Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

batguy said:
True. The supporters have not shown any overt displeasure with him yet AFAIK.

But that may change as more stuff comes out. I have a hard time imagining that there won't be pissed off donors..
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Oh, believe me, there are already tons of pissed off donors. In fact, there are several groups on Facebook started by or consisting of pissed off donors. Including those who were kicked out of the official Axanar donor group (access to which was promised them as part of their donation) simply for asking Alec and the production tough questions about the project and the money.

Similarly, on the Kickstarter project page, so many donors started raising a stink and demanding refunds after these latest disclosures that Axanar started spamming the comments page with multiple – and I'm talking 20 or 30 in a row – postings of the exact same statement just to force the criticism down out of visibility on the page. Then, when Kickstarter started rightfully deleting all of his spam posts, he then resorted to forcing refunds on donors – not because he felt they deserve the money back, but because, if he gave them a refund, they could no longer post comments on the Kickstarter project page. (This after his failed attempt to condition any refunds on the donor signing a nondisclosure agreement which prohibited them from discussing Axanar in any public forum.)

Do you see a trend here? If you go into any official Axanar group and see continued support, a lot of that "optics" is due to the simple fact that Axanar silences and exiles most donors who ask tough questions. So those groups are generally echo chambers at this point.

M
 
mkstewartesq said:
Oh, believe me, there are already tons of pissed off donors. In fact, there are several groups on Facebook started by or consisting of pissed off donors. Including those who were kicked out of the official Axanar donor group (access to which was promised them as part of their donation) simply for asking Alec and the production tough questions about the project and the money.

Similarly, on the Kickstarter project page, so many donors started raising a stink and demanding refunds after these latest disclosures that Axanar started spamming the comments page with multiple – and I'm talking 20 or 30 in a row – postings of the exact same statement just to force the criticism down out of visibility on the page. Then, when Kickstarter started rightfully deleting all of his spam posts, he then resorted to forcing refunds on donors – not because he felt they deserve the money back, but because, if he gave them a refund, they could no longer post comments on the Kickstarter project page. (This after his failed attempt to condition any refunds on the donor signing a nondisclosure agreement which prohibited them from discussing Axanar in any public forum.)

Do you see a trend here? If you go into any official Axanar group and see continued support, a lot of that "optics" is due to the simple fact that Axanar silences and exiles most donors who ask tough questions. So those groups are generally echo chambers at this point.

M
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Wow. To paraphrase Shakespeare (poorly), what a piece of work is that man. So glad I never gave him any money. That guy just set his life on fire. It's gonna burn for years.
 
Wow.

I assumed there were probably at least some scattered complaints by now. But I didn't know how much work was being put into silencing all the gripes on a mass scale.
 
That's just it. AP seems like one of those guys who perpetually gets away with crooked stuff. It would be a pleasant surprise to see an a**hole like him getting nailed to the wall and financially ruined for a change.
 
batguy said:
That's just it. AP seems like one of those guys who perpetually gets away with crooked stuff. It would be a pleasant surprise to see an a**hole like him getting nailed to the wall and financially ruined for a change.
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I don't think there's any doubt about that this time around.
 
The thing is, guys like that eventually run out of rope. No matter how long their run is, eventually, they take it too far and either disappear altogether, or they get nailed. There are people who have been scammers within this community and, while they can manage to survive for a while, eventually the wheels fall off.

With something like this, I'd say the wheels are on fire now. I mean, you have to consider what's actually going on.

1. One of the biggest media companies in the world has trained the sights of its legal team on Peters, and is actively pursuing a copyright infringement lawsuit against him. One which he is basically unable to win.

1a. In the course of that lawsuit -- which is a matter of public record -- facts are being discovered and disclosed about how Peters ran his business and what he did with the money donors gave him.

2. Once the IP lawsuit is concluded -- likely with a very unfavorable settlement, or indeed a judgment (probably a JMOL, at this point) -- there will likely be ample evidence to support a class action suit by donors against him.

3. Depending on what's proven in that case, Peters faces exposure for fraud charges by a state attorney general (or multiple attorneys general, considering that he operated across state lines), or could face federal wire fraud charges. Granted, fraud requires proving intent, which is a pretty steep hill to climb, but we're talking a case in the +$1M range, so it's not exactly the kind of chump change charge that, say, someone ripping people off for a replica blaster pistol might face.

Bottom line, Peters may have managed to skate away in the past, but there's really nothing other than the kindness of his donors to save him once the IP lawsuit is settled. Donors could, conceivably, go after personal assets to obtain restitution (since he clearly mingled them with his business), and any state law enforcement agency for a state where he had donors could go after him for fraud (although CA would probably be the best choice, as the nexus of the fraud). Likewise with the feds. And, of course, there's nothing stopping the filing of both state and federal charges against him.
 
I would like to think they always run out of rope eventually but life experience says otherwise.

I can think of at least 4 or 5 people right off the top of my head who have made a nice comfy living doing crooked stuff. People I have come across personally, not strangers in news stories. I know for a fact that at least two of them have been doing it for literally decades. And they aren't even very careful about picking their crimes or targets. They just recklessly go around burning people every chance they get and the law never really catches up with them. Even if they go to jail eventually, it will probably be for 5% of what they have stolen after they lived high on the hog for a big portion of their lives.



Whatever. I'm getting all philosophical.


It's just nice to see a known chronic-offender getting nailed really hard for a change.
 
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Question: how much is this going to hurt the actors, at least with Paramount? Tony Todd, JG Hertzler, etc. have worked for them before. Are they going to be persona non grata, or can they sincerely make the case that they thought this was "just another fan film?"
 
It will not hurt the Actors they did'nt know what a lunatic they were dealing with but some did find out ie Tony Todd
 
iirc A holes typical behavior, Tony called him out on something and Alec accused Tony of not being able to read at all especially a script, quick paraphrase here. :unsure
 
Apollo said:
iirc A holes typical behavior, Tony called him out on something and Alec accused Tony of not being able to read at all especially a script, quick paraphrase here. :unsure
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Tony left the project before the lawsuit hit (of course, Alec neglected to notify the public that Tony was no longer involved because – hey, still need money rolling in.). The folks at Axanar have a tendency to turn on their own – meaning that you are their best friend until you challenge them, then they orchestrate a teardown campaign and attack you personally. In Tony's case, he left the project because he sensed that something was not right and, furthermore, felt that he could not act with an amateur (Alec) in the lead; Tony stated both of these things on Twitter. Once that became public, Alec started spreading the story that Tony was difficult to work with and was asking for way too much money for a "fan film" (remember, a fan film that raised $1.5 million and repeatedly has stated that it is "not a fan film but rather a professional production.")

As far as the history of orchestrated teardown campaigns see, for example, Christian Gossett - Director of the Prelude to Axanar short that got all the attention. Once he left the main film – largely because he did not agree with what was going on and believe that the production was wasting a ton of money on building a studio rather than simply renting one, Axanar quickly started the story that Christian had done almost nothing on the short film, wasted everyone's time and, was the one who actually pushed Alec to build a studio. Christian's depositions in the current lawsuit say exactly otherwise. Same for Tommy Kraft, VFX wizard – he left the production and show that he could create a full length, incredibly professional looking Star Trek fan film for $50,000 (Horizons) - when the views for that film exceeded the views for Prelude, Alec started spreading the story that Tommy only had hits because he purchased YouTube views. The same thing has happened with other various staff members and special-effects artists who are also primarily responsible for how good that short film looked. In short, anyone who donated to the main film based on the expectation that it would be up to the quality of Prelude was going to be sadly disappointed, as most of the people responsible for the quality of the short film – both in front of and behind the cameras – left the project before the lawsuit was filed.

As far as whether this will affect any actors – most of them were smart enough to jump ship either before or at the time the lawsuit was filed and have not mentioned it again. The notable exceptions being Richard Hatch and JG Hertzler. But, in all candor, I don't think there is much of a career left for either of those two to worry about ruining anymore anyhow. Richard Hatch is already burning bridges in Hollywood not only by supporting this project but trying to take the same " independent professional film" approach to the BSG franchise (again) which will put him on a direct collision course with the property owners of that franchise. Hertzler - well, and I understand your opinion may differ – I personally have zero respect for that guy not only because he seems to be a bit of a flake but his main career moves of late have been appearing in make up at conventions to reprise his old character.

M
 
Paramount didn't even include the other author of the screenplay in their suit against AP. It's him they want to fry. I wouldn't expect much collateral damage to the other players, especially if they had shown any signs of jumping ship or dissatisfaction with AP.
 
I smell blood and so do the Sharks at Paramount!

I hope there is nothing left when they get done!! :lol
 
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