ray again, but that's not what's happening here.
There's another less-discussed aspect of this, too, which is the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It's been a LONG time since I looked at that, but I think that it prohibits much of the decrypting of things like CSS on DVDs (and blu-rays? They may have some other encryption going on). Anyway, as I recall, at least when it first came out, the DMCA did NOT permit a licensee to decrypt a work that they had already paid for because the act of decryption for purposes of making a copy was, itself, illegal. As I said, though, I'm fuzzy on that and the law may have been revised in the last 14 years.
Regardless, if you download a fan edit of any kind, no matter how noble your reasons, legally it's still gonna be treated as infringement.
You wanna watch the OOT, the only legal way to do it is on the 2006 discs, or some previous version (VHS, Betamax, LDs, Super-8, etc.).
--EDIT--
Oh, and one other point of clarification. Lucas is no longer the copyright holder to any of the Star Wars properties. He sold that all to Disney. He's still the author, so things like whether Star Wars falls into the public domain (hint: not in our lifetimes) do hinge on him still, and you MIGHT have some authors rights to assert overseas (not really so much under US Copyright law, though), but Lucas' wishes no longer matter from a legal perspective. The only way they do is if there are clauses in the purchase agreement by Disney that restrict what can be done with Lucas' works (e.g. "You may never ever ever ever and we mean EVER release the Holiday Special in ANY format."). But as far as what matters from a legal perspective, Lucas' personal opinions are now about equal with all of ours. Namely, they don't mean squat -- again, from a legal perspective.
They are. It's not "technical," either. It's pretty much out-and-out infringement of copyright law. It may not be actively policed (since that's up to the rights-holder, and Disney has -- so far -- been lax about this, as was LucasFilm much of the time), but it's still infringement.
There are some dodgy arguments that you can make as to why it isn't infringement, but I've never seen them upheld (or even addressed, actually) in a court of law. I would not expect a court to side with a licensee against a rights-holder in deciding whether a licensee downloading a higher-resolution copy of a work is actually infringement. I think there's a potential argument to be made that it isn't infringement if you already own the underlying work, but there's a counter-argument that even changes such as resolution improvements, color timing, and different audio mixes are separate derivative works, rather than a copy of the version licensed to the licensee. In other words, just 'cause you bought it on VHS doesn't mean you can download the blu-ray rip, even if you're talking about the OOT. You'd have a better argument if, for example, you bought a licensed blu-ray, the disc broke, and you downloaded a copy of the blu-ray again, but that's not what's happening here.
There's another less-discussed aspect of this, too, which is the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It's been a LONG time since I looked at that, but I think that it prohibits much of the decrypting of things like CSS on DVDs (and blu-rays? They may have some other encryption going on). Anyway, as I recall, at least when it first came out, the DMCA did NOT permit a licensee to decrypt a work that they had already paid for because the act of decryption for purposes of making a copy was, itself, illegal. As I said, though, I'm fuzzy on that and the law may have been revised in the last 14 years.
Regardless, if you download a fan edit of any kind, no matter how noble your reasons, legally it's still gonna be treated as infringement.
You wanna watch the OOT, the only legal way to do it is on the 2006 discs, or some previous version (VHS, Betamax, LDs, Super-8, etc.).
--EDIT--
Oh, and one other point of clarification. Lucas is no longer the copyright holder to any of the Star Wars properties. He sold that all to Disney. He's still the author, so things like whether Star Wars falls into the public domain (hint: not in our lifetimes) do hinge on him still, and you MIGHT have some authors rights to assert overseas (not really so much under US Copyright law, though), but Lucas' wishes no longer matter from a legal perspective. The only way they do is if there are clauses in the purchase agreement by Disney that restrict what can be done with Lucas' works (e.g. "You may never ever ever ever and we mean EVER release the Holiday Special in ANY format."). But as far as what matters from a legal perspective, Lucas' personal opinions are now about equal with all of ours. Namely, they don't mean squat -- again, from a legal perspective.
Good post, Solo4114. I had a nice chuckle when people brought Lucas into this discussion. I think there was a clip on TMZ or some such site where he said he is officially done with all things SW. People want to keep thinking he's still behind the scenes pulling the strings. He sold the company. How much more of a statement do you need that he wants nothing more to do with this stuff?
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Gleaming the Cube! Where did THAT come from? lol
cayman shen
Master Member
Haha I have NO idea. It was the second thing that popped into my head for whatever reason!
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