Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

[cboath]

@CharlesHouse - Regarding the spear thing, thats what Im saying, toss it to her, and have her stab him with it, she is a warrior, by the smile on her face, she obviously likes to fight. She was totally holding her own against doomsday. Hell in the comics Doomsday isnt even that much bigger than Superman, he gets him in a full nelson for gods sake. "This weapon is literally the only thing that can hurt me on this planet but Ill do it myself for reasons" Yawn fest. The death of Superman meant nothing, because you didnt even care about him, and as comic fans, even as movie fans, you know he isnt dead. So why bother even doing it?

What was a fantastic surprise that wasnt given away in the trailer? You cant say the Justice League promos were a fantastic surprise. Im seriously asking, not trying to troll at all.

He is in it more, there were scenes filmed in there with BA as Batman. Besides, you cant have Joker in a movie without Batman. There isnt a reason. Joker only exists because of Batman.

Not sure how the justice league files were a surprise. They announced - via PR - that they cast all of those roles for BvS.

I do agree with Charles - no one cares superman is dead. Though, not because you know he's coming back...but because as noted, you just don't care about the character. It's obvious the studio and director don't, so why should we. I think the only time Superman doesn't have a scowl on his face is seeing a naked amy adams in the tub, that should be able to make anyone smile, regardless of situation, so no smile credit there. Maybe the death is so he can be reborn as the boyscout, but frankly, too lttle too late.

 

[teragon]

If Superman comes back to life on earth because he's kryptonion, why didn't Zod?

That's a valid question. I'd assume that in order to come back to life, a really dead kryptonian needs to be exposed to the sun for some time, and Zod was kept tight in lockdown somewhere in a bunker away from the sun. From what Snyder said, Superman isn't going to pop out of his coffin ready to go, it seems somebody is going to have to drag him out and do something about it. The dirt was just a visual clue for us. That's all assumptions on my part though.

But it just comes off as so goofy.


It reads off like 'Hey, lets have batman and superman fight!'

'But, they'd never fight!'

'OK, lets kidnap supermans mom...'

'Awesome... THEN Batman and superman fight. but...wait a minute....at the end....how do we make them friends again?'

.......


...
.....
.....

(This goes on till sunset in slow executive mode)

....

'I know....We'll have superman say his mom martha is in danger!'

'Wait, that's batman's mom too! they can connect thatway!'

'AWESOMESAUCE! god,we are onthe same wave length! Lets make love!'

'OK, meet me in the rec room at 5...'

that's how reading about the scene comes off to me anyway....even if they handled it in a more serious way.....it still sounds goofy on paper..
Like to senior VPs trying to play story editor.

If it doesn't work for you, well I doesn't work for you. But IMO the film makes a good job at making you understand Bruce, we spend a long time with him for half the film before anything goes down, we have glimpse of his psyche, so it works for me. I don't think it's something that can be decided based on descriptions or critics you've read, you need to see the movie to know if it works or not.

I'm curious to know what went wrong for people who've seen the movie, and didn't like that resolution. Why ? Can you explain ?

 

[Snikt]

It's more than that, I don't know why people keep reducing the moment to that. It wasn't hard to understand. It's about Batman realizing that superman had a mom, like him, like every human on earth. It humanised Superman in Bruce's eyes, but further than that, her mom was in danger. Suddenly he has the opportunity to save someone's mother, coincidentally named Martha too. This is why he became Batman, because he couldn't save her mom. That's why they showed us the death of the Waynes again, focusing more on Martha this time. That's why he snapped out of his murderous mood. He didn't went "ok the lets be pal", he just went to save someone's mother while sending Superman deal with the bigger threat. It's only at the funerals that Bruce finally realized that Superman was trying to do good and that he should do right by him from now on.
I'm not pulling anything out of my ass here, this was all in the movie !

Dude. How can you NOT reduce that moment to that? Did Batman think he was hatched before that? I think youre giving Snyder and the writers too much credit man. He had his boot on his throat, and the whole movie he wanted to kill Superman. Thanks to the awesome editing(where is the sarcasm font?) the next scene he says to Ma Kent "Im a friend of your son". I laughed in the theater after that. He became Batman because of the guilt he felt because he couldnt save his parents. What iteration of Batman have you ever seen where Thomas Wayne says "martha" when she dies? He magically thought of that, because it was setting up the JL movie. How could he fester for 18 months, and obsess about killing Superman then flip a switch because he thinks he is dead?

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure how the justice league files were a surprise. They announced - via PR - that they cast all of those roles for BvS.

I do agree with Charles - no one cares superman is dead. Though, not because you know he's coming back...but because as noted, you just don't care about the character. It's obvious the studio and director don't, so why should we. I think the only time Superman doesn't have a scowl on his face is seeing a naked amy adams in the tub, that should be able to make anyone smile, regardless of situation, so no smile credit there. Maybe the death is so he can be reborn as the boyscout, but frankly, too lttle too late.

That wasnt Charles, that was me saying that good sir. Rad name by the way, I havent read Heir to the Empire in ages. *highfive*

 

[teragon]

Well, in this DCEU iteration of the character Thomas does say Martha, just like Stark has a new tweaked origin in the MCU. It's a new mythology. But I hear you. The way it was told was pretty messed up. It's like memento but not on purpose, you have to piece some stuff back together. I don't think I give Terrio too much credit, I think it's all there, but you have to work your mind to get it, and that should absolutely not be the case.

 

[dascoyne]

I can't escape the idea of Warner execs getting the two most well known Batman and Superman stories, a stack of the most evocative concept art (Gotham by Gaslight costume, parademons, Darkseid omega symbol, iconic panels from Miller's Dark Knight Returns etc.) and simply tasked Zack to find a way to put it all in a single movie. "Use dream sequences if you have to. We just need these shots in the trailer to generate as much pre-release speculative buzz as possible with the fans so it opens bigger than any superhero movie that ever was."

It makes me mad that the film feels like eye-candy calculated to bait fans - that they allude to stories and settings without actually treating those stories or settings. What a cop-out. I'm angry they still don't hand more creative control to comic book guys who actually get comics. Based on Zack's ill-informed defense of Batman killing I don't want him making any more superhero films.

BvS is like a Faberge ostrich egg breakfast - opulent and stunning to behold (I seriously want high res stills of 75% of the movie), but also unpalatable, hollow and inflated to obscenity.

 

[CessnaDriver]

Well, maybe resurrection will turn Steelman into Superman. You know, smile, not kill, be the big boy scout he is supposed to be.

 

[Rotwang]

I can't escape the idea of Warner execs getting the two most well known Batman and Superman stories, a stack of iconic comic-inspired concept art (Gotham by Gaslight costume, parademons, Darkseid omega symbol, iconic panels from Miller's Dark Knight Returns etc.) and simply tasked Zack to find a way to put it all in a single movie. "Use dream sequences, if you have to. We just need to get these shots in the trailer so it draws as many fans as possible and opens bigger than any superhero movie that ever was."

It makes me mad that the film feels like eye-candy bait calculated to draw fans - that they allude to stories and settings without actually treating those stories or settings. What a cop-out. I'm angry they still don't hand more creative control to comic book guys who actually get comics. Based on Zack's ill-informed defense of Batman killing I don't want him making any more superhero films.

BvS is like a Faberge ostrich egg breakfast - opulent and stunning to behold (I seriously want high res stills of 75% of the movie), but also unpalatable, hollow and inflated to obscenity.

My observation about the Cinematic DC universe is that the makers don't seem to understand how characters like Superman or Batman fundamentally work and that they can be modified at will or exchanged with another version and still get the same result as if they were their standard counterparts.

In their heavy-handed plan to make Superman appear much darker, more dramatic and angst-ridden character they made him look like a complete dick in MoS, but 3/4ths of the story hinges on him being perceived as a good guy ... I strongly suspect that Snyder picked up on the reactions and tried to play with it and tried to make something clever he never either grasped or was able to put on screen convincingly. In BvS this backfires in many ways, his guilt or innocence is simply established by commentary, not by his actions as anyone prone to jumping to conclusions would probably assume that the guy who wrecked Metropolis might be guilty of blowing up the Hill.

 

[CutThumb]

Well, despite all the negative criticism and perceived angst over storyline and character ,BVS managed to take $170 million in the US, and $424 million worldwide. Not bad for 3 days.

 

[CessnaDriver]

Well, despite all the negative criticism and perceived angst over storyline and character ,BVS managed to take $170 million in the US, and $424 million worldwide. Not bad for 3 days.

No it's not, and in this era badly reviewed films still can blow through to a billion.. It will have to clear I think 800 million as one analyst said to put the studio's mind at ease about launching the whole JL franchise.
If it does launch them, this flavor will continue I would guess. Which if you loved it you're happy, if you don't well you're boned.

 

[Paul Andrew]

I think it's still a big enough event film for all kinds of people to go out and see it, despite the reviews, but I don't see this film having anything like the legs of EpVII or even Avengers. I'll be surprised if it's still playing more than 3-4 times a day in two weeks.

 

[cboath]

No it's not, and in this era badly reviewed films still can blow through to a billion.. It will have to clear I think 800 million as one analyst said to put the studio's mind at ease about launching the whole JL franchise.
If it does launch them, this flavor will continue I would guess. Which if you loved it you're happy, if you don't well you're boned.

Actually, they said that it'd have to get to 800 to break even. They said between actual production costs and marketing costs they'd spent between 400-450M on it and that since tickets are split with theaters, that it'd have to get 850 or so just break even and that if it didn't hit 1 billion it could potentially sink the DCU before it got started.

I don't know how accurate the article was, but if it is, you've got to be a complete moron to try and do a complete universe with it hinging on this hitting a billion. It could very well come close purely on hype, but it sure isn't getting their on quality.

Just using the obvious comparison, most marvel flicks left me wanting more. This flat out did not - outside of wonder woman anyhow. I don't see anyone clamoring for more or saying 'just can't wait til next november', etc. Not that there aren't a handful that aren't, but in most of the other cases, most people were wanting more and excited for the next flick in the mix.

To me, it still goes back to the reason this is being done. The #1 reason it's being done is NOT because they want really want their vision of the DCU on film. It's being done because marvel did it successfully and they're trying to cash in. That may be a good reason, but it doesn't translate to good product usually. And that's not saying Marvel isn't out for money, they are or they wouldn't have made movies or sold rights in the past. Marvel saw what studios were doing with their characters and kept thinking we can do this so much better, then they did it themselves and it worked exceptionally well. Seems as studio suits are still in charge of the DCU and not really DC themselves. I mean, on a DCU perspective, your top 2 characters are batman and superman. They did fine with batman when comparing him to on screen batmans, but it's as if they have no concept of superman at all film or comic. That's not a recipe for success.

 

[dascoyne]

I think DC's next move should be to get Ben Affleck in board as a producer. The man has experience, the vision of a comic fan and the talent to make it a realty and, most of all, the emotional investment to see it done right.
But I'm not holding my breath. Warner studio execs have already shown their reluctance to give over any control or concede to their limitations.

 

[Snikt]

The bummer is that this stupid movie is going to make a ton of money, because everyone in the world is going to see it once and then be like "dear god that was awful". I saw a meme today that had Woody Harrelson from Zombieland crying, then wiping his face with 100 dollar bills saying "WB executives reading bad critic reviews". Totally sums it up. :unsure

 

[Mr Mold Maker]

I saw the film for a second time today and I still don't know how I feel about it. I'm not sure if I liked the movie.. Or the experience.. If that makes sense?

I know one thing for sure.. Ben Affleck is the best live action Batman to date IMO. I am very excited to see his solo films.. Justice League? Not anywhere near as excited.

 

[Lord Boron]

The bummer is that this stupid movie is going to make a ton of money, because everyone in the world is going to see it once and then be like "dear god that was awful". I saw a meme today that had Woody Harrelson from Zombieland crying, then wiping his face with 100 dollar bills saying "WB executives reading bad critic reviews". Totally sums it up. :unsure

Don't blame me, I'm not seeing it. But your 100 percent right. I read all the time fan boys saying "this looks like crap.......but I'm still gong to see it." Hope they enjoy it, because they're going to get more now that it's breaking box office records.

 

[Banner]

I saw the film for a second time today and I still don't know how I feel about it. I'm not sure if I liked the movie.. Or the experience.. If that makes sense?

I know one thing for sure.. Ben Affleck is the best live action Batman to date IMO. I am very excited to see his solo films.. Justice League? Not anywhere near as excited.

I feel exactly the same way you do and I've seen it multiple times as well. There's some REALLY great stuff in here but my overall feeling is I didn't like the sum of all it's parts. I'm excited about solo Batman and WW now more than I was before, but I'm afraid of what a Snyder-helmed Justice League will be like. It'll look great (like his films always do) but the story will be a **** show.

 

[Il Princerino]

I really wanted to love this movie, I really enjoyed Man of Steel, and Ben Affleck's Batman looked great, but at best I thought it was ok. Not terrible, but not all that great either. A lot of the plot seemed really forced. CAUTION IT GETS SPOILERY FROM HERE.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................... I really only have a couple beefs with the movie, but they were big enough to have taken a lot of pleasure out of seeing it. First, I'm supposed to believe that this Batman, who casually kills dozens of people and blows up his share of real estate, is fully against Superman because of the destruction and death that happened when he fought the other Kryptonians. Then we find out that he was only against Superman because he was manipulated by Lex Luthor. Batman, himself a genius, is easily controlled by an obviously unhinged Luthor. Then we have Doomsday. I hate that they wasted that story. Absolutely hated it. They completely wasted the Death of Superman story. First of all they should have saved that for after he was already established, after he was a beloved hero that the people cared about. He was still highly divisive with the population, both within the film and with movie goers. So having him die already really takes away any impact it would have. Add to that, at Clark's funeral, Bruce seems really torn up about it, even though they were only allies for about 10 minutes, certainly not friends.And it could have easily been avoided, Send WW after the spear or just use her sword which was shown to cut DD. No , the "Death of" storyline should have been saved for later. Lex was goofy and didn't fit the rest of the tone and it sucks that he already figured out Supe's and Bats' identity. Unrelated to story, I was sick of Snyder's washed out pallet ten minutes into the movie, it was tolerable in MOS, but it got old real quick.
Now on to the good stuff. Batman(aside from wanton murder) was awesome, Affleck did a great job. And I will give it to Snyder, he did a great job with the look of the characters, they were right out of the comics. And I was pleasantly surprised with Gal Gadot's WW. I admit, I was totally against her casting and her physique, but she pulled it off admirably. When she showed up, I didn't see a skinny model, I saw WonderWoman. And I was worried about them trying to shoehorn the JL into the film, but their introduction was well done, it fit naturally into the narrative and didn't seem forced like I feared it would. And overall the action worked, it was paced well and didn't drag out like the Zod fight in MOS, Snyder definitely knows his way around action set pieces.
Sorry for the long rant, but these are characters I have strong opinions about.

 

[tomheat123]

*WARNING SPOILERS*

Ok so I have a question on one of the dream sequences. So when Bruce "wakes up" from the post apocalyptic scene and the flash travels back in time in what looks like a suit over his flash suit? Was that another dream and or premonition or reality?

 

[Neoproks]

Superman stayed, rather than falling, to hold it in place, or he would have removed it. Wonder Woman can't physically take the same damage.

Again, she can't take his abuse the way Superman can. Liking to fight wouldn't stop her from being killed faster than Superman was.

I'm confused what your basis for this statement is? From what we see in the film, WW can take just as much as Supes during the Doomsday fight. They take similar hits and she stands toe to toe with Doomsday for a while. And besides, Superman was weakened by the kryptonite, so much so that he, uh, DIED. So you're saying WW couldn't wield the spear and kill Doomsday because she isn't as strong as a kryptonite weakened Supes?

Not saying that it should've been as easy as tossing the spear to WW and everyone leaves happy, but your reasoning for why it didn't occur doesn't sit right with me.

 

[annanake]

WW was tearing Doomsday up !
Besides she's killed things from other worlds before . lol