Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)

[Father]

How was that end scene with Luthor, i literally felt embarrassed watching it.. His head wedged between the cell bars and muttering with actual dribble coming out of his mouth... wtf was that... Tell me he didnt watch his performance at the premiere and turn into a beetroot...

IT was bad. And the scene at his party when he's addressing the guest was awkward, uncomfortable. I'm sure that was the intent but was it necessary?

And since when have ppl believed that power can be innocent to the point that its the oldest lie in America?!

Yeah, there was a lot of nonsensical rhetoric, mostly, from Luthor.

Although Batman's logic of "if there's even a 1% chance blah blah blah".... seemed just as ridiculous. Unless he's gone that far dark because Joker killed Robin and he realizes he actually needs to go all the way and kill the bad guys so they can't keep coming back causing more damage... That seems like an outlook that he should have after several movies taking place over year. It just seemed to forced and out of character for him.

At least there are the comics and past superman films that even though the effects now days are cheesy and the plots are weak at best, but at least you still feel the presence of superman while watching them...

~I remember when i believed a man could fly~

So... what did you think of Brandon Routh and Superman Returns? Aside from the costume being kind of weak I thought he was decent.

I go back and watch the Reeve Superman movies and they're good and he embodied the role well, but I like the new Superman. I think because as a kid Superman was innocent and has a very benign feel. I'm older now and I don't see the world the same way. I'm a lot more cynical, untrusting, and bitter. The new Superman seems to embody that more than the innocence of my childhood. I don't think I could take him as serious if he was as naive as he was back then. If that makes him more dark, and not like the character in he comic, then that's fine. I think the New 52 Superman is a lot less like the Silver/Golden Age Superman.

 

[Snikt]

Im telling you, when I watch Captain America, thats how I should feel about Superman. And I totally DO NOT. They dont get the essence of the characters man. I liked Brandon Routh as Superman, but man, he was in the wrong movie. The costume was wrong, the gay undertones suck, and dont EVER put a kid in a super hero movie... :facepalm

Still though. That plane sequence was RAD. I remember squeeeeing in my head when it shows the blip on the radar and the old school music kicks in and Superman saves the day!

Not like Mopey Mcgrimdark over here... dragging a boat through some ice...holding a chain...walking. ***** god. Im surprised this load made as much money as it did...

 

[Nostalgic]

IT was bad. And the scene at his party when he's addressing the guest was awkward, uncomfortable. I'm sure that was the intent but was it necessary?



Yeah, there was a lot of nonsensical rhetoric, mostly, from Luthor.

Although Batman's logic of "if there's even a 1% chance blah blah blah".... seemed just as ridiculous. Unless he's gone that far dark because Joker killed Robin and he realizes he actually needs to go all the way and kill the bad guys so they can't keep coming back causing more damage... That seems like an outlook that he should have after several movies taking place over year. It just seemed to forced and out of character for him.



So... what did you think of Brandon Routh and Superman Returns? Aside from the costume being kind of weak I thought he was decent.

I go back and watch the Reeve Superman movies and they're good and he embodied the role well, but I like the new Superman. I think because as a kid Superman was innocent and has a very benign feel. I'm older now and I don't see the world the same way. I'm a lot more cynical, untrusting, and bitter. The new Superman seems to embody that more than the innocence of my childhood. I don't think I could take him as serious if he was as naive as he was back then. If that makes him more dark, and not like the character in he comic, then that's fine. I think the New 52 Superman is a lot less like the Silver/Golden Age Superman.

I actually liked Routh and when news broke of mos i was hoping they would cast him but make him dark.. I think he would of done great being a darker supes and he hasnt aged badly so he could of pulled it off.. I know the world is shady and reality is dark... The world is not the reality of CR supes,

But, cavill is blankly the same as superman and as clark. In pretty much every scene he is the same even though he seems to try to act out conflict within or genuine concern for the ppl. Its all the same look and expression. I find it impossible to grow attatched to or develop investment into the way he portrays the charachter.. Its far too dull and bleak for superman. And yet it was so easy to get right. Yet is delivered so wrong. Its almost like looking at a bad painting and hoping it will change, but no matter what angle you look at it, its still the same....

Routh could have pulled it off so much better.

I wish i found cavill to be dark and more of our reality like you do... I just find him to be an annoyingly 1 tracked expressionless phoned in disappointing performance..

 

[Mola Rob]

I'm glad Routh was not involved, I was distracted by him playing Christopher Reeve. I think Cavill is fine as Superman. It seems to me a lot of people just can't get into a more serious approach to the character and just want the usual.

 

[Axlotl]

I go back and watch the Reeve Superman movies and they're good and he embodied the role well, but I like the new Superman. I think because as a kid Superman was innocent and has a very benign feel. I'm older now and I don't see the world the same way. I'm a lot more cynical, untrusting, and bitter. The new Superman seems to embody that more than the innocence of my childhood. I don't think I could take him as serious if he was as naive as he was back then. If that makes him more dark, and not like the character in he comic, then that's fine. I think the New 52 Superman is a lot less like the Silver/Golden Age Superman.

See, this is where Zack Snyder F'd up Superman.
Superman ain't for us, man. Superman is for CHILDREN.
Superman is supposed to be a role model for CHILDREN.

There are already brooding anti-heroes for adults (Batman, anyone?)
Snyder practically literally stole candy from babies with what he did to Superman.
Superman would not approve of stealing from babies.
(New Improved Superman would take a walk to the south pole to mope over whether or not it's okay to steal from babies).
I feel sorry for future generations of kids who won't have a Superman to look up to like I did.

HashtagNotMySuperman.

 

[Father]

Superman is supposed to be a role model for CHILDREN.
HashtagNotMySuperman.

I agree.... Superman is supposed to be a role model for children... 1938 children. Have you seen today's children? Would I get in trouble for posting various pictures of emo/goth kid, pageant kid, fat kid, violent/rage video game kid, etc. If you stuck a child from today's society in 1938 they would seem as alien as Superman.

The character has evolved and changed with the times. He didn't have a the same type of enemies in the 1940's that he has in the 2000's.
Yes, at his core he still fights for truth, justice, all that stuff [TRIGGER], but even that ideology has been skewed over the last 70 years.
Truth? When was the last time you saw today's version of the Daily Planet [INSERT YOUR PREFERRED MEDIA OUTLET] tell much truth rather than sensationalist trash.
When was the last time you saw justice dealt [INSERT CYNICAL POLITICAL VIEWS/COMMENTS HERE]?
The American way [INSERT ANOTHER POLITICAL TIRADE HERE]?
The 1938 version of Superman would truly seem alien in today's culture. Great Scott I could get on a soapbox here... but I've been warned already.

Point being... your Superman [the Superman YOU remember when YOU were a child] is not today's children's' Superman.

 

[Mola Rob]

Well put. I enjoyed the pure, heart of gold hero characters such as The Lone Ranger and Superman growing up but as I've grown up I see there is more to the world than black and white.

Man of Steel and BvS do an excellent job of exploring how a man like Superman would fit in our world and it's countless complex beliefs. His beliefs are tested along with his willingness to help a race who don't even seem to want to help themselves.

I for one applaud Goyer, Nolan, and Snyder for the stories they are telling. Too bad many people still seem to want to see Superman rescue a cat stuck in a tree.

 

[astroboy]

Well put. I enjoyed the pure, heart of gold hero characters such as The Lone Ranger and Superman growing up but as I've grown up I see there is more to the world than black and white.

Man of Steel and BvS do an excellent job of exploring how a man like Superman would fit in our world and it's countless complex beliefs. His beliefs are tested along with his willingness to help a race who don't even seem to want to help themselves.

I for one applaud Goyer, Nolan, and Snyder for the stories they are telling. Too bad many people still seem to want to see Superman rescue a cat stuck in a tree.

That's fine. And I understand why today's superman can't make us feel like 1938.

But how come chris evan's captain america does such a good job of it? He is the pure definition of uncynical heroicism, yet also having a lot to say about today's world.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Nostalgic]

I agree.... Superman is supposed to be a role model for children... 1938 children. Have you seen today's children? Would I get in trouble for posting various pictures of emo/goth kid, pageant kid, fat kid, violent/rage video game kid, etc. If you stuck a child from today's society in 1938 they would seem as alien as Superman.

The character has evolved and changed with the times. He didn't have a the same type of enemies in the 1940's that he has in the 2000's.
Yes, at his core he still fights for truth, justice, all that stuff [TRIGGER], but even that ideology has been skewed over the last 70 years.
Truth? When was the last time you saw today's version of the Daily Planet [INSERT YOUR PREFERRED MEDIA OUTLET] tell much truth rather than sensationalist trash.
When was the last time you saw justice dealt [INSERT CYNICAL POLITICAL VIEWS/COMMENTS HERE]?
The American way [INSERT ANOTHER POLITICAL TIRADE HERE]?
The 1938 version of Superman would truly seem alien in today's culture. Great Scott I could get on a soapbox here... but I've been warned already.

Point being... your Superman [the Superman YOU remember when YOU were a child] is not today's children's' Superman.

Yes yhat was well put. But he is not TODAY'S childrens superman though... Today's children find the mos and b v s to be boring and lame... So is today's superman connecting with today's children ?? NO! And its not because they made a remake of yesterday's superman because they didnt! Its because they completely F'd it up and cavill cant play super. I don't think many fans are upset over not seeing a "cat" saved from a tree. We all want dark, even the kids, but we want it done right, or atleast half right. My kid favours DC, reads comics and plays DC vs Marvel game and always favours the DC charachters, he will sit through the entirety of any modern Marvel film and enjoy it. Both mos and b v s he picked up his galaxy and chose to play shark world instead. He started to root for bats to rip apart supes and supes was once his fav. As sad as it is for me to say, him and his friends think the cavill supes is G followed by the a and y, and they obviously use that word in place of lame...

Even as a mentioned about the toy line. Empty bat shelves or only a few lingering. Supes is packed untouched looking all cavill in the aisles. Today's superman for today's children ?? I think not..

Its not about saving cats from trees its about getting it right. But getting something so easy to get right but instead you get it wrong, it comes off insulting to the adult fan just as much as the child fan..

Supes can be dark but he is also genuine.. cavill plays a forced dark and packs ZERO in coming off genuine.. Kids see straight through that BS and when you add a crapy story and a crapy plot, well, the legecy of what you put to the fans, adult or child will speak for itself....

 

[Mektar]

I actually like cavill as superman and hence im gald they will actually make a new stand alone superman. For me the problem is more with the scripts so far rather then the actor portraying the character (which i actually like) and pretty sure he is still a better role model to kids then justin bieber

While still very young, the face on my sons face whenever he sees clips of cavill's superman from MoS are what i was like when watching my superman

 

[JD]

Superman is for everyone.

 

[Father]

Yes yhat was well put. But he is not TODAY'S childrens superman though... Today's children find the mos and b v s to be boring and lame... So is today's superman connecting with today's children ?? NO! And its not because they made a remake of yesterday's superman because they didnt! Its because they completely F'd it up and cavill cant play super. I don't think many fans are upset over not seeing a "cat" saved from a tree. We all want dark, even the kids, but we want it done right, or atleast half right. My kid favours DC, reads comics and plays DC vs Marvel game and always favours the DC charachters, he will sit through the entirety of any modern Marvel film and enjoy it. Both mos and b v s he picked up his galaxy and chose to play shark world instead. He started to root for bats to rip apart supes and supes was once his fav. As sad as it is for me to say, him and his friends think the cavill supes is G followed by the a and y, and they obviously use that word in place of lame...

Even as a mentioned about the toy line. Empty bat shelves or only a few lingering. Supes is packed untouched looking all cavill in the aisles. Today's superman for today's children ?? I think not..

Its not about saving cats from trees its about getting it right. But getting something so easy to get right but instead you get it wrong, it comes off insulting to the adult fan just as much as the child fan..

Supes can be dark but he is also genuine.. cavill plays a forced dark and packs ZERO in coming off genuine.. Kids see straight through that BS and when you add a crapy story and a crapy plot, well, the legecy of what you put to the fans, adult or child will speak for itself....

I blame Warner/DC for having no clue how to use their properties. It's hard NOT to keep defaulting back to Marvel... although the DC character TV shows are better than the movies. The Flash is a fantastic show. Smallville was fun although I've yet to watch the series in its entirety. The animated movies are better than the live action movies... but everyone one of them has put me to sleep by the climax.

Kids are hard to please these days. Violence and destruction is appealing, but there still needs to be some substance. They can watch things getting smashed on YouTube.

Empty toys on the shelves... Blame the merchandising companies for making too many of them. I thought grown-up collectors were as much the target demographic as kids. Do kids still play with action figures? My sons have been on Transformers and Legos since the beginning. They never really got into action figures.

Cavill isn't bad. He's not as vacant as Keanu Reeves, but he's not as charismatic as other actors playing comic book characters.

But how come chris evan's captain america does such a good job of it? He is the pure definition of uncynical heroicism, yet also having a lot to say about today's world.Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

You're comparing apples and oranges.
Different character. Different writing. Different directing. Marvel FTW as usual.
Cap is FROM the 30s (born during then 30's anyway). He actually comes from that period and is thrown into today's society. Most of the issues he has with the world today are based on value and ethics from the time he came from.

 

[Nostalgic]

^^ Very Very True!! Both quotes...

If only they could bottle up half the magic from the TV shows..

I have storage full of transformers from masterpiece to go bots... My kid loves the one stepers lol..

Not many good figures were made for the adult or child collector when it comes to the toy line from the actual movies, aside from hot toys and they aren't exactly kid friendly because of the price tag attatched... The DC 6" figures are pretty good value for getting knocked around but they too are fairly pricey for what you get....

 

[Sundowner]

Batfleck just posted this badass clip of Deathstroke!

https://mobile.twitter.com/axial_sk...8?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

 

[DINVADER]

Is there a concensus on what "Getting it done right" is. :rolleyes

 

[dascoyne]

In my heart of hearts I still think a really nerdy, socially inept Clark Kent in a cynical world is a lot "edgier" to represent in a film. It's certainly a lot more interesting than what we've got. A traditional Superman is the ultimate metaphor for the power of good and righteousness over an entire world of evil. The Donner Superman was in that vein and I think it can actually be done so much better today with even more terrifying representations of evil. Is it going to be another 20 years before someone at Warner/DC comes to their senses and gives us this?

 

[Fawbish]

We have a "nerdy" Clark Kent - without seeing an entire day of work with him, Perry tells us how Clark is viewed at work. We have a good natured Clark Kent who fights for what is right for all people and believes the Daily Planet is a viable method of doing so.

The only real thing thats "missing" is the bumbling nature - the socially inept part. I could appreciate a take on this done well, but when is the line drawn where the character facet is only there for comedic purpose, or there for a higher reason? I'm trying to think what story reason that this Clark would become bumbling. (but I assume you mean it would be something already established in Man of Steel etc so that it isnt just weird when he starts at the Planet?)

Kill Bill 2 hits it pretty well with Bills speech, from a cynical point of view. The bumbling nature of Clark Kent is Superman's representation of us, his way of fitting in because that is how he sees us. And I don't like that at all - very jaded viewpoint. The other side of the coin is just a good natured guy (which we have) who bumbles around and knocks into things, just so that the audience can have the occasional wink and a laugh...not too keen on that either. I'm not opposed to change or different interpretations though, so it'd be interesting to see if there are any ideas of how this might be pulled off? Is the standard reason "to fit in" still relevant?

- - - Updated - - -

Batfleck just posted this badass clip of Deathstroke!

https://mobile.twitter.com/axial_sk...8?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

I dont even know what this is but it looks friggin' sick.

 

[KrangPrime]

I blame Warner/DC for having no clue how to use their properties. It's hard NOT to keep defaulting back to Marvel... although the DC character TV shows are better than the movies. The Flash is a fantastic show. Smallville was fun although I've yet to watch the series in its entirety. The animated movies are better than the live action movies... but everyone one of them has put me to sleep by the climax.

flash is the only one i enjoy outright with no or little complaints.

I havn't checked out legends of tommorow yet, but it looks like too much too soon. should have been done when the others have finished.
Arrow is a case of not getting a character right for me. it looks too dark and depressing in the previews so i skipped it.
Supergirl has the POTENTIAL to be good. the lead actress is the right person for that job...but her writing that she's given is horrible (that last scene where the manhunter is forgiven in the finale read like fan fiction!) and the girl power message is off putting to me....simply because more people are treated equal these days than say, in the 80s that I don't think it's needed as heavy handidly. messages ruins the fun.

Smallville....I can't believe I stuck with that show for so long. dissapointing battles. plot points that never got resolved or expanded on (the mysterious caves? clarks ship making someone pregnant IIRC? 'Original' lex being killed by arrow and magically re appearing in the finale? Short battles that took all episode or season and end in 2 minutes?) it was basically a depressing soap opera with some superman elements. a shame though, cause like supergirl, I like the cast. The most emotional moment of that series just kind of fell flat, and that was his dead father hanging him the suit they've been building all season toward, and we don't even get a quick cut away hero shot of him in the suit, saying fairwell to his father and past, and blasting off to be superman. that was the first mishandling of a property by DC, I think, but sadly not the last. A shame though, cause it could have been so much more.


it's funny. i have the extended version of batman v Superman sitting on my amazon video waiting to be watched for a month or so now. .... and i have no desire to relive this horrid movie. same goes for man of steel. the only ones i'm curious on seeing again is the nolan trilogy.

 

[Snikt]

We have a "nerdy" Clark Kent - without seeing an entire day of work with him, Perry tells us how Clark is viewed at work. We have a good natured Clark Kent who fights for what is right for all people and believes the Daily Planet is a viable method of doing so.

The only real thing thats "missing" is the bumbling nature - the socially inept part. I could appreciate a take on this done well, but when is the line drawn where the character facet is only there for comedic purpose, or there for a higher reason? I'm trying to think what story reason that this Clark would become bumbling. (but I assume you mean it would be something already established in Man of Steel etc so that it isnt just weird when he starts at the Planet?)

Kill Bill 2 hits it pretty well with Bills speech, from a cynical point of view. The bumbling nature of Clark Kent is Superman's representation of us, his way of fitting in because that is how he sees us. And I don't like that at all - very jaded viewpoint. The other side of the coin is just a good natured guy (which we have) who bumbles around and knocks into things, just so that the audience can have the occasional wink and a laugh...not too keen on that either. I'm not opposed to change or different interpretations though, so it'd be interesting to see if there are any ideas of how this might be pulled off? Is the standard reason "to fit in" still relevant?

- - - Updated - - -




I dont even know what this is but it looks friggin' sick.

Wearing glasses doesnt make you "nerdy". Thats what you dont get about superman/clark kent. Its misdirection. Its to throw people off into thinking "there is no way bumbling oaf clark kent could ever be Superman". Thats the point of his secret identity, and hiding in plain sight. The take away from the Kill Bill speech, is that Superman is who he is, and doesnt identify with Clark Kent, thats just his alter ego. Not the other way around. Being a klutz doesnt make you socially inept either. Socially inept is actually not being able to talk to people in a social environment or scared of being rejected or ridiculed. Thats not what Clark does, or is what his goal is. The point is...for the other people to never think that he is Superman. But there was barely enough Superman in the story to justify not doing it. Clark is portrayed as a moron in BvS. Can you imagine walking up to someone and them not knowing who Bill Gates was? Same thing with Clark not knowing who Bruce Wayne is. Its funny cause he is supposed to be a reporter. :lol

"Fitting in" will always be relevant and relatable. Especially for an alien from another planet that has super powers thats trying to do some good in the world, and actually make it a better place. For the most part that is.

 

[Fawbish]

Wearing glasses doesnt make you "nerdy". Thats what you dont get about superman/clark kent. Its misdirection. Its to throw people off into thinking "there is no way bumbling oaf clark kent could ever be Superman". Thats the point of his secret identity, and hiding in plain sight. The take away from the Kill Bill speech, is that Superman is who he is, and doesnt identify with Clark Kent, thats just his alter ego. Not the other way around. Being a klutz doesnt make you socially inept either. Socially inept is actually not being able to talk to people in a social environment or scared of being rejected or ridiculed. Thats not what Clark does, or is what his goal is. The point is...for the other people to never think that he is Superman. But there was barely enough Superman in the story to justify not doing it. Clark is portrayed as a moron in BvS. Can you imagine walking up to someone and them not knowing who Bill Gates was? Same thing with Clark not knowing who Bruce Wayne is. Its funny cause he is supposed to be a reporter. :lol

"Fitting in" will always be relevant and relatable. Especially for an alien from another planet that has super powers thats trying to do some good in the world, and actually make it a better place. For the most part that is.

I'd say a far better way of misdirection (which I fully understand why that persona exists in some of the comics and shows, and I do "get it", thanks) is to be utterly normal and balanced. Just a part of the white noise of the office environment. DCEU Clark is this to an extent but he sticks his head above often enough and causes Perry to get annoyed, so clearly he can't stick to that path either. I also understand the concept of being socially inept...I was merely echoing Dascoyne's words as I knew what he meant.

I never said wearing glasses makes you nerdy :behave within the film they showcase Perry's opinion of Clark at multiple points (extended cut more so)

DCEU Clark has spent a lot of his adult life backpacking and working random jobs in remote locations - people at the planet refer to him as Smallville still (and the usual intepretation there is that there is a small town knowledge base/comes from a smaller area and is here in the big city etc). If he's never come across Waynetech stuff before on a case or otherwise, why should he have to know who Bruce Wayne is, and by sight??

Do you think your average reporter would recognise Tim Cook as they stepped out of a car? Perhaps. Warren Buffet? Maybe. Jeff Bezos? Doubt it. A reporter only two years into a job that is moved around various stories multiple times (that's a story weakness I think, but I'm not fully au fait with newspaper stuff) who is told to cover sports, and only to cover the Gala thing because he's specifically requested?

Do you know who Oh-Hyun Kwon is without googling? I reckon you can't, and that an average person can't (CEO of Samsung Electronics, btw, 2nd biggest tech company in the US behind Apple so google tells me)

Why would you assume Bruce Wayne is in the same fame bracket as Bill Gates? Warren Buffet and Jeff Bezos are another of the few richest people in America too if thats the angle, dya think average people would recognize them on sight? We don't actually know a ton about Bruce Wayne and how he's known to the public in the DCEU now that I'm thinking about it.

Clark is much more like an average person than someone who has spent their lives in the pursuit of stories to write, note making about rich/famous/celebrities/let them eat cake folks as far as I can see over the past two films. Does it make him moronic? Nah. Not even taking into account that his spare time is spent saving people and maintaining a relationship.

I agree fitting in has to stay relevant really, yeah. They could do with exploring the fitting in aspect on a more personal level (day to day stuff). Though they did go through a lot of that in his childhood and being an outcast in Man of Steel.

I'd like to see a more personal interaction between Clark as a reporter (if they bring him back) and his co-workers, and see if he really does just act completely normally around them. And if so, just see a few of those work relationships explored perhaps.