Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

There's little correlation between closeness to source material and quality of the film. MCU films generally try to stay true to the characters in spirit but change a lot of the material, yet for the most part are considered good films. Watchmen is IMO the closest film adaptation to a comic book out there, and I find it average. As long as the filmmaker 'gets it', he/she can change many aspects when translating a printed format into motion picture confined to a 150-minute span, and deliver a product that both fans and the GA will enjoy.

I've been a big doubter of BvS since the beginning but I'm also hoping for the film to exceed my expectations. I have no clue if McWeeny is just making stuff up or not, but his track record has been fairly solid. Yes he's had hits and misses with scoops like any journalist, but he also doesn't strike me as the sensationalist click-bait type like El Mayimbe or Faraci. McWeeny's also been a fairly reliable Snyder supporter over the years and gave MoS a A+ score, so it's not like he's historically had beef with Snyder or DC. It's really not that uncommon to hear about films failing to impress on their first full cut and deep in post-production; I recall hearing similar stuff with John Carter and Lone Ranger in late stages.

At the end of the day, it's going to take phenomenally bad reviews (i.e. Fantastic Four) to really hurt BvS' box office performance. Even if Snyder gives us a 50% RT score film, I wouldn't be shocked to see this effort still earning over $1B and WB won't have to sweat too much about Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. Is that sort of critics score disappointing? You bet. BvS was supposed to be DC's franchise viagra and that kind of critical reception isn't too encouraging from a creative standpoint for future DCEU films. That's also giving Marvel fanboys an entire oil tanker for upcoming flame wars. If BvS does disappoint creatively, I can totally see WB going back to their film slate and tinkering with it more, buying the JLA movie more time while banking on what worked in BvS, namely Batfleck. I highly HIGHLY doubt WB would trash the entire DCEU effort and go back to the drawing board over a less than mediocre BvS film, but obviously the studio isn't in the business of making mediocre films and changes should be expected.
 
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of course, they'd have to get someone who could look/think like the traditional joker though.

this wouldn't work with snooky joker, or just plain mad ledger joker. It would have to be a romero/hamil type ;o)
Paul reubens

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Not to get to off track here but I am not a Star Trek fan, and I found JJ's new movies pretty enjoyable. Brining me back to our point of this thread BvsS executives are now making movies for the masses not just hardcore fans. I mean they had him remake a New Hope for crying out loud. Why did they do that. So that way our kids get involved in this franchise and they have a new base to build off of. But hey what do I know? I liked the 1990's version of Captain America.

JJTrek is very enjoyable as long as you don't watch it again, our look too closely our think about it at all. I actually loved the first one when I saw it in theater. Then I bought the DVD and watched again.

The acting isn't bad...JJ gets good performances. And it's paced nicely. Also it looks fantastic. All signs of good direction.

It just had more holes than Swiss cheese. How much power does the director have to fix that? Depends on the production. For this one I don't know. I just know that the end result is a fools gold film. It shines when you first look at it, but you're in for a let down if you look again.

Unfortunately, that same thing really can be said of most Trek movies. They've never really been able to make the transition to film. But as fans, we keep hoping and dreaming.






And no, this post had nothing to do with BvS.
 
Well being as I am not really a Trek fan that is why I probably liked it because I am not emotionally involved like some are. But hey what do I know movies that I don't have to think to hard in are really nice for me. I love a good dick and fart joke film.
 
JJTrek is very enjoyable as long as you don't watch it again, our look too closely our think about it at all. I actually loved the first one when I saw it in theater. Then I bought the DVD and watched again.

The acting isn't bad...JJ gets good performances. And it's paced nicely. Also it looks fantastic. All signs of good direction.

It just had more holes than Swiss cheese. How much power does the director have to fix that? Depends on the production. For this one I don't know. I just know that the end result is a fools gold film. It shines when you first look at it, but you're in for a let down if you look again.

Unfortunately, that same thing really can be said of most Trek movies. They've never really been able to make the transition to film. But as fans, we keep hoping and dreaming.






And no, this post had nothing to do with BvS.
not to get really off topic....

JJs biggest mistake was destroying vulcan. i'd be fine with romulus if it was a galactic accident, but having the villain being able to destroy a planet on it's own, there would be planets blowing up all over the place with the klingons. then he goes and changes kronos in the sequel for no good reason.

2 was perfection, 3 was fluff fun, 4 was perfection. 5 is best not talked about ever again (but had good main character moments)....6 was great. 7 best not talked about again. 8 was great. I liked 9. Nemesis would have been better as a lore movie and made far more sense. it can be done as a movie if the idea is big enough for a movie.

Anyway, back to BvS... the more I see of this lex luthor, the more I keep thinking 'He'd be better cast as a joker'. just the mannerisms remind me more of a joker performance than anything we've seen from a lex performance so far. the fact that he's so damn young looking is throwing me off too. I can't beleive a casting director went and said 'yep, this is lex before he looses his hair'.

If they wanted to go camp....they could have had a suave single lex luthor, and then when superman causes his hair to be burned off, all the ladies turn on him for being bald and suddenly supes is his new arch nemesis ;o)..
 
not to get really off topic....

JJs biggest mistake was destroying vulcan. i'd be fine with romulus if it was a galactic accident, but having the villain being able to destroy a planet on it's own, there would be planets blowing up all over the place with the klingons. then he goes and changes kronos in the sequel for no good reason.

2 was perfection, 3 was fluff fun, 4 was perfection. 5 is best not talked about ever again (but had good main character moments)....6 was great. 7 best not talked about again. 8 was great. I liked 9. Nemesis would have been better as a lore movie and made far more sense. it can be done as a movie if the idea is big enough for a movie.

Anyway, back to BvS... the more I see of this lex luthor, the more I keep thinking 'He'd be better cast as a joker'. just the mannerisms remind me more of a joker performance than anything we've seen from a lex performance so far. the fact that he's so damn young looking is throwing me off too. I can't beleive a casting director went and said 'yep, this is lex before he looses his hair'.

If they wanted to go camp....they could have had a suave single lex luthor, and then when superman causes his hair to be burned off, all the ladies turn on him for being bald and suddenly supes is his new arch nemesis ;o)..

Obviously we are all dealing with pre-cursor ideas and such.

But I am almost fully certain that we will NOT have a camp Lex Luthor.

There's a few things that point towards this, but one of the main ones isn't even in the trailers.

Have you seen the prequel comics? If not, please go read them. (I got them on a torrent so I don't have a link) Very short, a nice little piece of exposition - not needed mind you, but in this instance, they have convinced me that our Lex will not be camp. Yes, he will be young, and he will have longer hair. But he is going to be insanely intelligent, ridiculously forward thinking. I believe that Jesse will show us that. We've seen a few cut out bits that don't work very well out of context (a bit like Batman's silhouette occasionally doesn't look right out of a scene, or Superman's slightly wooden voice out of context in the "The bat is dead" scene.)

I think Lex is going to come across well. This isn't supposed to be the business magnate - his raw, insane levels of intelligence will be the intimidating factor. It's been said many times but it's quite obvious that he is distinctly two personalities, he has as much as a public and private persona as Bruce and Clark. There is a stark difference in these prequel comics (even when he gets into the car from just talking to press) where his outward appearance changes and I believe his tone and mannerisms will reflect that. He will easily find ways to pit people against our heroes, and in a smart way too. Hopefully so much as to make us, the viewer, question certain things, as that would be a sign of a brilliant script.

I love the Lex from the comics/animated series just as much as the next guy, and those various lower, "masculine" voices will be remembered fondly always. But I think this will be a great interpretation too.

I'll pop back here and apologise if it isnt, haha. :popcorn


Capture1.PNG
 
Have you seen the prequel comics? If not, please go read them. (I got them on a torrent so I don't have a link)

I posted the link a few pages back, but here it is again to save people from searching.


Chapter ONE (Batman)
http://imgur.com/a/3Lb3d

Chapter TWO (Lois Lane)
http://imgur.com/a/iLPwq

Chapter THREE (Senator Fitch)
http://imgur.com/a/FAMjn

Chapter FOUR (Superman)
http://imgur.com/a/gBmAz

Chapter FIVE (Lex Luthor)
http://imgur.com/a/L6By5



I'd definitely recommend reading all five in order.
 
I posted the link a few pages back, but here it is again to save people from searching.


Chapter ONE (Batman)
http://imgur.com/a/3Lb3d

Chapter TWO (Lois Lane)
http://imgur.com/a/iLPwq

Chapter THREE (Senator Fitch)
http://imgur.com/a/FAMjn

Chapter FOUR (Superman)
http://imgur.com/a/gBmAz

Chapter FIVE (Lex Luthor)
http://imgur.com/a/L6By5



I'd definitely recommend reading all five in order.


Cheers chief. What are your thoughts on them? I missed the first time you posted them my apologies (I even liked the post, stupid memory!) Will go have a gander.
 
Cheers chief. What are your thoughts on them? I missed the first time you posted them my apologies (I even liked the post, stupid memory!) Will go have a gander.

No worries. I just kind of snuck in a link. Easy to miss.


I enjoyed the comics, but I feel like Lex was the only character who actually got a relevant story. The rest felt more like fan service, and it doesn't particularly add to the main story or plot. I definitely agree, it looks like they're setting up a split personality Lex.

I feel like this movie will act as the origin story for him. At some point we can assume he'll lose his hair, and be thrown into a prison. At that point, I feel like the nerdy spastic Lex will be done away with and his colder calculating personality will take over. I am just really hoping Eisenberg can deliver the performance this character needs, and that they don't burn him out on their Zuckerberg approach to the character.

In other words, if Eisenberg is like the comic Lex... hey, maybe it'll be alright.
 
I don't know... multiple personalities is more a joker or two face thing to me.

to me, the pen ultimate lex is always bruce tim. add in that clancy brown voice...and I could watch for hours.
the only thing I missed from that lex was showing that he was also a brilliant scientist, like I think in the early comics.
he clearly had some kind of technical smarts, but it wasn't really dwelled on that much IIRC...
 
I don't know... multiple personalities is more a joker or two face thing to me.

to me, the pen ultimate lex is always bruce tim. add in that clancy brown voice...and I could watch for hours.
the only thing I missed from that lex was showing that he was also a brilliant scientist, like I think in the early comics.
he clearly had some kind of technical smarts, but it wasn't really dwelled on that much IIRC...


I dont really see any Joker link at all.

When I say dual persona I dont really mean split personalities as such. That was the wrong word. Persona definitely. Just facets that he chooses to show. Lex in the comics is shown to be a sociopath with a massive ego, horrendous greed and crazy intelligent.

Also, the joker doesn't tend to have multiple personalities at all, as far as I've seen in various mediums. Psychopath, sociopath, anarchist etc. But generally not split.


I agree on the scientist part. I think this Luthor is going to be a definite mix of scientist/technology. Probably biotech to go against Wayne Industries amongst tons of other businesses. (in a "Field Trip" comic, there's quite a bit about what Wayne Industries/Enterprises? cant remember- and what tech they've been designing)

http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-cereal-comic-field-trip/ - can't find the comic strip for Field Trip, but this article outlines it.

http://imgur.com/a/F2GVu#AUpHuRo - photographs of comic, not great
 
No worries. I just kind of snuck in a link. Easy to miss.


I enjoyed the comics, but I feel like Lex was the only character who actually got a relevant story. The rest felt more like fan service, and it doesn't particularly add to the main story or plot. I definitely agree, it looks like they're setting up a split personality Lex.

I feel like this movie will act as the origin story for him. At some point we can assume he'll lose his hair, and be thrown into a prison. At that point, I feel like the nerdy spastic Lex will be done away with and his colder calculating personality will take over. I am just really hoping Eisenberg can deliver the performance this character needs, and that they don't burn him out on their Zuckerberg approach to the character.

In other words, if Eisenberg is like the comic Lex... hey, maybe it'll be alright.

I think the Senator story and the Superman one was pretty useful too tbh.

It's great to hear some genuine concerns that are absolutely in keeping with the logic of the universe. They arent fully against superman, they arent fully for him. They are erring on the side of caution. Perfect balance.

This one especially was good. Envisioning superman with PTSD etc. Definitely! As a society we attempt to keep safe people on the streets (doesnt work I know) and we tend to try and help (and/or lock up) threats or dangerous individuals with risk. Only in this case you literally can't. There is no way to stop a kryptonian who is having violent mood swings. It makes a lot of sense. And it does give Batmans motivations more oomph.

View attachment 593411



The superman one is great too. An in universe TV show with analysis on this current superman explaining how time and again he proves with tiny, minute decisions that he is here for the good of us. Awesome stuff. Really enjoyed that. I really hope they go into this in the film with a bit more detail. Just a scene or two explaining how difficult it is for the man of steel to do what he does. I hate it when they portray being Superman as easy.

Capture3.PNGCapture4.PNG
 
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I think the Senator story and the Superman one was pretty useful too tbh.

I feel like it didn't tell us anything that wasn't already presumed, personally. As I said, the rest doesn't particularly add to the main story. I'm certain the themes in these that weren't already tapped into during MOS, such as the concerns and debates about superman, will absolutely be touched upon in this current film. I mean, it's a Dr. Pepper sponsored miniseries.. I don't think they're expecting many to read it going into the film.

"Split personality" was indeed the wrong term. If anyone read the comic I feel they'd understand what I was trying to convey, but it was definitely the wrong term. I think you nailed explaining it a bit better than I could.
 
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Let's get a little bit of discussion going. Feel free to jump in!


I was discussing DOJ with a friend today, and an interesting topic came up.

Do you think the movie would be better off named "Dawn Of Justice" dropping the Batman V. Superman angle completely?

I really loved the title of Man Of Steel, in that it was simplistic but recognizable enough to be associated with Superman. He is THE Man Of Steel. Before that, we had the Dark Knight. Just very creative, cool names. Well, creative in the sense Marvel just names every film after the heros.

Do you think it would serve DC better to be a bit more creative in the naming department?
 
...Do you think the movie would be better off named "Dawn Of Justice" dropping the Batman V. Superman angle completely?
In a word, no. "Batman" and "Superman" are recognizable even to people who don't read comic books, and will likely attract more attention and sell more tickets. "Dawn of Justice" is too generic and could be the title of any number of "lone guy gets revenge for being wronged by the bad guys" movie if it isn't accompanied by images of Batman and Superman.
 
I'm pretty sure most people in the general audience are in it for Batman, so dropping the BvS would be really hiding their light under a bushel. Batman will be the Snake Eyes or Wolverine of this cinematic universe, shoehorned in everywhere because, frankly, he's the only DC hero who doesn't blow in most people's eyes.
 
I'm pretty sure most people in the general audience are in it for Batman, so dropping the BvS would be really hiding their light under a bushel. Batman will be the Snake Eyes or Wolverine of this cinematic universe, shoehorned in everywhere because, frankly, he's the only DC hero who doesn't blow in most people's eyes.
I also think that the popularity of wonder woman is about to surprise us.


And she's REALLY going to surprise the suits at warner brothers

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I'll be shocked if that's true, but hey, I've been surprised before!
Well, black widow is pretty popular, but wonder woman will get the opportunity to stand on her own. I think that's going to pay off for warner brothers.

She's gonna be like xena. Or the bride. Or rey.

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