concerning Steve Neisen aka SWProp Builder

[Qui-Gonzalez]

<div class='quotetop'>(Treadwell @ Sep 5 2006, 12:02 AM) [snapback]1313105[/snapback]</div>

Folks, raise your hand if you're a mind reader. As much as our siginificant others might expect us to be, not one of us is. That's the only way any of us would know if he was lying when he made his shipping promises. A lie is saying one thing and intending another. You cannot prove his intent.

What has been shown is a pattern of unreliability. That is the issue here. Using the word lie (much less "sack of @#$%.") is, to understate it, namecalling.

"There are times when civility is inappropriate".

Nope. Not here, anyway. Civility is part of the CoC. Steve can be taken to task for his crimes without folks being uncivil.
[/b]

Yes, Tread, civility is part of the CoC. My point was that "Beware of Crafter XX" are not civil threads and there are times, such as this one and the other, that these uncivil threads are indeed called for. I will stress again that this thread does not make SWPB out to be a bad PERSON, just a bad BUSINESSMAN, simple as that.

 

[gavidoc]

OoOOO... OOOOO.... I get to bring out the definition of lying. YEAH.....

As Webster's so eloquently puts it, part 2 of the definition of Lie (verb tense) is:

<div class='quotetop'></div>

2 : to create a false or misleading impression
[/b]

Hmmmmm.......Said numerous times he would ship the next day thus leading to the impression that Dave would have his PD within a specified amount of time. Never sent and never told BD why thus misleading Dave and thus falsifying Dave's original impression.

Yep. Still a LIAR. If that isn't civil enough, how about.....Steve is unfortunately one who would bend the truth when it would best suit him to thus make him appear to be better then he trully is despite the misfortune it causes to those who choose to do business with him.

Kind of like calling a Janitor a Custodial Engineer. I've always wondered if that is a 2 or 4 year degree.

Dumping 101: Introduction to the proper way to empty a 13 gallon trash can and replace the liner. The student will be required to show the appropriate technique as well as doing it in a timely fashion. The final exam will include an oral, written, and physical example to show that the student has trully mastered the requirements of the course. This is a prerequisite for Dumping 201, Mopping 211, and Liner Thickness 105.

 

[imaginager]

As someone who has been waiting on Steve to deliver a paid kit, I feel I possess both the expertise and the experience to add a comment to this thread.

Steve sucks at email and PM. He can be slow, in my experience. Steve, you are SLOWER than Christmas. :lol I have definitely been frustrated with him and have vented that frustration via PM with another member.

Does he lie? Well, that's a matter of opinion and I'm not here to argue anyone out of theirs. Chances are, they've earned it. That said, it seems to me that Steve wouldn't give me his phone number and answer his phone when I call him - like he has EVERY time I've called him - if he didn't care about the label "liar". While I don't believe Steve is capable of taking anyone's money and running, I do think that a couple years going by can feel that way to some who are or have waited.

Steve is making some changes to his business operations. Steve has some great projects that are coming up. Steve has a reputation he wants to improve. Certainly, this thread has motivated him and caused a good deal of introspection. Has for me.

On balance, there's a lot of positive here. Without cutting Steve any slack, let's nurture the positive. Not by throwing bad money after good, but by monitoring an incremental track record of improvement.

 

[Boba Debt]

I have received the tracking number

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

<div class='quotetop'>(Boba Debt @ Sep 5 2006, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1313511[/snapback]</div>

I have received the tracking number
[/b]

Emailed you..

Lynn

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(gavidoc @ Sep 5 2006, 10:57 AM) [snapback]1313295[/snapback]</div>

OoOOO... OOOOO.... I get to bring out the definition of lying. YEAH.....

As Webster's so eloquently puts it, part 2 of the definition of Lie (verb tense) is:

<div class='quotetop'>

2 : to create a false or misleading impression
[/b]

Hmmmmm.......Said numerous times he would ship the next day thus leading to the impression that Dave would have his PD within a specified amount of time. Never sent and never told BD why thus misleading Dave and thus falsifying Dave's original impression.
[/b][/quote]


As Treadwell said, there's no way of telling if it was his intent to create a false or misleading impression.

If he can't get around to shipping it for whatever reason, to say so while intentionally meaning not to ship it...that is lying, but it cannot be proven. If there is no followup communication, then yes that's not good business practice, but not grounds to assume he's a lier.

Anyway, when he did get around to shipping my item, he sent it Fed Ex... to my surprise (he had agreed to pay shipping and could have sent it USPS). Also, after having difficulty getting any reply via email or PM, he gave me his phone number and responded to my call right away.

So yes I had to wait and pester, but it worked out. Delays can happen and heavens knows I've been through much longer waits than one month....that's just my own POV. I've dealt with someone before for which I had to wait 1.5 years and there were definitely lies coming through from that deal. But in my own case here I wouldn't go that far to say he was lying or misleading me....he just was not regular with communication.

So at least to me there's a difference between not being able to make a commitment to something, and lying.

 

[gavidoc]

I'm not saying he won't deliver (glad you're getting your part Dave) but he lied. He can't say he didn't when he did. Is he a habitual liar? Probably not. Does he do it on purpose? Probably not. I'm just saying he lied in those instances and he can't try and say he didn't.

Just because you lie about something doesn't mean you do it all the time but when someone tells you that you lied, you can't get all defensive when you did.

That'd be like saying BD is a hardheaded SOB sometimes and him getting defensive about it. He isn't all the time, just some of the time.

 

[Treadwell]

(sigh), that still isn't what lie means but we've become another grammar thread.

Let's just drop the semantics debate (of which I admit my part) and just agree not to use the word anymore whether we think it applies or not, and reserve this thread for Steve and David to post updates. Also for other directly affected parties to share info.

Also, David, I know you're not going to like this, but I'm editing the title of the thread. My apologies and my thanks for your indulgence.

 

[Jeeves]

I'd like to add my experience to the pile here - I've bought 4 kits from Steve...probably spent well over $1,000, and he's always delivered.

Did it take a while? Yes.
Did it take a little work to email him regularly? Yes.
Did I get everything I ordered? Yes.

I'm not defending his delivery patterns, but the bottom line is that he has always delivered. Take it for what it's worth.

-Raj

 

[Kuhn Global]

<div class='quotetop'>(Treadwell @ Sep 5 2006, 08:06 PM) [snapback]1313786[/snapback]</div>

Also for other directly affected parties to share info.

[/b]

As a possible "future" customer of Steve's,.. and reading all yet stated fact, points, apologies and perceptions, I choose to chime in as a collector...

When looking into doing business with someone, I look for specifics that make the difference in what I believe my dealings with them will be. Aside from honesty and honor they would be...

1. A 'solid' and 'positive' track record for handling their own business at hand.

2. The same applies to for their handling of the people they do business with.

3. The ability to produce positive results reliably.

4. Premium product.

5. Positive attitude.

Everyone has 'life' problems and duties to perform. Proper business is one of them. If proper business isn't adhered to, that business will probably not survive. As stated earlier, if money has been taken for a product or service, the person giving the money then becomes the customer. The customer makes or breaks the business. And of any knowledge I can give to those who do not believe taking money for product or service isn't a business,... I would say hobby or not, .. that their days will most likely be numbered. We live in a world of easy replacement and stiff competition,.. especially with the world-wide internet. Those that can't hack it simply will not survive.

That said,.. I believe without a 'customer acceptable' time table of delivery, the days of taking money for product or service far in advance may be coming to an end.

Doing a trade is somewhat different, but not entirely.

For my business practice, like most, I have made poor judgements at times in acceptance of the excuse only to find myself dangling "on the hook" of a non-productive group or individual. Today, I do my best to avoid doing business with such people and it has saved me much grief. I still make occasional mistakes, however, as has been seen in my learning process of SS modeling.

Trust is earned,.. not simply given, in my opinion. I know there will be many that disagree with my practice and we may delite together in the knowledge that they will never have to deal with me in business.

Specific action, product and how things are handled are of prime importance.

I see no reason to voice any other of my opinions in this thread,.. except... that as a possible 'future paying customer' of Steve and many others,.. I am paying very close attention.

I hope I didn't overstep my boundaries Jay.

 

[Boba Debt]

I didn't know Steve sent this to my PO Box so I didn't go to the PO yesterday but is was delivered yesterday and I picked it up today.

 

[juno]

I'm so glad to hear that. Steve, keep up the good work.

 

[Boba Debt]

I have unpacked the PD and it made it fine

A few of the brass to resin joints broke loose but I was able to re-glue them.

Despite that fact that Steve really upset me with his lack of communication I still want to thank him for building it.

He did a wonderful job.

I really wish you could get the business end of his business under control.

I would love to get an MR Y-wing repainted by him but I just can't take the long wait and poor communication again.

 

[patsmear]

Good to hear. I am glad you got it in the end.

So bust out the pics.


Pat

 

[Darth Kukiman]

BD, I'm really glad to hear that you are happy with the PD...

PICTURES....

Steve.. I yet have to find a dissatisfied customer of yours on your models.. I mean quality wise

U R THE MAN.. Good job yet ONCE AGAIN...... :thumbsup

 

[PHArchivist]

FWIW, Steve forwarded to me a small but appreciated gift. It was not necessary for him to do it; it was pure goodwill, which I will try to return at some point, if I may. And it arrived impeccably fast.

 

[swpropmaker]

 

[patsmear]

Very nice but I still understand BD's distaste.I had the same thing happen to me with Vaderpainter. Not a fun thing to go through.

Pat

 

[DARKSIDE72]

A lot of good things has come from this thread. Please see my post in the Studio Scale Modeling thread.