Comparison Original Vs SDS V Original

[Star Wars Helmets]

I didnÂ’t know where to put this post so ive started a new thread. ItÂ’s in reaction to some, quite frankly, silly posts that have almost suggested that the SDS helmet is some kind of inaccurate hunk of plastic. So I think we just need some perspective.

Therefore in black and white (so we overlook colour), IÂ’m showing for the first time a group of photos I took a year ago of an SDS helmet between two original sandtrooper helmets. All helmets were in frame at the same time - no overlays or manipulation was used.

People can read what they want from these pics but from what I see:

1) All TK helmets look slightly different, assembly is key.
2) The SDS look very similar from many angles
3) The SDS face is extremely accurate, especially areas like the teeth which on many helmets lack definition
4) The back is different in places
5) The face angle of the SDS helmets is almost always not steep enough.

Seeing the SDS “surrounded” in this way is quite interesting (and ironic :lol). Its funny how when it clearly looks inaccurate to the helmet on one side, it doesn’t on the other.

Notes:
These pics were taken with all 3 helmets on an approximate line on a table, but they were rotated by hand so distace to camera will vary slightly shot to shot. Please dont go drawing lines trying to match parts up or overlaying helmets on each other as they will not match up 100% correctly as they are 3D objects. However the fact that they are all photod in frame at the same time at least gets us round any lighting or size barriers. ItÂ’s a shame that no other replica helmet has been photographed In this way (or maybe it has but the owners have been unwilling to share their findings ).

These photos (and elements within them) have not been altered in any way except desaturating, watermark and (each photo) sized to the same dimensions. And please, no reproduction outside this forum without my consent.

Finally, can I ask that we keep personalities out of this discussion, and people come to it free of prejudice. Come with an open mind.

Cheers

Jez

 

[Boba Debt]

These photo's make me want one even more then before.

I would love to see and TE or Gino helmet in the middle like that, it would be interesting to see how close they came.

I have copied the pictures to my HD, for my own personal use, if you're not ok with that I will delete them.

Thanks

<div class='quotetop'>(Boba Debt @ Oct 1 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]1329782[/snapback]</div>

These photo's make me want one even more then before.

I would love to see other makers helmets in the middle like that, it would be interesting to see how close they came.

I have copied the pictures to my HD, for my own personal use, if you're not ok with that I will delete them.

Thanks
[/b]

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Thanks BD

I'm happy people save the pics, and can use them to argue or whatever on this forum (or Sandtrooper/MEPD/Rebelscum/RPB/501st).

Theyre not about "wow isnt the SDS cool" (which is why ive never posted them before) but to just try and put some perspective into the discussions

Cheers

Jez

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Very nice comparisons. It's not often to see later produced helmets lined up with actual screen used pieces. :thumbsup

 

[RKW]

Anyone who is completely unbiased and has compared the SDS with any number of AA production used helmets and post production helmets will concede that the current ears and back section are scratch built. It looks like the back has been stiched to an original development cap. So we are only left with the faceplate where you could argue till your blue in the face that it has been produced from the same original molds used in production. Albeit these molds would have to have been altered to account for the new neck flare that is now present and can be seen in all of AA's development work.

So the SDS helmet merely represents an evolution in the Stormtrooper or AA's work which is the only reason I can still feel happy to own it.

 

[StarWars Collector]

For the most part it comes down to the way the helmet is assembled IMO. The SDS could look (much) better as Sithlord showed us.

BTW: Great comparison Jez. :thumbsup

 

[stonky]

I'd be much happier with my SDS if only the back were shortened so that the faceplate could be mounted at an appropriate angle.

 

[Keith]

There is no way that cap/back came off the orignal molds. If it did it would be the same shape.

If the molds were damaged and repaired, the cap/back would look close to the orignal. But its not close to the original. The proof is right there in front of you.
The entire shape of the rear tube is wrong, the shape of the rear traps is wrong, the right front trap is tiny, but the left is big and the line that runs around the back of the cap should be a small step, but its a scored in line on the SDS.

As for the ears, well i don't think anyone could argue that they look totally wrong.

What sort of a gap would you have and why, if you were to trim the huge amount of plastic away from the ears to make them look more like the originals?

The face, thats the best part about the SDS helmet, but the way the bottom of it hangs out so much completely ruins it for me. It looks like how a stormtrooper might look 30 years on though with a big double chin :lol

Now we keep being told that these differences could be because the molds were damaged. But AA said the molds were in perfect condition and only minor clean up was needed. He only told us the molds were damaged AFTER people started complaining about the differences. Now you can dress it up anyway you want, but we were lied to.

Its obvious that the dome and the face from the prototype was used to produce the SDS helmet. The back of the helmet and the ears have been sculpted from scratch.

I don't have the other pictures of the prototype which show the funny angle of the rear traps (which also match the SDS), but using the dome from the prototype also explains why the line that runs around the back of the SDS looks like its scored into the plastic, rather than being a step outwards:

So what do we have on the SDS....A face and dome which match the prototype 100% and a back and ears which look to be totally scratch built.
With all this clear evidence + the way AA said the molds were in perfect condition, but then changed his statement to the molds were damaged (after people started asking questions) i can't see how anyone could think the SDS came from the original molds and not the prototype parts.

I am not biased in any way and i don't hate AA. I would have kept my SDS helmet if i thought it was off the orignal molds.

Keith.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Great shots Jez, thanks for posting them.

Im no trooper expert so I don't have much of an opinion as to what is accurate and not accurate when it comes to troopers but I have always been a fan of the SDS lid regardless of its origins.

 

[TK765]

Interesting how none of the helmets position in each comparison is the same and that you didn't take any direct side or rear views. :rolleyes

Aside from all the typical discrepencies its interesting to note that the center tooth on the SDS helmet is obviously much skinnier than the film used helmets.

I like this photo the best as it shows the horribly recreated and resculted back of the helmet.

[attachmentid=10349]

I especially like this comparison of the completely resculted ear that had to be done to match up to the resculpted back. Left is AA, center is screen used recast and right is screen used.

[attachmentid=10350]

 

[Art Andrews]

Jez,

I think the problem here is the age old problem we see in so many prop myths. The myth starts with a grain or perhaps even a substantial amount of proof, but then as time goes by and that truth is repeated and handed down from person to person, it grows and becomes more and more exaggerated until what is said/believed barely represents reality. There is no doubt that the SDS has issues when compared to an original. Even you have acknowledged this. However, because of the people who so admimently love troopers have pointed these issues out again and again, the general belief has become skewed regarding these helmets and the so many now believe these helmets are worthless and completely inaccurate. I can understand people being frustrated if they are led to believe these helmets are exactly like the originals. Clearly, they are not. However, they are a great replica and very accurate in certain areas. Sad to see yet another fact get so blown out of proportion that people are now calling the AA helmets "trash."

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(Brak's Buddy @ Oct 1 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]1329957[/snapback]</div>

Jez,

I think the problem here is the age old problem we see in so many prop myths. The myth starts with a grain or perhaps even a substantial amount of proof, but then as time goes by and that truth is repeated and handed down from person to person, it grows and becomes more and more exaggerated until what is said/believed barely represents reality. There is no doubt that the SDS has issues when compared to an original. Even you have acknowledged this. However, because of the people who so admimently love troopers have pointed these issues out again and again, the general belief has become skewed regarding these helmets and the so many now believe these helmets are worthless and completely inaccurate. I can understand people being frustrated if they are led to believe these helmets are exactly like the originals. Clearly, they are not. However, they are a great replica and very accurate in certain areas. Sad to see yet another fact get so blown out of proportion that people are now calling the AA helmets "trash."
[/b]

Thanks for trying to provide a little perspective Art.

I have to say that TK765's comments are totally unnecessary and quite typical of those who just try and discredit everything AA has done.....

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Interesting how none of the helmets position in each comparison is the same and that you didn't take any direct side or rear views. :rolleyes [/b]

So do you think this is another conspiracy, that for some dark reason I've hidden certain shots?

I took a whole load of photos when at Christies of the four helmets in the auction. However I was more interested in the originals than thinking "oh wait I must make sure I get the SDS and Move Along at this angle".

Honestly 765, you really need to lighten up. either that or with respect get away from the keyboard and do some hands on research rather than trying to suggest there's a conspiracy as to why I didnt take the picture you wanted to see :rolleyes)

Cheers

Jez

 

[-... . .- --..]

<div class='quotetop'>(Brak's Buddy @ Oct 1 2006, 01:54 PM) [snapback]1329957[/snapback]</div>

I can understand people being frustrated if they are led to believe these helmets are exactly like the originals. Clearly, they are not. However, they are a great replica and very accurate in certain areas. Sad to see yet another fact get so blown out of proportion that people are now calling the AA helmets "trash."
[/b]

I must admit this bothers me, too. Now we've got folks saying things like:

<div class='quotetop'></div>

AA's stuff IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ACCURATE...[/b]

and

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Ah, but his current work CLEARLY is not what he says it is. Different almost 60%. [/b]

Not picking on any one in particular, these are just two comments that struck me as particularly odd. How can anyone look at the thirteen different comparison images Jez took of an SDS helmet sitting between two original screen-used helmets and make either of these claims with a straight face. I mean, I'm all for argumentative hyperbole but this is over the top.

"...IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ACCURATE" is just patently false on its face. No one's saying they're 100% accurate, there are definitely differences. But how do you get from there to "...NO WAY...?" Do these helmets have to be absolutely 100% accurate or absolutely 100% inaccurate? Why?

And as far as "Different almost 60%," what's that supposed to mean? Has someone actually calculated that these helmets are 58.72% inaccurate? By what measurement, perchance?

Seriously silly...

 

[DarkLordSalvo]

Apparently, your eyes decieve you... :lol

 

[OldKen]

"...IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ACCURATE" is just patently false on its face. No one's saying they're 100% accurate, there are definitely differences. But how do you get from there to "...NO WAY...?" Do these helmets have to be absolutely 100% accurate or absolutely 100% inaccurate? Why?

umm i think that was me... heres the point, and you have to know rocket science to understand but ill try and get it across to you.

IF HE HAD ALL THE ORIGINAL MOLDS IT WOULD BE 100% ACCURATE.

it isnt.

no its not a worthless hunk of plastic.

and im sure if you wanted to get REALLY technical... its probably about 90%

you know what that says to me...

AA lied about SOMETHING... PERIOD...

for anyone to look at say one of Ginos helmets and honestly say that its not at least a LITTLE better and closer to the 100% accurate mark than an AA...

you really shouldnt even be discussing TK stuff...

jez, i know you know that Ginos stuff is closer to being 100% I KNOW IT...

youve looked at and held too many real ones...

first off... they arent thin like the originals, the ears and back are deffinatly not right beyond a shadow of a doubt, and there ARE discrepancies even with the face...

Ginos was made from the real deal.

but these were supposed to be a step before that... THE ORIGINAL MOLDS... :unsure

that is the ONLY point ive ever tried to make, and sometimes in my confused baffled state at what is wrong with some peoples eyes i say stupid things like my above quote.

so in short... no they arent "IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ACCURATE"

in some ways shapes and form... they are close...

too bad this isnt horshoes OR handgrenades... cause that would be good enough. :unsure

 

[Boba Debt]

<div class='quotetop'>(oldken @ Oct 1 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1330077[/snapback]</div>

IF HE HAD ALL THE ORIGINAL MOLDS IT WOULD BE 100% ACCURATE.[/b]

This statement demonstrates that you have virtually zero understanding of the vacuume forming process.

There are so many factors that come in to play when you do a run of items like this that it would be impossible for every helmet to be identical.

I challenge anyone to post pictures of 2 screen used helmets that were identical.

 

[Boba Debt]

<div class='quotetop'>(oldken @ Oct 1 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1330077[/snapback]</div>

for anyone to look at say one of Ginos helmets and honestly say that its not at least a LITTLE better and closer to the 100% accurate mark than an AA...[/b]

Ok I have never looked at a Gino and I am in no way a helmet expert but I'll take a quick shot at what I noticed about the helmet in less the 3 minutes

Based on this picture it's too small (btw, if you increase the size of the helmet to make it the size of the real helmet a lot of details get really wonky)

The nose radius above the teeth is not large enough

The pockets below the eyes are too small

The material under the brim is too short

The space between the eyes is too narrow

The width of the teeth and the spacing between them is way off

The mic tips point more forward

The part between the mic tips (the voicemitter?) is way off

The distance between the neck tube and the pockets under the eyes is not wide enough

Eye ridge is not pronounce as much

 

[GINO]

You're joking right?




Have another look.
And then know that these parts came directly out of two different screen used helmets, 1 identified on screen and were unmodified and true to the originals they were taken from in EVERY way. No clean up, no idealizing, just exactly what is was.

 

[Keith]

I think he must be :lol

Keith.

 

[Boba Debt]

I'm not joking

I'm just trying to prove a point, this is a very subjective hobby and accuracy is in the eye of the builder.

Your helmet might be dead on accurate to a certain screen used version at certain angles but in the picture posted above the discrepancies I pointed out are correct.


Now, don't take this personally but I have never even considered buying a TK helmet from any of the replica makers but I will buy an SDS some day.