Brent M
Sr Member
Maybe so, but to me it just looks like they don't really know what they're doing. It's like they have adopted the great Indiana Jones motto of "I'm making this up as I go along".
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Maybe so, but to me it just looks like they don't really know what they're doing. It's like they have adopted the great Indiana Jones motto of "I'm making this up as I go along".
I don't disagree.
Marvel didn't leave them with much creative breathing space.
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KrangPrime
Master Member
I think DC has been trying to distance themselves from the cutesy, fun image they've had for a while now. the general public still thinks of them as Superfriends, most likely.
Although Bruce Tim has done ALOT to get that image out of people's mind over the last few decades, warner Brothers apparently feels the need to go further.
Darker, Grittier, more on edge.
It's shown with their Animated movies (adult themes, Major Violence....death and dismemberment). and now the movie verse is following suit.
So, they let the movie get his far and they are only worried NOW because the general public doesn't seem to care for the direction?
WB, honey.....listen..
You did GREAT with the Batman reboot. I like those more than the Burton Verse (minus the terrible joker take. Nicholson he wasn't).
But you goofed up by trying to apply the same realistic/serious formula with batman, to Superman. Batman is SUPPOSED to be a bit darker, grittier, real world. When you try to apply that to Superman, it just doesn't work. Same for Green Lantern and Flash. They are meant to be a bit more light hearted than batman. for darker, you go to Wonder Woman....John Jones, Batman, maybe Cyborg (considering he got mutilated into a machine).....you can't turn EVERYONE into dark and brooding. It makes the universe INCREDIBLY boring and it looses it's fun..
Also, taking a highly over rated comic book (at least in my opinion) and turning it into a movie, so you can have an easy, really lazy excuse for the two characters to meet and fight on screen to wow audiences with these two mighty foes clashing......the entire first half of the movie is going to be one big slug fest and muscles bulging at each other in stand off shots. add to that, a big bad appearing midway, and the latter half of the movie is probably going to be one big battle too.....adding to that an origin explination for Wonder woman, most likely, shoe horned into it, and I feel like this thing is going to be one big mess as they try and rush into a justice league movie while Supher Hero movies are still printing money.
Meanwhile, the DC comic book verse is rebooting AGAIN and.....well, it's just one big cluster...
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Brent M
Sr Member
Wait, you're saying Ledger was terrible as The Joker? Sorry, but you've lost me for good with a statement like that. :facepalm
KrangPrime
Master Member
yep. I Said it.
My Favorite jokers: Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson. Mark Hamil. To me, they aspire to me what the character should be, and ALWAYS should be.
Anything else is just an imposter.
I'm not even going to bring up Snookie Joker in Suicide Squad...
My Favorite jokers: Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson. Mark Hamil. To me, they aspire to me what the character should be, and ALWAYS should be.
Anything else is just an imposter.
I'm not even going to bring up Snookie Joker in Suicide Squad...
Brent M
Sr Member
Well, obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Ledger was THE definitive characterization of The Joker and nobody is ever going to top him as far as I'm concerned.
Mr Mold Maker
Master Member
To touch on bringing Batman in being "lazy," I completely disagree.
This is the perfect time to introduce Batman into the Universe they're building. Batman has been out of it for a while, and then aliens appear fighting to the death, all the while destroying a town and taking countless lives? What more would you need for Batman to say "Hey, this guy is a threat. Someone needs to take him down." It vaguely follows the comic story line, sure, but don't all comic book movies pull from source materials... Aka the comics? I mean hell, we're getting Captain America: Civil War this year as well..
Him showing up and clashing with Superman is completely in character.. It's something he would do. It doesn't feel lazy to me, it just seems like a natural introduction.
If you can think of a better introduction into this knowing the end goal is the Justice League, then by all means. I'm all ears.
This is the perfect time to introduce Batman into the Universe they're building. Batman has been out of it for a while, and then aliens appear fighting to the death, all the while destroying a town and taking countless lives? What more would you need for Batman to say "Hey, this guy is a threat. Someone needs to take him down." It vaguely follows the comic story line, sure, but don't all comic book movies pull from source materials... Aka the comics? I mean hell, we're getting Captain America: Civil War this year as well..
Him showing up and clashing with Superman is completely in character.. It's something he would do. It doesn't feel lazy to me, it just seems like a natural introduction.
If you can think of a better introduction into this knowing the end goal is the Justice League, then by all means. I'm all ears.
KrangPrime
Master Member
I was thinking about this the other night....
I think a more fun plotline would be something along the following...
The Trickster makes his first appearance. A huge crime that the flash has to figure out how to deal with on city wide scale.
Cue Gotham City, the Joker watching. The Joker getting pissed that someone looks like he's stealing his act. The Joker trying to Trump the Trickster with an even bigger, World Wide scale bit of death and destruction. full on villain gang war.
edit - and if you wantedto get really goofy... Mr.Mxyzlplyx (sp) could come into play too....
You start off with Flash, someone we haven't seen on the big screen. you get Batman involved. the conflict escalates, where batman calls in superman to help. IF you really wanted to throw in wonder woman, you could have her at the end of the movie stepping in to mans world for the first time just to see what all the recent world wide commotion was about....along with aquaman looking to protect his borders...
To me, that seems so much more interesting than a generic slug fest. we already saw how boring that was in man of steel. but, because superman wasn't really a hero in that, they couldn't go this way.
I think a more fun plotline would be something along the following...
The Trickster makes his first appearance. A huge crime that the flash has to figure out how to deal with on city wide scale.
Cue Gotham City, the Joker watching. The Joker getting pissed that someone looks like he's stealing his act. The Joker trying to Trump the Trickster with an even bigger, World Wide scale bit of death and destruction. full on villain gang war.
edit - and if you wantedto get really goofy... Mr.Mxyzlplyx (sp) could come into play too....
You start off with Flash, someone we haven't seen on the big screen. you get Batman involved. the conflict escalates, where batman calls in superman to help. IF you really wanted to throw in wonder woman, you could have her at the end of the movie stepping in to mans world for the first time just to see what all the recent world wide commotion was about....along with aquaman looking to protect his borders...
To me, that seems so much more interesting than a generic slug fest. we already saw how boring that was in man of steel. but, because superman wasn't really a hero in that, they couldn't go this way.
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Only if the Joker is played by Leto and Trickster is played by Jake Busey... and in the middle of the carnage we see Mark Hamill watching the news and muttering "...couple of amateurs..."
KrangPrime
Master Member
of course, they'd have to get someone who could look/think like the traditional joker though.
this wouldn't work with snooky joker, or just plain mad ledger joker. It would have to be a romero/hamil type ;o)
this wouldn't work with snooky joker, or just plain mad ledger joker. It would have to be a romero/hamil type ;o)
Westies14
Master Member
Because executives aren't psychics, or even visionaries. Do you work in film production, or at least follow a lot of the process? Dailies don't show you what a finished film will be. Chris Terrio was hired to BvS at the behest of Ben Affleck and on the strength of Argo. Cavill preparing for a movie he's slated to do doesn't mean they can't pull the plug or delay that project. Writers are hired and fired all the time, as are directors. Nothing you're saying - none of this ancient history, the decisions made before this film was completed - have any bearing on how this film has turned out or whether or not plans will change. Studios count their chickens before they hatch all the time. After the initial screenings of the Game of Thrones pilot, the showrunners and HBO were so appalled that they recast major characters and re-shot 90% of it! You're essentially asking why that would happen if they had once liked the decisions that led to the failed pilot. No one sets out to make garbage.
Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to go finish watching Hellboy 3 so I can start rolling my Narnia marathon!
That's why some of the best films are made by folks who are fans first. e.g. JJ Abrams, Russo Bros, etc.
No calculus of public interest outweighs the sensibility of a single competent fan.
Pikezer1337
Active Member
The movie finished filming in 2014. They have been working on post production for over a year now. The film has been done for quite some time (minus vfx). If WB were worried I would be completely understanding. If fact I wouldn't doubt the report is spot on with that. However, the second part of the report is just speculation on Drew McWeeny's part and it can't be more dead wrong. Just use common sense to put the pieces together. Justice league is coming out in November 2017, not even the failure of BvS will stop that. Let's be honest as well, the movie could be a two hour single shot of you taking a **** and it would still make 800 million dollars. My point is the movie has been finished (not polished) for months. They aired that special and everything. They aren't delaying justice league. You can feel differently which is fine.
KrangPrime
Master Member
Tell that to star trek fans and what JJ did to that universe ;o).
Westies14
Master Member
You're still not saying anything that would mean the movie couldn't move. Movies bigger than this move all the time, for all kinds of reasons. Star Wars just slid seven months, and Steven Spielberg just moved his movie out of its way. Execs make plans that get ahead of themselves all the time, and change them all the time. The execs at WB have very little creative vision - you can't ask them to be sure a movie is great while watching dailies or rough cuts, and even if they do like it (or claim to - the Emperor's New Clothes is a great parable for the way Hollywood makes decisions) that's hardly a barometer for whether or not the public or critics will think it's good. WB just screened the movie - a very close approximation of the finished product - for the first time. No one's projected confidence leading up to now has any bearing on the result, just as the result can't go back and erase the confidence they once had in the project. Drew McWeeny has well-placed, well-vetted sources within the studio, and that's not easily rebutted with PR from 2014.
JJ isn't a ST fan. ;P
drcraig13
Sr Member
Not to get to off track here but I am not a Star Trek fan, and I found JJ's new movies pretty enjoyable. Brining me back to our point of this thread BvsS executives are now making movies for the masses not just hardcore fans. I mean they had him remake a New Hope for crying out loud. Why did they do that. So that way our kids get involved in this franchise and they have a new base to build off of. But hey what do I know? I liked the 1990's version of Captain America.
KrangPrime
Master Member
I don't know enough about the Marvel verse...so maybe someone can answer this..
How close to source are the Marvel movies? and are they even going off source material?
If JJ wasn't a fan of star trek, he shouldn't have taken the job....because he clearly made it more like star wars ;o).
Batman VRS Superman looks to be one big brawler just like the end of man of steel was, with not much more going on than that.
How close to source are the Marvel movies? and are they even going off source material?
If JJ wasn't a fan of star trek, he shouldn't have taken the job....because he clearly made it more like star wars ;o).
Batman VRS Superman looks to be one big brawler just like the end of man of steel was, with not much more going on than that.
drcraig13
Sr Member
Marvel is not even close to source material from the comics. Ultron was originally created by Pym, not Stark. I think Marvel tries to stay true to the characters and then put a compelling story around them. But Winter Soldier and as far as we know Civil War really don't have a lot in common with the original books.
